Pastor John Hagee: "Thank you, Pope Benedict"

Insight Scoop ^ | April 29, 2008 | Carl Olson

[NYer]

Perhaps you've already seen this column in The Washington Times, written by John Hagee, pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio and author of several "end times" books based in premillennial dispensationalism. Hagee has been accused of being anti-Catholic, but he takes pains to counter those accusations:

During his recent visit to the United States, Pope Benedict XVI not only conducted mass and met with the Catholic faithful, but he made a series of public statements about the role that our Judeo-Christian faith can play during these challenging times. As an evangelical Protestant I happen to disagree with Pope Benedict on many issues of Christian doctrine and ritual. But when it comes to his moral vision for America and the world I have one thing to say in response to the Pope's visit: Amen. <snip>

My reaction to Pope Benedict"s visit may surprise some who have come to accept certain caricatures of my views of the Catholic Church. But as I have noted from the start, my critics have ignored the real point and strong emphasis of my words. I have indeed been quite zealous about condemning the past anti-Semitism of the Catholic Church. But I have been equally zealous in condemning Protestant anti-Semitism. Furthermore, as I noted in my 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown," I have long viewed Pope John Paul II and now Pope Benedict XVI as partners in this "righteous work" of overcoming our shared legacy of Christian anti-Semitism.

For decades I have taught that we Christians need to recognize that our roots are Jewish. As Christians we can only understand ourselves if we understand the Judaism from which we sprang. Pope Benedict made this very important point when he visited the Park East Synagogue in New York and shared that: "I find it moving to recall that Jesus, as a young boy, heard the words of Scripture and prayed in a place such as this." With visits and words such as these, Pope Benedict is continuing the important work of recognizing our enormous Christian debt of gratitude to the Jewish people.

Fair enough. I have no interest in questioning Hagee's sincerity, and his ecumenical attitude here is a pleasant surprise; after all, it's not something you'll likely find in the writings of, say, Tim LaHaye or Hal Lindsey. But a couple of things should be kept in mind:

• Hagee's beliefs, which flow from what might be called a "traditional" form of premillennial dispensationalism (as opposed to "progressive dispensationalism"), lead to the conclusion that the Jewish people have no need of the New Covenant because they already have a sufficient and equally valid covenant. Which means, strangely enough, that Hagee has more in common with Abraham Foxman than he does with many or most Evangelicals when it comes to the issue of evangelization and Jews. But Hagee's position is rooted in a rather logical take on John Nelson Darby's teachings, which were based on a heavenly-earthly dualism that insisted on a radical distinction between Christians (the heavenly people, according to Darby) and the Jews (who he called the earthly people of God). (See this June 2003 ZENIT interview for more.)

• Hagee has stated that Jesus was not the Messiah. This is apparently one of the key positions he defends in his recent book, In Defense of Israel. I've not read that book, but I suspect that his argument is simply a continuation of the first point: namely, (according to Hagee) since Christians and Jews have radically different covenants with God, it is wrong to say that Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews—that is, until they accept Him as such after the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming. Other dispensationalists have adopted similar views. For example, Charles Ryrie, author of the very influential work, Dispensationalism Today (first ed., 1965), wrote this in his 1986 book, Basic Theology:

“Gabriel announced to Mary that her Baby would have the throne of David and reign over the house of Jacob (Luke 1:32-33). Throughout his earthly ministry Jesus’ Davidic kingship was offered to Israel (Matt. 2:2; 27:11; John 12:13), but He was rejected. . . . Because the King was rejected, the messianic, Davidic kingdom was (from a human viewpoint) postponed. Though He never ceases to be King and, of course, is King today as always, Christ is never designated as King of the Church . . . Though Christ is a King today, He does not rule as King. This awaits His second coming. Then the Davidic kingdom will be realized (Matt. 25:31; Rev 19:15; 20)” [Basic Theology, 259].

Ryrie's position is both confusing and untenable, but it is made necessary by the presuppositions of the dispensationalist system, at least in its older forms.

• Finally, the dispensationalist system is not only contrary to many key Catholic doctrines, it has often understood the Catholic Church as either being a system of antiChrist, or at least being the sort of global institution/religion that will facilitate the rule of antiChrist and a false, "one world religion." This perspective is not understood by those who hold it—as I once did—as being "anti-Catholic," but as simply being realistic about "Bible prophecy" and the world we live in. For Hagee and like-minded folks, salvation is about having a "personal relationship with Christ," which they believe has little or nothing to do with being a visible member of this or that church.

