Archdiocese says sometimes ‘Catholic’ isn’t Catholic

Catholic Online ^ | October 23, 2006 | Maryangela Layman Román

[NYer]

My purpose in posting this thread is not to stir up rancor with those who worship at an SSPX Chapel. Rather, it is to point out that not all 'catholic' churches are Catholic.

This point was driven home recently when several friends insisted that a particula 'catholic' church was fully Catholic when, in fact, it is part of the Polish National Catholic Church. One woman practically called me a liar because her pastor (this is my former parish) assists the priests at this particular church!

I will be distributing this article to her and the other Catholics who are ignorant about the various churches that call themselves 'catholic' when they are not in communion with the Magisterium.

[Claud]

I have no idea how a prelate can attest that attendance at the SSPX chapel does not fulfill the Sunday obligation when a) I believe Rome has said the exact opposite, and b) how in the world could an Eastern Orthodox Divine liturgy fulfill your obligation and an SSPX Mass cannot?

[Salvation]

**According to Zabrina Decker, vice chancellor of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, the answer is no. **

Correct!

[Pyro7480]

If you attend the service conducted in Latin in the Tridentine rite by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X, would you have fulfilled your Sunday Mass obligation?

According to Zabrina Decker, vice chancellor of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, the answer is no.

That actually isn't true. From Letter by Msgr. Camille Perl Regarding Society of St. Pius X Masses

Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was "Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass" and our response was:

"1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."

His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:

"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

That said, the article mentions, For individuals wanting to worship in a pre-Vatican II rite, Father Robert Skeris, chaplain of the archdiocesan Tridentine community, offers Mass weekly at St. Mary, Help of Christians Parish, West Allis, Wis. - with the permission of Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan.

[Pyro7480]

See my #5.

[Claud]

Thanks for the document...that's where I must have seen it.

[Salvation]

I was merely agree with the chancellor of the Archdiocese of Milwaukkee.

[Pyro7480]

But the vice chancellor's answer is wrong.

[sitetest]

Dear Claud,

The article is clearly in error regarding SSPX chapels. However, the article also references other "Catholic" churches where things are considerably murkier, like these folks:

"According to Bishop Sherman R. Mosley, 'legally we are Roman since we were never excommunicated. There never was a bull of excommunication from Rome saying we were.' He added, to avoid confusion, the church uses the name Old Catholic Church of America, (OCCA)."

With some of the other churches mentioned, it's very unclear just what their affiliation might be.

I guess the author - and if he has accurately reported, the archdiocese - has used a rather broad brush, perhaps out of a sense of prudence, not wishing to get layfolks into the habit of discerning between this and that non-Catholic church as to which have a real Mass and which do not.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Claud,

All the above being said, nonetheless, the official of the archdiocese seems woefully ignorant of Catholic teaching:

"'We are not ex-priests,' wrote Baiocchi, who was ordained in 1960 as a priest of the Archdiocese of Chicago, in response to e-mailed questions from your Catholic Herald. 'Catholic theology states that once we are ordained, we are ordained forever. Canon law demands that we respond to the sacramental and eucharistic needs of the people upon their request. That is what we are doing. Our 'Eucharist' is valid and warmly celebratory. Our sacramental ministry is vivid and valid, too, much to the chagrin and frequent denial of some.'

"Decker denies Baiocchi’s claim of validity.

“'The public practice of priesthood is what we focus on,' she explained. 'The public practice of that ministry is what we can regulate, so according to canon law a priest is not allowed to marry and if he chooses to violate that, the consequence is that his bishop or archbishop can restrict his public ministry because he is not adhering to the canons of the church.'

"While Decker said she did not know the circumstances surrounding the three men at Jesus Our Shepherd, she said 'by their actions, they have chosen to separate themselves and now they are trying to justify that.' She added that they cannot validly celebrate the Eucharist in the eyes of the church."

Obviously, if the priest was validly ordained in the Church, no matter what his current clerical status, he may validly confect the Blessed Sacrament.

I don't know where Ms. Decker gets her information.


sitetest

[technochick99]

I find it upsetting that these Churches are disobedient and still call/represent themselves as Catholic. What part of 'communion with Rome' don't they understand?

[Kolokotronis]

" how in the world could an Eastern Orthodox Divine liturgy fulfill your obligation and an SSPX Mass cannot?"

Is it true that attendence at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy fulfills a Roman Catholic's Sunday Obligation?

[Claud]

Thanks for the confirmation--I confess to not knowing what the Old Catholic situation is, but I was pretty confident that attendence at SSPX chapels was frowned upon but not entirely verboten.

The broad brushes DO tend to come out in the chanceries when we are talking about traditionalism. ;)

pinging jrny, for his words of wisdom.

[Coleus]

For individuals wanting to worship in a pre-Vatican II rite, Father Robert Skeris, chaplain of the archdiocesan Tridentine community, offers Mass weekly at St. Mary, Help of Christians Parish, West Allis, Wis. - with the permission of Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan. >>>>

Yes, that ONE church is licit, the other 7 listed are not licit. I've been to many Tridentine masses at a chuch in my diocese because the church is "fully approved" by the bishop. The church is listed in our diocesan directory. However, there are others in the area that are NOT approved and NOT under the authority of the local ordinary. These are the people who believe the freemasons conducted a black mass at the vatican and do not recognize any Pope since Pius XII. Catholics should stay away from them.

[murphE]

I was merely agree with the chancellor of the Archdiocese of Milwaukkee.

I agree with the title. Sometimes what is called "Catholic" isn't Catholic.

SOURCE

[NYer]

That actually isn't true.

The article, however, also states:

In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.

1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.

2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.

---

No matter how you look at it, those who attend Mass at an SSPX Chapel do so for the Tridentine Mass, albeit illicit. And sitetest has picked up on the tone of this article which is to draw attention to the confusion that results from seeing the word 'catholic' next to a church's name. Clearly, no Roman (or Eastern) Catholic should be attending Mass at a Polish National Church or one affiliated with the Old Catholic Church.

[Teófilo]

While the archdiocese doesn’t recognize these churches as Catholic, the congregations themselves consider themselves part of the Roman Catholic Church.

I consider myself an alien from the planet Vulcan. Therefore, logically, I must be a Vulcan.

-Theo

[Salvation]

You will be glad to know that I vehemently disagree with Roger Cardinal Mahoney and his "goings-on" in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. LOL!

Pray for the people of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles that they may find truth in their Catholic Church.

[murphE]

Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.

As are countless NO masses offered in every diocese in the world due to the blatant disregard for the rubrics by not only priests but bishops as well.