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Protestants aren't proper Christians, says Pope
Daily Mail ^ | 11th July 2007 | SIMON CALDWELL

Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons

Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.

Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.

Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.

It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.

As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.

The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".

Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.

The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.

The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.

At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.

Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.

He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholics; pope; protestants; vatican
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To: XeniaSt; LeGrande

“Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.

How do you come to this understanding?”

It gives us warm fuzzies all over.


141 posted on 07/11/2007 7:59:15 AM PDT by Augustinian monk
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To: danneskjold
If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...

News - Peter was NOT the lead Apostle after the crucification

142 posted on 07/11/2007 8:00:15 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: DTwistedSisterS
Really? I had no idea the Pope lived in such luxury as you claim

Can you be serious?

143 posted on 07/11/2007 8:01:02 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: mnehrling
"My second thought was that I’m glad that who is or isn’t a ‘proper Christian’ isn’t a choice of the pope, that decision is God’s."

The first thought here! : )

144 posted on 07/11/2007 8:02:12 AM PDT by LucyJo
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To: wmfights
He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church.

Who was the lead Apostle after the Crucification?

145 posted on 07/11/2007 8:04:17 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: narses
he IS the valid successor to the Apostles,

Starting with whom?

Who was the frist head Apostle after Christ?

146 posted on 07/11/2007 8:15:46 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: jude24
Well my Roman Catholic brother -in-law told someone, in my earshot, that “ oh no she is not Catholic, she is a Christian”. So, tell it to your non-separated brethren!
147 posted on 07/11/2007 8:17:00 AM PDT by Bainbridge
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To: Revelation 911
Some of the hard core types here subscribe to the beliefs of Hilaire Belloc, a last century French Catholic supremacist.
He contended that Protestantism and Muhammadanism are both just heretical deviations of the Truth.
One has to wonder how much of that thinking is also Ratzingers.
148 posted on 07/11/2007 8:19:49 AM PDT by Bainbridge
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To: Bainbridge
Some of the hard core types here subscribe to the beliefs of Hilaire Belloc, a last century French Catholic supremacist. He contended that Protestantism and Muhammadanism are both just heretical deviations of the Truth.

Only some???? ROTFL!

149 posted on 07/11/2007 8:22:37 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (As heard on the Amish Radio Network! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1675029/posts)
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To: LeGrande

Oh, well a scientist! That is a whole other religion in itself!


150 posted on 07/11/2007 8:23:37 AM PDT by Bainbridge
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To: D-fendr
Jesus founded His Church with Peter as its head to be kept and transmitted through apostolic succession

psst - Peter was NOT the lead Apostle after the crucifiction =

That guy on the right was - and he didn't die until 62 AD

This iconic painting, done back when you could become a human torch for going against the church, was one of those 'coded message' paintings...

151 posted on 07/11/2007 8:25:25 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: Brandie

I am no fan of any church who claims to be the one true church.

I choose to put faith in God, not any man dressed in robes.


152 posted on 07/11/2007 8:26:47 AM PDT by JRochelle (Vacant Lott needs to be evicted from the Senate.)
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To: Bainbridge
Well my Roman Catholic brother -in-law told someone, in my earshot, that “ oh no she is not Catholic, she is a Christian”. So, tell it to your non-separated brethren!

It's just as ignorant coming from his mouth.

153 posted on 07/11/2007 8:32:06 AM PDT by jude24 (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: JRochelle
I choose to put faith in God, not any man dressed in robes.

;o)

And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,...And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation(Mark)

154 posted on 07/11/2007 8:41:06 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
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To: jude24
As you all are fond of pointing out the many types of Protestants, I would submit that there are just as many variations on Roman Catholicism. In fact, there are those who claim to be RC that believe virtually nothing of traditional, "small o" orthodox Christianity. And yet, you would maintain that they are all, still, at least in the One True Church. Kinda makes it a magic institution though as just being "in it" can provide salvation.
155 posted on 07/11/2007 8:44:03 AM PDT by Bainbridge
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To: xzins
Claud, where the rubber meets the road is Jesus saying that those who worship must worship in Spirit and in Truth. Those who teach obvious, made-up UNTRUTH cannot be the true Church,

Yes indeed, and that is EXACTLY what this document is saying. Only you think that the Reformation doctrines of the 16th century are the pure Gospel, unalloyed and uncorrupted....and we think (with better reason IMHO) that those doctrines are exactly the kind of made-up untruth that you condemn.

But for *where we think the Truth to lie*, we are in perfect agreement.

156 posted on 07/11/2007 8:59:26 AM PDT by Claud
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To: LeGrande; betty boop; Mad Dawg; xzins; .30Carbine; Quix; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg
That settles it! The Pope says that none of you are proper Christians.

LOLOL! There are also people who say I'm just a figment of their imagination. That doesn't bother me either.

Moreover, if we Christians are falsely accused for our testimony in Jesus Christ, it heaps eternal blessings upon us.

Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. - Matt 5:11-12

So, "thank you" to everyone who interpreted Pope Benedict's remarks to mean that we who are not of the Roman Catholic Church are somehow, second class Christians!

157 posted on 07/11/2007 9:21:35 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: danneskjold
If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...

I think the word "improper" is an interpolation by the Daily Mail writer, not the Pope's actual word.

158 posted on 07/11/2007 9:29:47 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: jude24
As usual, your analysis is "on the money".

What I find more interesting is that this suggests a little fuzziness around the edges of extra ecclesium nulla salus - you don't, strictly speaking, need to be a communicant in the Roman or Eastern churches to be a Christian.

Correct. Anyone who is validly baptized (and the vast majority of Protestant baptisms would count as valid) would be considered to be a Christian.

As far as EENS is concerned, everyone who is saved will be saved by being incorporated into Christ's one church. There's no Baptist heaven or Methodist heaven or Lutheran heaven, there's only Catholic (or catholic or universal) heaven.

(Disunity is always either sin or the consequence of sin, and heaven means being cleansed from all sin and all of its consequences, hence, there is no disunity in heaven.)

How, exactly, that works out in an individual case is something we'll have to leave up to God.

159 posted on 07/11/2007 9:40:04 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: indcons

I’d call this a papal smear.


160 posted on 07/11/2007 9:41:51 AM PDT by wolfinator
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