Posted on 07/14/2007 6:29:17 PM PDT by NYer
Today was my parents Golden Wedding Anniversary! Such a momentous occasion called for a special commemoration. They decided to renew their marriage vows.
My mother is Catholic; my father is not. Back in 1957, they had to receive permission for my father to be married in the Catholic Church. So it seemed only fitting that they repeat their vows in the Catholic Church. They chose my mother's parish which is quite stable as far as the liturgy. It is in a well to do community and is quite active. My daughter attended the attached school. At one time, this was also my parish. The pastor has been there for decades and is well respected in the diocese. When they met with him, he suggested that they renew their vows at the 5pm Mass. The front pew was cordoned off for the 4 of us and the Mass was well attended.
It's been more than 3 years since I attended a NO Mass in the diocese and that was at my previous parish, not this one. The church was constructed post VCII and is of a cruciform design. As we waited for the Mass to begin, we all had an opportunity to reflect back on the memories associated with this Church. It was here that my daughter made her First Communion - the combined school and religious education class was so large that each family was limited to only 1/2 pew. With the exception of a new marble floor in the Sanctuary and magnificent organ directly behind it, not much has changed over time. We noticed one of her former classmates sitting with her Mom and smiled in recognition. It felt good to be back there again, and especially comforting to see the Church so crowded. I couldn't help but think of my small parish with only a handful of weekly adherents.
I was roused from the reverie by the announcement of the Entrance Hymn. The responses to the prayers came easily and the readings were much more meaningful given the education I have received from Abouna at our Bible study classes.
An elderly couple brought up the gifts - a large silver bowl with unconsecrated hosts, a ewer with wine and a pitcher with water - all made from precious metals. I smiled recalling the glass bowls and pitchers at my former parish. This pastor KNEW his GIRM. But then I noticed one of the altar girls - no more than 10 years of age - step behind the altar, open the corporal, place it on the altar, remove the patten from the chalice and position it on the corporal, move the chalice onto the corporal and place another corporal across the chalice. All the while, the priest stood behind her with a bright smile on his face. What the heck!!!! Is this something new? I mentally set it aside and refocused on the Mass.
The Tabernacle in this Church sits on a marble table, similar in design to the altar, in prominent position within the Sanctuary. Following the Consecration, the congregation sang the 'Lamb of God'. No one moved towards the Tabernacle to reclaim any previously consecrated hosts. Instead, two individuals emerged from the Sacristy, each carrying a tray. On one were 6 golden chalices and on the other were 6 gold and silver communion cups. The ewer sat on the altar but no wine was poured from it into the cups, nor were any consecrated hosts transferred from the large silver bowl to the smaller ones. Meanwhile, the cavalcade of EMHCs stepped forward to form a semi circle in the Sanctuary. The priest handed each one a consecrated host. They then picked up the other bowls and cups from the two trays. My jaw dropped! As they went to their appointed positions, I noticed one of the priests moving in our direction to give communion to my mother. (Obviously my father cannot receive. He cannot stand and my mother insisted on remaining seated next to him). I noticed that the pastor was carrying one of the 6 communion cups and was headed directly to where my parents were sitting in the front pew. I promptly stood up, exited the pew, went around to the center aisle and crossed over to receive from the principal celebrant holding the large silver bowl with consecrated hosts. I intentionally avoided any eye contact with my mother who was trying to get my attention to remain in the pew and receive from the pastor. Following communion, the remaining hosts were gathered together into 2 of the silver and gold communion cups and placed in the Tabernacle.
Now ... as I understand it, unless the communion cups containing the unconsecrated hosts are on the altar during the Consecration, the hosts remain unconsecrated. Am I correct? Same for the 6 cups of wine. Since none of these 6 cups was removed from the Tabernacle, then they are not left over from a previous Mass ... correct? What the heck!!!
Last week my mother expressed 'concern' that I might feel uncomfortable attending Mass at her parish since I was coming from "that Eastern Church". I have learned from Abouna to keep these explanations simple and used his analogy - "Same faith, different flavor - like ice cream, Mom". Today, as I did the last time I attended a NO Mass at my former parish where the EMHC dropped a consecrated host on the Sanctuary floor, picked it up and redeposited it in her glass communion bowl, I bowed my head in prayer and asked our Lord to please deliver these Catholics from this nonsense. Like most Catholics, my mother has never read the GIRM nor is she interested in learning about what constitutes a valid or even licit liturgy. This pastor, as previously noted, is not only well respected but considered as one of the more orthodox priests in this diocese. I have not said a word to my parents who already consider me a religious fanatic. For my mother and daughter, this evening's Mass was beautiful, orthodox and reverent.
