From Sabbath TO Sunday!

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[Terabitten]

I can’t believe we’re even having this discussion.

The Bible says: “One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks” (Rom. 14:5-6).

Cased closed.

[safisoft]

but a credible non-Christian source detailed the early Christian practice of gathering in the morning on the first day of the week sinning and prating together and then after work gathering and having the Lord's Supper, which was a part of the Agape Feast. If worshiping on Saturday versus Sunday was so critical why did the earliest Christian churches do this?

First, you must provide a reference to your "non-Christian sources" and next, you must define what "earliest Christian churches" means. If you mean those in the Second Century, you have no argument. If you mean those in the First Century, you have no such proof. Only Scripture stands in in that regard, there is no such extant text. If, on the other hand you want to show how the Gentile "churches" began to deviate from the Apostles' teachings, as Papias tells us that they did (100 CE), then by all means, cite away.

The most complete scholarly piece written to-date, using the Vatican's own library, was done by Samuele Bacchiocchi. His work sheds complete (non-sectarian) light on the matter. The title is From Sabbath to Sunday : A Historical Investigation of the Rise of Sunday Observance in Early Christianity

[big'ol_freeper]

Constantine changed it

Absolutely false. The writings of the first Christians show that it was changed during apostolic times and has been the tradition of the Church since then...well before Constantine.

[wmfights]

It’s pretty simple. The commandment designates Saturday as the day of worship, and nothing in the scripture ever changed that.

Why then didn't the earliest Christian churches do that then. They met on the morning of the first day of the week and then regathered after work and had the Lord's Supper.

Constantine changed it because he wanted to unify the Christian and pagan worlds under Rome.

When the Roman aristocrats began to dominate the Christian churches in Rome and Constantine saw it as a tool to unite the empire a lot of things happened. The point I'm trying to get across is that prior to this the accepted practice was to gather on Sunday morning and then again Sunday evening.

Pliny the Younger was commissioned by Trajan to investigate Christians because they were growing in number and pagans were making complaints against them. Numerous Christians were martyred during the interrogations, but among the data that was gleaned was when services were held. The investigation was done around 110-114 AD, just after the end of the Apostolic Era, but a couple hundred years before a govt backed hierarchy was established.

[safisoft]

The Bible says: “One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks” (Rom. 14:5-6).

Please read Romans 14:1. The issue is over "doubtful matters" - the fact is, when Paul wrote this, there was NO doubt about the Sabbath. Sadly, you do not have the context of what Paul was even talking about. The First Century believers were dealing with issues of Oral Law. The Roman congregation was 50% Jewish, and if Paul had said that the Sabbath was a "doubtful matter" he couldn't have later said in Acts 28:17, "My brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our ancestors..."

Rather, Paul is addressing something in Romans 14 virtually unknown in Christian circles, that is quite evident when you study First Century Judaism: the "Eighteen Measures" and "Avodah Zerah." In the First Century, these were rulings that were matters of dispute within the Judaisms of the day (some of the disciples of Hillel had been murdered over them in 20 BCE). When you study the context, you will learn there is much more to what Paul said than you are willing to simply brush off with, "nothing see here, move on."

Paul is the most-misquoted writer. It has been happening since early on:

...our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2Peter 3:15b-16

[safisoft]

Absolutely false. The writings of the first Christians show that it was changed during apostolic times and has been the tradition of the Church since then...well before Constantine.

Proof? Nada. Zip. If by "well-before Constantine" you mean 100 years, OK. If you mean "First Century" you are left completely hanging with no corraborating text. Have you even read Clement I?

[Petronski]

Please. Prove that.

All you need do is read the New Testament or any history book.

[Petronski]

The Roman congregation was 50% Jewish...

But 100% Christian (the Catholic Church).

[wmfights]

First, you must provide a reference to your "non-Christian sources" and next, you must define what "earliest Christian churches" means.

See Pliny letters.

Pliny is hardly a supporter of Christianity, being a Roman legate and having killed numerous Christians when interrogating them. He would have no reason to lie as to Christian religious practices.

I'm surprised you would want a definition of earliest Christian churches. I mean those assemblies of Christians who gathered together to worship and celebrate The Gospel.

Maybe it's time for you to explain why the legalism of having services on Saturday is so critical when there is secular evidence that our brothers and sisters in Christ during Apostolic Era and the centuries immediately following did not do that.

