Orthodox-Catholic consultation reviews relations between churches

Catholic News Agency ^ | October 28, 2005

[NYer]

Washington DC, Oct. 28, 2005 (CNA) - More than a dozen clerics and theologians gathered in Washington last week to consider and discuss the advancements in Orthodox-Catholic relations, in particular in the last 40 years.

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation held its 69th meeting Oct. 20-22 at Georgetown University. It was co-chaired by Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk of Cincinnati and Bishop Savas of Troas, the Chancellor of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese. Bishop Savas substituted for Metropolitan Maximos of Pittsburgh, who is still recovering from a recent fall.

Fr. Brian Daley, SJ, began the session with a public lecture entitled “Forty Years of Orthodox-Catholic Relations.” He provided the history and significance of the consultation’s achievements in recent decades.

Participants continued their reflection with an examination of two texts. The first was the 1991 Agreed Statement of the Orthodox-Catholic dialogue in France entitled, “The Roman Primacy Within the Communion of Churches.” The second was an article by Jean-Marie Tillard, “The Mission of the Bishop of Rome: What is Essential, What is Expected?”

In the second theological session, participants heard a paper by Fr. Thomas FitzGerald, “The Orthodox-Oriental Orthodox Theological Dialogue,” and one by Fr. Ronald Roberson, “The Contemporary Relationship of the Catholic Church with the Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Assyrian Church of the East.” Rev Nicholas Apostola presented a paper, entitled “Primacy in a Pluralistic Context”, on Saturday morning.

Numerous issues were addressed during an information session Friday evening, including the announcement of readiness of the Orthodox Church to resume the International Dialogue; developments in relations between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia; the transfer of the headquarters of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church from Lviv to Kiev; the election of Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem; the possible visit of Pope Benedict XVI to Constantinople; and the inclusion of two Greek Catholics in the “Synaxis of the Carpathian Saints” issued by Metropolitan Nicholas of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese.

Four new members were also welcomed. The new Orthodox members are Dr. John Barnet, associate professor of New Testament at St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Seminary in Crestwood, N.Y., and Rev Dr Theodore Pulcini, associate professor of religion at Dickinson College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. The new Catholic members are Sr. Susan Wood, SCL, professor in the department of theology at Marquette University, and Vito Nicastro, associate director of the Office for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs in Boston.

The 70th meeting of the Consultation is scheduled for June 5-7, 2006, in Boston.

The Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas (SCOBA), the U.S. and Canadian bishops jointly sponsor the event. Since its establishment in 1965, the Consultation has issued 22 agreed statements, which are available at: http://www.usccb.org/seia/dialogues.htm

[paudio]

This is good. I'd like to see all Christian churces to cooperate with each other. Not under one organization, but at least they communicate with each other.

[JohnRoss]

The Orthodox should tell the Roman Catholics, "We'll talk when you stop trying to ape the Protestants."

[SaltyJoe]

"We'll talk when you stop trying to ape the Protestants."

This would be against teachings of Jesus and counter productive the mission of the Church.

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http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew18.htm

Matthew 18: 12-14

12
What is your opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?
13
And if he finds it, amen, I say to you, he rejoices more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not stray.
14
In just the same way, it is not the will of your heavenly Father that one of these little ones be lost.

---

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew18.htm

Isaiah 49:15
Can a mother forget her infant, be without tenderness for the child of her womb? Even should she forget, I will never forget you.

---

Mother Church is shepherd to even the lost sheep that have separated themselves from Jesus' flock. It would not be in the interest of Love for God to leave such sheep abandoned. And should these lost sheep be devoured by the beast, a good shepherd yet returns the bloodied fleece to His Master so that in demonstrating such evidence all was done that could be done to save the sheep from everlasting destruction.

---

And what of those who return to Mother Church?

Luke 15:

22
But his father ordered his servants, 'Quickly bring the finest robe and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.
23
Take the fattened calf and slaughter it. Then let us celebrate with a feast,
24
because this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.' Then the celebration began.

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All of Heaven celebrates the return of one sinner more than the multitude of Saints and Angels who've never strayed. Such a Joy must give Jesus an adrenaline rush like nothing else. If it is our mission to please Our King as such, then we cannot dismiss our duties of love for Him and His Love for all.