Please pray for the Catholics in the Albany Diocese!
Please correct any misunderstandings I may have had. Is this now the norm for celebrating the NO Mass?
Please correct any misunderstandings I may have had. Is this now the norm for celebrating the NO Mass?
Not in my experience.
Maybe in Albany but not here.
And this is so true...
>>Like most Catholics, my mother has never read the GIRM nor is she interested in learning about what constitutes a valid or even licit liturgy. <<
And while you’re at it, say a few prayers for the poor schmucks like myself who don’t have any choice (save a 3 hour drive) and must put up with this all the time. At least you didn’t have to witness any liturgical dance!!
“Is this now the norm for celebrating the NO Mass?”
In my experience the norm is whatever the “presiding” padre wants to do.
Hula dancers, clowns, mariachis, armies of “Eucharistic ministers”, laymen giving sermons - anything goes.
Except of course the Traditional Latin Mass. The only Mass, which I have ever seen our Archbishop criticize, is the indult Mass authorized by one of his predecessors.
In one of last years issues of the “Catholic”Sentinel, the archbishop writes:
“ ...A number of people thanked me for making the Tridentine rite available in this archdiocese and asked that it become even more available here in western Oregon. That request unsettles me but I shall not dismiss it without prayer and reflection.
Perhaps both rites will continue to serve the needs of the church for many years to come, but challenges remain. Those who espouse the Tridentine rite must seek ways to provide a richer variety of proclamations from Sacred Scripture, particularly from the Old Testament, which are practically nonexistent in the Sunday Tridentine rite.
Furthermore, enhanced participation of the faithful both in word and song must be given serious attention...”
This is of course mild as compared to his off the record verbal comments.
I’m with you on this. Somehow I doubt God is in his heaven fuming at all those Catholics who aren’t studying the particulars of what makes a valid Mass. At some point it becomes a question of form over function. The priests may be on God’s S-list, but for the rest of us, our intent is good, and I think that’s what matters to the Man Upstairs.
I shall now don my asbestos suit and await incoming.
Yes, you are correct. A couple of years ago, I asked my former TLM priest a similar question. We have both the TLM and the NO at our parish. We have a couple of TLM attendees who question the validity of the consecration of the NO Hosts reserved in the tabernacle. I asked my priest that if for any reason that unconsecrated hosts were in the tabernacle, would they be consecrated when he said the words of consecration? His reply was no, the hosts must be on the altar in front of him for the consecration to occur.
Since none of these 6 cups was removed from the Tabernacle, then they are not left over from a previous Mass ... correct? What the heck!!!
It is hard to say one way or the other. Some parishes have another tabernacle in the sacristy or a side chapel. Though usually the tabernacle in the sanctuary is not used if another tabernacle is being used elsewhere.
The only charitable explaination that I can think of is that there was so many Hosts and so much Wine consecrated at a previous Mass that it could not be contained in the main tabernacle. Therefore the consecrated Elements were reserved in another tabernacle or someplace safe and under lock and key.
I know of a parish that has a Perpetual Adoration Chapel. At the Sunday Masses (5) just before Holy Communion either the Deacon or the EMHC would go to the chapel to obtain the ciborium of Hosts. After Holy Communion, the ciborium would be returned to the chapel and placed, exposed next to the monstrance, under the watch of the adorers present. At the final Mass of the day, after Holy Communion, the remaining consecrated Hosts would be placed in the tabernacle for Viaticum.
Finally, there is the kooky idea that the stupid laity get very confused and disturbed because Christ is present on the Altar, present in the Word, present in our song and present in the assembly. And if He is present in the tabernacle, well the laity can't handle that. Why the poor dears will be so addled due to the confusion of playing Where's Waldo, er , I mean where's Christ that they will be permanently brain damaged.
BTW, welcome to the club of religious fanatacism. My parents think the same of me.
“I shall now don my asbestos suit and await incoming.”
No incoming from this direction.
I do, however, feel no obligation to attend an invalid or irreverent Mass. Although most, if not all, of our local Masses are in some ways illicit, few are irreverent or invalid.
With the nearest Mass, which can be counted upon to be licit, being a seven plus hour round trip, I can only hope we don’t get another flaky padre.
A couple of things stand out. Is there another tabernacle in the back? That is the only way these would have been the consecrated Body of Christ. If it was 5pm on Saturday (and the first mass) perhaps. Otherwise the items should have been on the corporal for consecration.
