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Protestants aren't proper Christians, says Pope
Daily Mail ^ | 11th July 2007 | SIMON CALDWELL

Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons

Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.

Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.

Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.

It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.

As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.

The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".

Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.

The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.

The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.

At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.

Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.

He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholics; pope; protestants; vatican
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All I'll say in response to Pope Benedict is that we need to be focusing on Islam instead of sniping at each other.
1 posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:30 PM PDT by indcons
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To: indcons
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops.

Well, gosh, that just goes to prove their point, now, doesn't it?

2 posted on 07/10/2007 6:57:26 PM PDT by kingu (No, I don't use sarcasm tags - it confuses people.)
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To: indcons

Focusing on the LORD wouldn’t hurt either.


3 posted on 07/10/2007 6:57:36 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (The FairTax and the North American Union are mutually exclusive.)
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To: indcons
I read this earlier today and my first thought was how Benedict was erasing all the progress of uniting the church that John Paul made.

My second thought was that I’m glad that who is or isn’t a ‘proper Christian’ isn’t a choice of the pope, that decision is God’s.

4 posted on 07/10/2007 6:58:54 PM PDT by mnehring (Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit)
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To: indcons

Well, you have to be kind of an idiot to belong to a religion you didn’t think was the one true one.


5 posted on 07/10/2007 6:59:09 PM PDT by Krankor (kROGER)
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To: indcons

I agree....lots of panes in the glass house of the Pope....


6 posted on 07/10/2007 6:59:54 PM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
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To: indcons

*rolls eyes*


7 posted on 07/10/2007 7:00:01 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Sic Semper Tyrannis * U.Va. Engineering '09 * Friends Don't Let Friends Vote Democrat * Fred in 2008)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Krankor
Well, you have to be kind of an idiot to belong to a religion you didn’t think was the one true one.

That's the difference between a Christian and a Catholic...

9 posted on 07/10/2007 7:00:49 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: indcons
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying (that they would never ever ever say such a thing like that ABOUT Catholics /SARCASM )the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
10 posted on 07/10/2007 7:00:59 PM PDT by badpacifist
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To: indcons

One could reasonably argue that “Thou shall have no other god before me” includes any number of Popes...


11 posted on 07/10/2007 7:01:28 PM PDT by null and void (...and there'd be world peace and fuzzy puppies for everyone. And then we could eat them...)
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To: danneskjold

Hopefully I don’t understand what you are saying. Please expand.


12 posted on 07/10/2007 7:03:18 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: indcons

Divisions have weakened Christianity. Unity is strength.


13 posted on 07/10/2007 7:03:23 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

You understood perfectly. Unfortunately.


14 posted on 07/10/2007 7:05:40 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: indcons

Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863775/posts

Pope: Other Christians not true churches
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863645/posts

Vatican says other Christian churches “wounded” (Non-Catholics not fullly Christian)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863612/posts

Vatican reiterates hardline on primacy of Catholic Church
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863549/posts

and, related:

Protestants and the Pope
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863618/posts


15 posted on 07/10/2007 7:05:59 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I have heard some Catholics (granted, not all) say that Catholicism is the only way to Heaven. It is much less likely to hear that proclamation from a Baptist, Episcipalian, etc...

If you are offended, I apologize...It is just my opinion based on my observations...

16 posted on 07/10/2007 7:06:55 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: danneskjold

So, then, you concede Osama bin Laden’s brand of Islam is just as much the one, true religion as the Anglicans?


17 posted on 07/10/2007 7:07:02 PM PDT by Krankor (kROGER)
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To: danneskjold

The Pope didn’t say anything about who’s going to Heaven and who isn’t. He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church. And in that, he is stating the simple truth. You don’t even have to be Catholic, or believe that that matters, to acknowledge that.

Sorry if that offends anybody, but it’s the fact.


18 posted on 07/10/2007 7:11:17 PM PDT by Argus
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To: mnehrling
my first thought was how Benedict was erasing all the progress of uniting the church that John Paul made.

And some folks consider that a good thing. I can see why the ECT crowd would be unhappy.

19 posted on 07/10/2007 7:11:53 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Krankor
So, then, you concede Osama bin Laden’s brand of Islam is just as much the one, true religion as the Anglicans?

No, I believe I'll limit it to Christianity...

20 posted on 07/10/2007 7:13:48 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: pax_et_bonum
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.

Well, just wait until I'm Pope.

I'll be redefining a value or two for sure!

Right after I take the PopeMobile mudding at the river.

21 posted on 07/10/2007 7:14:39 PM PDT by humblegunner (Word up!)
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To: sageb1
You understood perfectly. Unfortunately.

Actually, I don't think either one of you understood. My fault for not being clearer...

I don't feel that any one Christian religion is the only "proper" one...

22 posted on 07/10/2007 7:16:03 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: sageb1

Are you saying that Catholics have a lock on being self-righteous? If so, you are EXTREMELY ignorant.