There is another, closely related radical dichotomy at work here, which is that between the spiritual and the material realms—itself based on the heavenly-earthly distinction noted above (I examine this at length and in detail in my book, Will Catholics Be "Left Behind"?). For the typical dispensationalist (and most fundamentalists), the "Church" consists of all those who are spiritually united in saving faith in Jesus Christ (here's a good example of what I'm referring to). The church you attend is a secondary issue. And so there exists the notion that one can be perfectly saved and yet belong to an imperfect, local church. Thus, from this perspective, a Catholic can be "saved," (by the skin of his teeth!) even if the Catholic Church is not just flawed, but even apostate and blasphemous.

Hagree is absolutely right to denounce anti-Semitism. But there are some serious problems with his theological ideas, especially how he understands the relationship between the Old and the New Covenants, the person of Jesus Christ, and the nature of the Church. For me, frankly, the key issue is not if John Hagee is anti-Catholic. Rather, it's whether or not some of his core beliefs are actually Christian, even in the most general, "mere Christianity" sense of the word.

• Eschatological Fact and Fiction: Catholicism and Dispensationalism Compared | Carl E. Olson
• The Jews and the Second Coming | Roy H. Schoeman
• The End Times: The Secret Hidden From the Universe | Fr. James V. Schall, S.J.

[NYer]

Hagee has stated that Jesus was not the Messiah.

So ... he's not christian? Sola Scriptura continues to multiply the number of churches ... and then some.

[Hacksaw]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Running to the microwave for popcorn.....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Petronski]

Sola Scriptura continues to multiply the number of churches ... and then some.

Yeah, it continues to multiply the number of errors in Scriptural interpretation.

[the invisib1e hand]

John Hagee's not a bad guy.

Ave Maria!

[Jaded]

I’d rather have a coke float and cracker jacks.

[vladimir998]

Hagee doesn’t believe Jesus is the Messiah? Is that true? That would be a real shocker if it is.

[Lee N. Field]

Running to the microwave for popcorn.....

I was just about to, but if you're going to...

[Marysecretary]

He believes Jesus is Messiah, just wasn’t when he was alive. He was messiah after his death and will be the messiah of the Jews when He returns and they come to belief in him. Don’t let some of these posts mislead you.

[bmwcyle]

ping

[Lee N. Field]

Hagee has stated that Jesus was not the Messiah.

So ... he's not christian?

Hagee has, ah, "issues". From my POV (Reformational Christian, of the "Calvinist" variety, with a amillenial eschatology) Hagee's position is dispensationalism taken to one of it's possible consistent conclusions. DP-ism has soteriological implications.

Pinging a couple of other possibly interested parties.

[PetroniusMaximus]

NYer, Petronski, et. al,

From a catholic perspective, if a man washed ashore on a deserted island after a shipwreck and among the debris he found a Bible. Could he read it and be saved, if he never came in contact with another human before his death?

[PetroniusMaximus]

“He believes Jesus is Messiah, just wasn’t when he was alive.”

Hard to defend that position, seeing that “Son of Man” is a messianic title.

[gedeon3]

"Rather, it's whether or not some of his core beliefs are actually Christian, even in the most general"

The real question is whether Olson's beliefs are actually Christian at all.

[PetroniusMaximus]

“...of the “Calvinist” variety, with a amillenial eschatology”

Don’t worry, you can be forgiven for all that.

[Petronski]

I believe the answer is yes.

[Nihil Obstat]

yes

[thefrankbaum]

From a catholic perspective, if a man washed ashore on a deserted island after a shipwreck and among the debris he found a Bible. Could he read it and be saved, if he never came in contact with another human before his death?

Absolutely. The Church does not pretend to limit God - He can do whatever the heck He feels like. From the Nicene Creed, "We acknowledge one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins." The Church has always recognized three forms of Baptism - Water, Blood, and Spirit. Water Baptism should be clear to everyone. Baptism by Blood is a teaching whereby those who die for the Faith (Martyrs) are baptized with their death in the name of Christ. Baptism by Spirit is for those (normally catechumens) who die before receiving their Baptism by Water. Likewise, someone who lives a good life seeking Truth and acting in accordance with it can certainly be saved by the power of Christ. Check #1260

Hope that helps!

[Zionist Conspirator]

Nice to know that this is how Catholics treat Fundamentalist Protestants who say nice things about the Pope.

Hagee's a bigot because he's anti-Catholic and a heretic because he's pro-Jewish!

[Zionist Conspirator]

So ... he's not christian? Sola Scriptura continues to multiply the number of churches ... and then some.

Have you ever paused to consider the irony of your little crusade considering that Jews (and Noachides like myself) who explicitly reject the messianic claims about J*sus do not accept sola scriptura?