Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
Well, gosh, that just goes to prove their point, now, doesn't it?
Focusing on the LORD wouldn’t hurt either.
My second thought was that I’m glad that who is or isn’t a ‘proper Christian’ isn’t a choice of the pope, that decision is God’s.
Well, you have to be kind of an idiot to belong to a religion you didn’t think was the one true one.
I agree....lots of panes in the glass house of the Pope....
*rolls eyes*
That's the difference between a Christian and a Catholic...
One could reasonably argue that “Thou shall have no other god before me” includes any number of Popes...
Hopefully I don’t understand what you are saying. Please expand.
Divisions have weakened Christianity. Unity is strength.
You understood perfectly. Unfortunately.
Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863775/posts
Pope: Other Christians not true churches
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863645/posts
Vatican says other Christian churches “wounded” (Non-Catholics not fullly Christian)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863612/posts
Vatican reiterates hardline on primacy of Catholic Church
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863549/posts
and, related:
Protestants and the Pope
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1863618/posts
If you are offended, I apologize...It is just my opinion based on my observations...
So, then, you concede Osama bin Laden’s brand of Islam is just as much the one, true religion as the Anglicans?
The Pope didn’t say anything about who’s going to Heaven and who isn’t. He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church. And in that, he is stating the simple truth. You don’t even have to be Catholic, or believe that that matters, to acknowledge that.
Sorry if that offends anybody, but it’s the fact.
And some folks consider that a good thing. I can see why the ECT crowd would be unhappy.
No, I believe I'll limit it to Christianity...
Well, just wait until I'm Pope.
I'll be redefining a value or two for sure!
Right after I take the PopeMobile mudding at the river.
Actually, I don't think either one of you understood. My fault for not being clearer...
I don't feel that any one Christian religion is the only "proper" one...
Are you saying that Catholics have a lock on being self-righteous? If so, you are EXTREMELY ignorant.
I’m guessing you must have a big shortage of Southern Baptists down in LA.
And I didn't accuse the Pope of saying that either...
He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church. And in that, he is stating the simple truth. You don’t even have to be Catholic, or believe that that matters, to acknowledge that.
If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...
Sorry if that offends anybody, but it’s the fact.
Not offended...just don't agree...
Really? I had no idea the Pope lived in such luxury as you claim.
I think that living a life in the spotlight, under the constant threat of assassination, and of having every move watched is not exactly luxury.
OK
I am a Catholic.
:) Actually, they're quite prevelant. I was actually raised Southern Baptist, but that's not what I consider myself now. I honestly never heard any sermons from the pulpit about those "improper" Catholics.
I'm not saying there aren't old-schoolers that feel that their brand is the only way, but this is coming from the Pope for goodness sake...
Where in Scripture do we have a practice of Apostles directly appointing bishops of churches? I know that Paul writes of the qualities that an individual should have to be an elder, but the practice was for the congregation to select their elders and bishops. The monobishophoric hierarchy did not develop until after the end of the Apostolic era.
They sure did during the religious wars and the RCC has a long history of destruction when it had the power of the state behind it.
Agreed. My point was that if the big claim of being a “proper” Christian lies with apostolic succession, then why?
It never has. A "proper" Christian is a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who knows they only path to salvation is through our Saviour Jesus Christ. No institution of man has that power and the theory of Apostolic succession is not supported by Scripture.
Thank You...
It may have developed in response to external forces, but it was never mandated by Scripture. In fact in Scripture you see at the council in Jerusalem a congregational approach to resolving issues.
when Peter died he was succeeded by Linus, who was succeeded by Anacletus, who was succeeded by Clement, etc.
Your list has some gaps and problems with credibility. Also, you do not see in the generations following the Apostles the supernatural powers in these leaders that the Apostles had. Thus you may a lengthy historical lineage, but it is no direct pipe line to GOD.
This was coming into being before the writing of some of the latest New Testament scriptures and certainly before they were codified and declared Holy Scripture (by bishops).
The Scriptures were Holy whether one group of Christians recognized them or not.
Your welcome Brother.
He wears the finest clothes, has the finest foods, lives in a palace with servants where his ever need is catered to and DOES NOT fear assassination....he has his own secret service.
What does he need? Nothing.
He is no more closely examined than any other powerful person who leads a semi public life.
I guess Jesus is d@mned to burn in hell for eternity, according to the Catholics.
After all, he wasn’t Catholic... and didn’t believe in the trinity... or worship himself.
And if you don’t do that, then you’re ‘supposed’ to go to hell.
For only Catholic faith can get you into Heaven.
(rolls eyes)
“Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations
other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have
no value. “
I suspect the response of a lot of Prot/fundamentalist Christians
in the USA would sound like the GEICO Cavemen:
“What’s ‘holy orders’?”
I say that as a friendly observation as a fellow raised in a non-denominational
and fundamentalist Christian church. (and will quietly let pass the
good Pope’s claim of owning an exclusive franchise)
If you ever hear a Baptist say that you will know that he or she doesn't represent Baptist doctrine in any way, shape, or form. A person's salvation has nothing to do with his or her denomination, it only has to do with his/her personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9-10. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That is the pure and simple Gospel of Christ. Anyone who truly, openly, and verbally puts his or her faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for their sin is saved from condemnation and is a member of Christ's body on earth, whether Protestant, Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.
Galatians 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
And that is the Word of God's judgment on those who pervert the true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone into a false gospel of salvation through the works of man. What the bible says in those verses is either true or a lie. If those verses aren't true, then the bible is not the inspired Word of God and we are left to our own devices as to how to gain salvation and escape eternal damnation in a place the kind and loving Savior Himself called the lake of fire.
But they are true words from God Himself to the people of the world, and where a man or woman will spend eternity is determined by his or her response to the Gospel of Christ as proclaimed by the divinely inspired authors of the New Testament, not by membership in a denomination.
A little less theological dispute and a little more imitation of Christ would do us all good.
Take it from me, an improper Christian!
I just hope the pope doesn’t get himself a holy roman emperor any time soon. We all know how that turned out.
I’ve heard all this from my neighbors, and believe me they got an earfull. Try living with 11 neighbors, all RCs, and they are all attempting to be “the one” who bags the Protestant. lol Patrick Madrid’s book has really fired them up. They are all over 75...so you know I am respectful, though.
You have to give the pope a break though. It can’t be easy, even for a pro, to court the religions of the world and not tick off the faithful. You have to let them know they are extra special.
Yeh...I’m a smart*ss. Sorry, but I’ve had enough of this garbage. If RCs believe this teaching please get back to me in after we’re dead.
ping
Good grief, this guy is nuts. He ought to read the Bible sometime and learn how God said to have no other God’s before Him. The pope is no God not even a little. He is just a man that has been dedicated to his religion.
He is obviously not a uniter either. The world has one main enemy and that is Islam and those that follow that cult that want to kill all of us and rule over us. The Pope should be more concerned about that, too bad he would rather just BS about other infidels. Sad really. I hope he apologizes and see’s we all need to join together to fight the enemy as best we can.
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Your rather unChristian comments reflect both on your ignorance and your character.
An example, you say: “He is obviously not a uniter either.”
Our Lord said: “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”
You claim the Pope is a “god”, he is not and no one claims he is - he IS the valid successor to the Apostles, just as Timothy was a valid successor to Judas.
You ought to apologize for your insane insults and slurs, but I doubt that you will. I will remember you in my prayers.
Discuss the issues all you want but do NOT make it personal.
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