23 posted on 07/10/2007 7:16:52 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: danneskjold

I’m guessing you must have a big shortage of Southern Baptists down in LA.


24 posted on 07/10/2007 7:18:13 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: indcons
I don’t know how I feel about such statements but I will say this: you’ll notice that protestants and catholics in Europe did not poor into the streets blowing up each other’s churches.
25 posted on 07/10/2007 7:20:18 PM PDT by SouthJrzReaganite18 ("Mental institution, Michael, something you outta think about." - Fred Thompson to Michael Moore)
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To: Argus
The Pope didn’t say anything about who’s going to Heaven and who isn’t.

And I didn't accuse the Pope of saying that either...

He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church. And in that, he is stating the simple truth. You don’t even have to be Catholic, or believe that that matters, to acknowledge that.

If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...

Sorry if that offends anybody, but it’s the fact.

Not offended...just don't agree...

26 posted on 07/10/2007 7:20:46 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: Eagle Eye

Really? I had no idea the Pope lived in such luxury as you claim.

I think that living a life in the spotlight, under the constant threat of assassination, and of having every move watched is not exactly luxury.


27 posted on 07/10/2007 7:21:34 PM PDT by DTwistedSisterS
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To: indcons
Protestants aren't proper Christians, says Pope

OK

28 posted on 07/10/2007 7:22:47 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

I am a Catholic.


29 posted on 07/10/2007 7:23:46 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I’m guessing you must have a big shortage of Southern Baptists down in LA.

:) Actually, they're quite prevelant. I was actually raised Southern Baptist, but that's not what I consider myself now. I honestly never heard any sermons from the pulpit about those "improper" Catholics.

I'm not saying there aren't old-schoolers that feel that their brand is the only way, but this is coming from the Pope for goodness sake...

30 posted on 07/10/2007 7:24:03 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: Argus; danneskjold
He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church.

Where in Scripture do we have a practice of Apostles directly appointing bishops of churches? I know that Paul writes of the qualities that an individual should have to be an elder, but the practice was for the congregation to select their elders and bishops. The monobishophoric hierarchy did not develop until after the end of the Apostolic era.

31 posted on 07/10/2007 7:30:37 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: SouthJrzReaganite18; indcons
you’ll notice that protestants and catholics in Europe did not poor into the streets blowing up each other’s churches.

They sure did during the religious wars and the RCC has a long history of destruction when it had the power of the state behind it.

32 posted on 07/10/2007 7:34:35 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights

Agreed. My point was that if the big claim of being a “proper” Christian lies with apostolic succession, then why?


33 posted on 07/10/2007 7:38:52 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: wmfights
The monobishophoric hierarchy did not develop until after the end of the Apostolic era.

Yeah, because that's when it began to be needed, once the first generation apostles started dying out. Thus, when Peter died he was succeeded by Linus, who was succeeded by Anacletus, who was succeeded by Clement, etc. This was coming into being before the writing of some of the latest New Testament scriptures and certainly before they were codified and declared Holy Scripture (by bishops).
34 posted on 07/10/2007 7:39:27 PM PDT by marsh_of_mists
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To: danneskjold
My point was that if the big claim of being a “proper” Christian lies with apostolic succession, then why?

It never has. A "proper" Christian is a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who knows they only path to salvation is through our Saviour Jesus Christ. No institution of man has that power and the theory of Apostolic succession is not supported by Scripture.

35 posted on 07/10/2007 7:45:32 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights

Thank You...


36 posted on 07/10/2007 7:50:07 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: marsh_of_mists
...it began to be needed, once the first generation apostles started dying out.

It may have developed in response to external forces, but it was never mandated by Scripture. In fact in Scripture you see at the council in Jerusalem a congregational approach to resolving issues.

when Peter died he was succeeded by Linus, who was succeeded by Anacletus, who was succeeded by Clement, etc.

Your list has some gaps and problems with credibility. Also, you do not see in the generations following the Apostles the supernatural powers in these leaders that the Apostles had. Thus you may a lengthy historical lineage, but it is no direct pipe line to GOD.

This was coming into being before the writing of some of the latest New Testament scriptures and certainly before they were codified and declared Holy Scripture (by bishops).

The Scriptures were Holy whether one group of Christians recognized them or not.

37 posted on 07/10/2007 7:55:12 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: danneskjold
Thank You...

Your welcome Brother.

38 posted on 07/10/2007 7:56:56 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: DTwistedSisterS

He wears the finest clothes, has the finest foods, lives in a palace with servants where his ever need is catered to and DOES NOT fear assassination....he has his own secret service.

What does he need? Nothing.

He is no more closely examined than any other powerful person who leads a semi public life.


39 posted on 07/10/2007 8:05:12 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (If you agee with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: danneskjold

I guess Jesus is d@mned to burn in hell for eternity, according to the Catholics.

After all, he wasn’t Catholic... and didn’t believe in the trinity... or worship himself.

And if you don’t do that, then you’re ‘supposed’ to go to hell.

For only Catholic faith can get you into Heaven.