I am sacristan at my parish and the priest prepares the items on the alter, not the alter boy/girl. This sounds like they are trying, but are being very loose with the sacredness of liturgy.
Thankfully in my parish, the celebration of the Eucharist is the priority above all else. Our new pastor has been getting rid of all of the fluff. Yeah!
“Some parishes have another tabernacle in the sacristy or a side chapel.”
I thought that only one tabernacle was allowed in a regular parish church?
The Precious Blood is never allowed to be reserved from a previous Mass.
To knowingly distribute or receive unconsecrated bread or wine seems to me like idolatry.
LOL! Here, come sit next to me in the last pew...closest to the door. Wanna look at my new (old) St. Joseph's Daily Missal? It's got lots of pretty pictures!
When you think you have the seen the worst of liturgical dance, someone sends you this:
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/070619
85. It is most desirable that the faithful, just as the priest himself is bound to do, receive the Lord's Body from hosts consecrated at the same Mass and that, in the instances when it is permitted, they partake of the chalice (cf. below, no. 283), so that even by means of the signs Communion will stand out more clearly as a participation in the sacrifice actually being celebrated.73
73. Cf. Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction Eucharisticum mysterium, On the worship of the Eucharist, 25 May 1967, nos. 31, 32; Sacred Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction Immensae caritatis, 29 January 1973, no. 2: AAS 65 (1973), pp. 267-268.
It would be interesting to have the explanation from the pastor about your questions. Gee, Father, we're a little confused.
About the corporal, chalice, paten and purificator, the GIRM really doesn't specify the person to place them on the altar:
73. At the beginning of the Liturgy of the Eucharist the gifts, which will become Christ's Body and Blood, are brought to the altar. First, the altar, the Lord's table, which is the center of the whole Liturgy of the Eucharist,70 is prepared by placing on it the corporal, purificator, Missal, and chalice (unless the chalice is prepared at the credence table).
That section also says something about including the monetary offerings with the gifts. I think we had a thread a few weeks ago when someone was expressing outrage over that - not worshipping God and mammon was the poor soul's concern about the filthy lucre accompanying the bread and wine.
...It is well also that money or other gifts for the poor or for the Church, brought by the faithful or collected in the church, should be received. These are to be put in a suitable place but away from the eucharistic table.
Sloppy.
Very bizarre. Only one of two explanations seems possible? Either those particular hosts were not consecrated, or were previously consecrated but not kept in the tabernacle for some reason, apparently a grave sacrilege. I’ve been to many N.O. parishes, some pretty bad, but never saw anything like you describe. Sorry to say, but the fact of the priest being well-respected in the diocese really doesn’t mean much.
If it were not for sparing your Mom’s feelings, I would encourage you strongly to write to the Bishop, simply describing the situation as you saw it, like you did for us here, for his information and consideration. Ordinarily I would even say you might have a responsibility to do so, but in this case respect for your Mom’s feelings and also her having to get along with people there comes into play. However, I’m glad you posted this, we need to keep raising awareness of what the Holy Father called (and he wasn’t exaggerating!) “deformations.”
When exactly did the Mass become more about us, and less about Christ? I say take the “me” outta Mass! Let us all go there, be quiet, and pray. Enough of this attention seeking behaviour! I know, it’s how people with talent say they worship God....well, fine, let em worship like that in their living room!
rantiingly,
Emily Lattilla!! :)
“...In prances about 10 of our 8-9th grade girls. They are wearing what can best be described as a mini-toga. Skirts way too short, no stockings, bare feet. They proceed to put a BOOM BOX ON THE ALTAR and gyrate around for a while....”
Time to get up and walk right straight out the center aisle...and when you get home, call the bank and stop payment on the check you put in the basket,
You’re too polite to name names, but I’m not. John Vlazny.
I do so only because often people are confused because Oregon is split into two dioceses, each quite different.
The eastern part, the Diocese of Baker, has Bishop Vasa as its leader, one of the outstanding young bishops in the country (for orthodoxy and leadership) and one of the few to go against the USCCB and refuse to put sex ed into the religious ed programs. (He’s a protege of Bishop Bruskewitz of Nebraska, who was interviewed on EWTN for the special Monday night on the S.P.)
Archbishop Vlazny heads the Portland Archdiocese, which covers western Oregon. This was the first diocese in the country to declare bankruptcy in the abuse scandal. It also has some wonderful pastoral programs such as global warming workshops, free lawyers for illegals, and explicit, secular sex ed (’abuse prevention’) materials for children over age 5.
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