[big'ol_freeper]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1806220/posts

[Diego1618]

It's an interesting argument, but a credible non-Christian source detailed the early Christian practice of gathering in the morning on the first day of the week sinning and prating together and then after work gathering and having the Lord's Supper, which was a part of the Agape Feast.

Cite?

If worshiping on Saturday versus Sunday was so critical why did the earliest Christian churches do this?

Please show me where they worshiped on Sunday. You obviously can't from scripture because every passage that the translators have translated as "First Day of the Week" actually says in the Greek....."On one of the Sabbaths" or is related to the Sabbath. That's the whole point! [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2-9][Luke 24:1][John 20:1][Acts 20:6-7][I Corinthians 16:2]. Show me in the Greek where any one of these scriptures is properly translated "First day of the week'!

[AnalogReigns]

The fanatics that argue violently on this thread show their own disregard of holy Scripture.

Diego et al. have yet to answer the plain meaning of the Apostle Paul to the Colossians where he COMMANDS:

“Therefore don’t let anyone judge you in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day. These are a shadow of what was to come; the substance is the Messiah.” (Col. 2:16, 17)

Many of these same folks no doubt deny the holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (since the word “trinity” is itself not in the bible), and ultimately the full divinity of Jesus Christ—and are convinced the light of the gospel was pretty well extinguished from AD 325 to the 1800s (poor pitiful Holy Spirit just couldn’t keep it going, eh? Wasn’t very “good news” since the devil prevailed for over 1000 years, eh?)— much like the LDS and other cults think.

Jesus saves, not the Law. Those who try to live by the law, will be killed by it... Thanks be to God the Holy Spirit frees us to live as God the Father wants in the light and power of the Resurrection of Jesus...on Sunday.

[Dog Gone]

Absolutely false. The writings of the first Christians show that it was changed during apostolic times and has been the tradition of the Church since then...well before Constantine.

Who changed it?

Based on what authority?

If we have a church writing something for 100 years can it alter the Commandments?

If it is a tradition to worship idols, does that change the Commandments?

Constantine did formalize something which had been going on previously, but sanctioning something that is contrary to scripture is not an amendment to the scripture.

[Diego1618]

Why then didn't the earliest Christian churches do that then. They met on the morning of the first day of the week and then regathered after work and had the Lord's Supper.

Can you show me where it says this in scripture?

[wmfights]

Please show me where they worshiped on Sunday.

Besides the secular sources already given, read:

ICor. 11:21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk.

What was happening was on Sunday evening when they regathered the more affluent Christians were eating and drinking prior to the poorer Christians who could not come until later. The poor came and were only left with a symbolic (small) portion.

22. Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing?...

[Diego1618]

Please read Romans 14:1. The issue is over "doubtful matters"

Good points.....and I would add.....a major factor in these disputes was vegetarianism.....and who should or should not participate (verses 2-3) and on which days they should fast (verse 6).

Paul speaks not of Sabbath days in these passages. The Greek is "HEMERA"....an ordinary day. If Paul had been speaking of Sabbath days, the term used would have been SABBATON. This chapter in Romans has nothing to do with God's Feast Days or Sabbaths and this is why people should familiarize themselves with Hebrew and Greek if they are to study the scriptures.

[Petronski]

The crowd defending the article at the top of this thread are indeed anti-Trinitarian.

[Petronski]

Constantine did formalize something which had been going on previously, but sanctioning something that is contrary to scripture is not an amendment to the scripture.

Good thing St. Constantine did not sanction something that is contrary to Scripture.

[big'ol_freeper]

The authority comes from Christ who gave the Apostles the authority to loose and bind.

[Diego1618]

Maybe it's time for you to explain why the legalism of having services on Saturday is so critical when there is secular evidence that our brothers and sisters in Christ during Apostolic Era and the centuries immediately following did not do that.

You call it legalism when folks continue to honor God's appointed times [Leviticus 23:44] and Sabbaths....but when folks observe holidays and religious festivals invented by mankind.....that's simply O.K.? ......I got it!

Yeah.....who does He think He is, anyway? Asking us to observe all these legalistic Old Testament Feast Days and Sabbaths. After all.....He did tell us to not do it anymore, didn't He? Oh.....here it is....[I Papacy 1:11]. Read it aloud! "Do not honor God anymore by observing His Holy Days and Sabbaths. Instead honor the Church of Rome and all our Pomp and Tradition."

I knew I could find it.