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Why Can't (Roman) Catholic Priests Get Married?
Black Cordelias ^

Posted on 12/27/2008 3:43:47 PM PST by NYer

Why Can’t Catholic Priests Get Married?


To answer this question I am posting a discussion I had in the comments section of Priesthood of all Believers.

Peter’s style in the comments section was casual/IM…thus, without punctuation or capitalizations. This is normal in those venues and does NOT mean he doesn’t know how to punctuate or capitalize. I didn’t make all of the corrections needed to make his comments and questions formally correct b/c it would have been a lot of work. I thought he had very good and honest questions, representative of the questions many people have so I decided to put them in a post. So, here is our discussion:

Peter: i think you are dead right about presbyters (being the word translated “priest” in English). that is why some are placed into positions of leadership (like james the just or peter and paul, etc). however, these leadership positions are extensively talked about by paul in timothy and other places. in timothy, paul says that presbyters are to be husbands of but one wife and their kids are to be respectful because if they cant control their family they cant control the church.

so now tell me, how can a claim be made that presbyters are supposed to be celibate? there is no mandate that presbyters are celibate. in fact, the exact opposite. paul says that they should marry if they cant control their passions.

BFHU:

You are absolutely correct. There is no Biblical mandate that Priests are to be celibate. In fact, we know since Peter had a mother-in-law that he must have been married, at some point. The normal discipline of priestly celibacy could be changed to allow priests to marry. Celibacy is a discipline in the Latin Rite Catholic Church it is not an unchangeable doctrine or dogma. Eating fish on Fridays, similarly, was a discipline in the Church but it was changed and priestly celibacy might be changed, could be changed, theoretically. But it probably will not be changed any time soon. So disciplines can change but dogma does not change.

There are many good reasons to keep celibacy but the best is because the celibate Priest most closely models Jesus Christ, who was celibate. He also, stands in Persona Christi in most of the sacraments and since in Heaven there will be no marriage, the priest also models life in the age to come. In the Eastern Orthodox churches and even some non Latin rite Catholic Churches married men are ordained to the priesthood. But the married ones cannot become Bishops. And people in these churches prefer the unmarried priests to the married ones for the obvious reason that an unmarried priest can be married to the Church as he is called to be, and a more available father. But they must marry before ordination; they cannot afterwards marry. And in the Latin Rite Catholic Church Deacons can be married but if their wife dies they may not remarry. These are the disciplines of ordination.

Peter: so why should we discount the ministry of a man simply because he has chosen marriage?

BFHU: The ministry of a man who marries is not discounted by the Church. It is his vocation just like priesthood is a vocation. The married man is purified through his marriage and models the loving union of the Trinity-Man/Woman/child. The fruitfulness of their love brings new life. And he fulfills his priesthood of believers by being:

a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

And the priest, also, is purified through the difficulties of his vocation. The fruitfulness of of the Priest’s love of the bride of Christ brings new life, born for eternity in Heaven.

Peter: dont we learn many otherwise impossible lessons through oneness with our wives? isnt that why JB, JC, and paul all spoke of the relationship between man and wife as an allegory for Christ and the church?

BFHU: Absolutely accurate there! Thank you for your polite and excellent questions.

Peter: thanks for the response. i agree with you about your points, minus one problematic thing i have always disagreed with the church on. why if the word presbyter is the only word for “priest” do we think that now a priest SHOULD NOT be married.

BFHU: It is not a matter of “should not” but it is a matter of discipline for those who wish to shepherd the church of God, to give up marriage and family in order to devote all attention to the Bride of Christ. The Church does not forbid marriage to any one. All who feel called to the vocation of marriage are free to marry. Part of the discernment for the priesthood is, Am I willing? Am I able to give up marriage? Most are not called to the priesthood. It is a gift.

I Cor 7:1 It is good for a man not to marry…An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs —how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided.”

Peter: i understand there are some whom God calls to live celebate lives, but most of us burn with passion if we arent married.

And as St. Paul said, ” it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

BFHU:Very true and then they should marry but as Jesus said….

Matthew 19:12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Peter:

besides that we are supposed to follow Tradition as it is passed down to us. the very earliest traditions (not only in the New Testament, but also in church history) there were many priests and bishops who were married.

BFHU: Please read I Cor 7 and realize that the Catholic Church takes Paul’s advice much more literally than most Protestants. The New Testament is the earliest Tradition. And we follow it. The Catholic Church still has married priests and celibate priests. The unmarried more closely follow the example of Christ in this matter.

Peter: so what do you do with the fact that peter (and others seemed to be married)? peter, according to the catholic church, is the first pope. what a precedent to set for popes who have the “discipline” of celebacy. we are to go by tradition, the church just seems to pick and choose which traditions it likes.