(rolls eyes)


40 posted on 07/10/2007 8:16:54 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Republicans only win if they are conservative.)
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To: wmfights
It may have developed in response to external forces, but it was never mandated by Scripture. In fact in Scripture you see at the council in Jerusalem a congregational approach to resolving issues.

Catholics don't believe that every religious truth is spelled out literally in Scripture. We believe it is one of three great sources of Divine Truth, the others beign the Magesterium and Sacred Tradition.

Your list has some gaps and problems with credibility.

That is the sequence that is generally considered authoratative, though the details are disputable.

Also, you do not see in the generations following the Apostles the supernatural powers in these leaders that the Apostles had.

So?

The Scriptures were Holy whether one group of Christians recognized them or not.

How do you know they're authorative? Because you personally choose to recognize them, just because?
41 posted on 07/10/2007 8:23:02 PM PDT by marsh_of_mists
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To: indcons

“Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations
other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have
no value. “

I suspect the response of a lot of Prot/fundamentalist Christians
in the USA would sound like the GEICO Cavemen:
“What’s ‘holy orders’?”

I say that as a friendly observation as a fellow raised in a non-denominational
and fundamentalist Christian church. (and will quietly let pass the
good Pope’s claim of owning an exclusive franchise)


42 posted on 07/10/2007 8:24:18 PM PDT by VOA
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To: danneskjold
I have heard some Catholics (granted, not all) say that Catholicism is the only way to Heaven. It is much less likely to hear that proclamation from a Baptist, Episcipalian, etc...

If you ever hear a Baptist say that you will know that he or she doesn't represent Baptist doctrine in any way, shape, or form. A person's salvation has nothing to do with his or her denomination, it only has to do with his/her personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:9-10. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That is the pure and simple Gospel of Christ. Anyone who truly, openly, and verbally puts his or her faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for their sin is saved from condemnation and is a member of Christ's body on earth, whether Protestant, Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.

Galatians 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

And that is the Word of God's judgment on those who pervert the true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone into a false gospel of salvation through the works of man. What the bible says in those verses is either true or a lie. If those verses aren't true, then the bible is not the inspired Word of God and we are left to our own devices as to how to gain salvation and escape eternal damnation in a place the kind and loving Savior Himself called the lake of fire.

But they are true words from God Himself to the people of the world, and where a man or woman will spend eternity is determined by his or her response to the Gospel of Christ as proclaimed by the divinely inspired authors of the New Testament, not by membership in a denomination.

43 posted on 07/10/2007 8:27:23 PM PDT by epow ( "The more guns you take out of society the fewer murders you will have" Rudy--6/20/00)
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To: indcons

A little less theological dispute and a little more imitation of Christ would do us all good.

Take it from me, an improper Christian!


44 posted on 07/10/2007 8:29:37 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: indcons

I just hope the pope doesn’t get himself a holy roman emperor any time soon. We all know how that turned out.

I’ve heard all this from my neighbors, and believe me they got an earfull. Try living with 11 neighbors, all RCs, and they are all attempting to be “the one” who bags the Protestant. lol Patrick Madrid’s book has really fired them up. They are all over 75...so you know I am respectful, though.

You have to give the pope a break though. It can’t be easy, even for a pro, to court the religions of the world and not tick off the faithful. You have to let them know they are extra special.

Yeh...I’m a smart*ss. Sorry, but I’ve had enough of this garbage. If RCs believe this teaching please get back to me in after we’re dead.


45 posted on 07/10/2007 8:34:09 PM PDT by 1st-P-In-The-Pod
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To: indcons

ping


46 posted on 07/10/2007 8:40:57 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: indcons

Good grief, this guy is nuts. He ought to read the Bible sometime and learn how God said to have no other God’s before Him. The pope is no God not even a little. He is just a man that has been dedicated to his religion.

He is obviously not a uniter either. The world has one main enemy and that is Islam and those that follow that cult that want to kill all of us and rule over us. The Pope should be more concerned about that, too bad he would rather just BS about other infidels. Sad really. I hope he apologizes and see’s we all need to join together to fight the enemy as best we can.


47 posted on 07/10/2007 8:48:58 PM PDT by Brandie (I am for Duncan Hunter and Fred Thompson, but then I am a Conservative.)
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To: indcons; guppas; ExtremeUnction; ripnbang; starlifter; CincinnatiKid; romanesq; ab01; stevem; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

48 posted on 07/10/2007 9:05:16 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Brandie

Your rather unChristian comments reflect both on your ignorance and your character.

An example, you say: “He is obviously not a uniter either.”

Our Lord said: “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”

You claim the Pope is a “god”, he is not and no one claims he is - he IS the valid successor to the Apostles, just as Timothy was a valid successor to Judas.

You ought to apologize for your insane insults and slurs, but I doubt that you will. I will remember you in my prayers.


49 posted on 07/10/2007 9:11:13 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: narses

Discuss the issues all you want but do NOT make it personal.


50 posted on 07/10/2007 9:23:38 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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