BFHU: Have you done any research to understand how and why the Church has made the decisions she has? I have experienced over and over thinking, “OK, now there can’t be a good explanation for this! But, once I looked into it, the explanation was beautiful and absolutely sublime. For instance, when a Jewish Levitcal Priest was chosen to go into the Holy of Holies,as Zecharia father of John the Baptist was, they had to remain celibate for a month. Celibacy was a discipline for entering into the presence of God just one time on one day. But our priests are in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist every day. Therefore, perpetual celibacy is a fitting fulfillment of the OT law. For more information, you might be interested in this article about the History of Celibacy. Additionally, Tradition with a capital “T” refers to the unwritten teaching of the apostles. And the Catholic Church is as bound to follow that teaching as sacred scripture. Tradition with a lower case “t” would apply to the traditions of men, family traditions, ethnic traditions etc. Celibacy is a Church discipline, as it was passed down from the disciples and is what you WILL find today in the Catholic Church to this day.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
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1 posted on 12/27/2008 3:43:48 PM PST by NYer
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To: All; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

This question often arises in the forum. The q & a format of this thread provides responses on many levels.


2 posted on 12/27/2008 3:45:07 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

I hate to say it but Money is the reason. In the distance past priest could have wifes but as in common law when the husband died the wife and sons would end up with the land and money and for this reason years ago the church changed the standards and here we are.


3 posted on 12/27/2008 3:51:01 PM PST by jafojeffsurf (Happy New Year)
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To: jafojeffsurf
I hate to say it but Money is the reason.

Glad you hated to say it, since it's not true. That's an old fairy tale spread by enemies of Christ's church.

4 posted on 12/27/2008 3:56:07 PM PST by Titanites
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To: NYer

Well actually there are a very few married Priests. They were Anglican priests that were permitted to remain married when they were accepted as Catholic priests.

For the record, I appreciate and understand the reasons why priests are expected to remain celibate (representation of Christ) but, since only Bishops are the direct representatives of Christ on earth. I’ve long felt that Priests should be allowed to get married and should not have to remain celibate. The celibacy requirements should of course apply to Bishops (which of course includes the Bishop of Rome).


5 posted on 12/27/2008 3:56:51 PM PST by tdewey10 (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!)
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To: tdewey10
They were Anglican priests that were permitted to remain married when they were accepted as Catholic priests.

Not just married Anglican priests have been accepted into the Catholic priesthood; there are married former ministers of other Protestant faiths, too.

6 posted on 12/27/2008 3:59:10 PM PST by Titanites
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To: Titanites

Interesting you should say that, My mother researched this years ago and I have had conversations with past priest of mine and was told that yes in the first several hundred years of the church priest on up did have wives. I can not point to a specific priest right now but there is plenty of documentation on popes whom had wifes, sons and daughters so maybe you might be missing something. or the historical documentation is just false.


7 posted on 12/27/2008 4:02:26 PM PST by jafojeffsurf (Happy New Year)
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To: NYer

What is it with you and posting all this why cannot certain people do things because of Catholics jazz? This is your second topic like this. Are you a tad miffed at Catholics or something?


8 posted on 12/27/2008 4:04:49 PM PST by RetiredArmy (Great patriotic stuff at www.patriotstore.us.)
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To: jafojeffsurf
My mother researched this years ago and I have had conversations with past priest of mine and was told that yes in the first several hundred years of the church priest on up did have wives. I can not point to a specific priest right now but there is plenty of documentation on popes whom had wifes, sons and daughters so maybe you might be missing something. or the historical documentation is just false.

I'm not missing anything, and don't disagree that priests could marry early in Church history. The lie is in your claim that requiring celibacy is about money. Prove it.

9 posted on 12/27/2008 4:09:08 PM PST by Titanites
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To: Titanites

Well other than taking you back into time and past politics I can not prove it beyond a doubt but do you think things political then are that much different than now? if so I challenge you to prove there is a difference. Here is one quick easy to find reference.

http://childrenofpriests.org/web/content/view/22/31/

Also you are free to believe what you want but I believe what I have heard combined with what I see. The church was very power hungry. Yes I am Catholic and I do believe my faith has made many mistakes but it is in the end only run by humans and we humans do have failings one big one is not to recognize and learn for mistakes.


10 posted on 12/27/2008 4:17:20 PM PST by jafojeffsurf (Happy New Year)
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To: tdewey10

I don’t think priests were ever allowed to get married once they became priests. I think that married men were allowed to become priests. Celebacy is a discipline in the latin rite of the Catholic Church. Other rites of the Catholic Church and other Apostolic Churches let married men become priests, but I’m pretty sure no apostolic Church allows priests to get married once they take their orders. And I don’t think any of these Churches allow married bishops.

Freegards


11 posted on 12/27/2008 4:28:52 PM PST by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
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To: jafojeffsurf
if so I challenge you to prove there is a difference. Here is one quick easy to find reference.

Where does your link discuss inheritance of the Church's wealth as a reason for instituting celibacy in the Catholic priesthood? You do know that the property belongs to the Church and not to the priest, so he couldn't will it to his family if he wanted to? It's not his to give away. Before celibacy was a discipline in the Church (note that it is not a doctrine of the Church), priests could not will away Church property. What your claiming is just another lie against the Church, a fable attempting to split believers away from the Church.

12 posted on 12/27/2008 4:30:32 PM PST by Titanites
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To: tdewey10
"I’ve long felt that Priests should be allowed to get married and should not have to remain celibate. The celibacy requirements should of course apply to Bishops (which of course includes the Bishop of Rome)."

This is the position I too have adopted. I was against marriage for Priests for most of my life, but the shortage of Priests is reaching a critical mass (no pun intended). I hope that the next Pope will address this issue more seriously, but I'm not expecting it.

13 posted on 12/27/2008 4:37:24 PM PST by Big_Monkey
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To: Titanites
enemies of Christ's church

I take it you mean the "Catholic Church". And disagreeing with doctrines of any church doesn't necessarily make someone an "enemy" of that church. I find statements like yours to be unnecessarily divisive. It presumes only the Catholic church is "Christ's church". We are all brothers and sisters in Christ including those of us who are not Catholic (or in my case have protestant and catholic family members).

Having said that I don't find money as a very convincing reason for Priests becoming celibate. Celibacy of the priesthood is one of many things I admire about the Catholic church.

14 posted on 12/27/2008 4:45:41 PM PST by plain talk
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To: tdewey10
I’ve long felt that Priests should be allowed to get married and should not have to remain celibate. The celibacy requirements should of course apply to Bishops (which of course includes the Bishop of Rome).

The 21 Churches that make up the Eastern branch of the Catholic Church all have married priests. Since their first vow is to marriage, the family takes precedence over the parish. The parish must have sufficient resources to support a married priest, his wife, children, their home, cars, children's education, health and dental insurance.. According to the Patriarch of the Maronite Catholic Church, the great challenge is in matching a married priest to a parish because if things don't work out, the cost of relocating the priest and his family is very expensive. For that reason, NO married priests are sent to the diaspora. My pastor's grandfather was a married priest; he, on the other hand, has chosen the celibate life.

You may find this thread informative.

Married Priests Back Celibacy (Part 1 of 2)

15 posted on 12/27/2008 4:49:45 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Titanites

About a 1/3 of the way down you will find this sentence “At the same time they claimed ownership of the churches and the lands owned by married priests.” You might want to read more than that to get the full political feel of this document. Your free to challenge me all you want but I don’t think your going to change my mind on what I have learned in the past. Can you produce proof Priest, Bishops, Cardinals, and Popes were not married? and then what is you reason they can not marry now? is it because the are devoted (married) to God? is that you reason? Because the church does not preach that a preist is Gods Wife/Husband they are teachers of his words is what I have learned.


16 posted on 12/27/2008 4:51:25 PM PST by jafojeffsurf (Happy New Year)
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To: RetiredArmy
What is it with you and posting all this why cannot certain people do things because of Catholics jazz? This is your second topic like this. Are you a tad miffed at Catholics or something?

These are 'apologetics' threads. They are posted because people find the topics interesting. If they don't interest you, then there is no need to visit the thread.

17 posted on 12/27/2008 4:52:01 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Big_Monkey

Ping to post #15.


18 posted on 12/27/2008 4:55:54 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: jafojeffsurf
At the same time they claimed ownership of the churches and the lands owned by married priests.

Before you swallow this whole, wouldn't you want to see some proof? I sure would, and I haven't seen any.

Your free to challenge me all you want but I don’t think your going to change my mind on what I have learned in the past.

You don't change your mind about things you've "learned" in the past? You've never "learned" anything in the past that turned out to be wrong? If not, you are unique.

Can you produce proof Priest, Bishops, Cardinals, and Popes were not married?

Why would I want to do that? I'm not claiming priests were not married during early Church history. I've said that earlier.

19 posted on 12/27/2008 4:58:55 PM PST by Titanites
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To: tdewey10
http://www.dwightlongenecker.com
20 posted on 12/27/2008 5:01:58 PM PST by incredulous joe ("Don't waste your question." ~ President-elect Obama)
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