[Kolokotronis]

" ...and the inclusion of two Greek Catholics in the “Synaxis of the Carpathian Saints” issued by Metropolitan Nicholas of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese."

I never knew this. This is big! Either of you know anything about this?

[NYer]

I never knew this. This is big! Either of you know anything about this?

No ... what is the Synaxis of the Carpathian Saints?

I did follow a link to scoba that lists the ecumenical resources. You can read all the documents here:
RESOURCES AND TEXTS

[JohnRoss]

Better true unity than false unity. The Novus Ordo Missae and the Liturgy of the Hours have nothing in common with Orthodox liturgiology.

[SaltyJoe]

A simple test of Faith in Jesus' power. Did Jesus in fact change the water into wine at the wedding of Canaan? Was it just a symbol? Was it only flavored water tasting like wine? Or, were the guests too drunk to know the difference?

Most conservative Protestants will understand the definition of "is" and find a former US President's perjury of his sexual relationship to be repugnant.

Thus, knowing full well the definition of "is", most Christians should recognize the Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist when he clearly states, "this is my body."
http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/luke22.html

When non-Apostalic Christian Faiths recognize the power of God's Word, when they must understand that His miracles were not mere symbolism. They'll be that much closer to being inside the Shepherd's fold then outside the gate.

[Kolokotronis]

"what is the Synaxis of the Carpathian Saints?"

A Synaxis is a grouping or an assembly. What this means is that the Orthodox hierarch for Orthodox Carpathians in America has added some Catholic Carpathians to the list of Orthodox Carpathian saints. This is really quite extraordinary...and a good thing too, to my way of thinking.

[Teófilo]

The Orthodox should tell the Roman Catholics, "We'll talk when you stop trying to ape the Protestants."

Roman Catholics should, in turn, tell Orthodoxs that...wait a minute! Who speaks for the Orthodox? Let me see, let me count the heads...1 2 3 4 5...

I guess we'll have to wait.

-Theo

[JohnRoss]

I think there is a general Orthodox consensus the Roman Catholic Church walked the plank of catholicity at Vatican II, especially when it has to do with liturgics, monasticism and spirituality.

SCOBA speaks for the Orthodox in the U.S.

[RKBA Democrat]

"I never knew this. This is big! Either of you know anything about this?"

No. Hadn't heard a thing about it. Any idea which Saints?

Out of curiosity, which Orthodox church is the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese? I know that the Orthodox churches are broken down on more or less national lines, but it gets confusing in Ukraine, Russia, and Poland. Are they from the same area as the Ruthenian Catholics?

[Kolokotronis]

"American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese?"

It is part of the GOA and under the EP. I think the parishioners are mostly the descendants of Ruthenians though I hear there is a large convert contingent.

Here's a link: http://www.acrod.org/

[RKBA Democrat]

"It is part of the GOA and under the EP. I think the parishioners are mostly the descendants of Ruthenians though I hear there is a large convert contingent."

Yeah, I did some research and these are the descendants of the eastern Catholics in the U.S. who fell out with Rome after "cum data fuerit."

[FormerLib]

Who speaks for the Orthodox? Let me see, let me count the heads...1 2 3 4 5...

The correct answer is all of them. The Church of Jesus Christ is ruled by no human.

[Larry Lucido]

Most conservative Protestants will understand the definition of "is"

I think I got it. Jesus speaks in hyperbole when he admonishes "call no man Father," but is incapable of being metaphoric when he says "this is My body." It's clearer now - thanks. :-)

[SaltyJoe]

From Catholic Answers

http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

"(Jesus) was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15). We are all subject to "the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16)."

[SaltyJoe]

Another way to separate the hyperbole from the Miraculous Reality is to ask "Why must we consume Jesus' Flesh and drink His Blood?"

The best way I can understand that is from personal perspective--that we are creatures. Creatures must consume to remain alive. Even angels must consume. Perhaps J.R.R. Tolkien might call this "elvish bread", but we even have many Old Testament references to the Eucharist (Tobit describes St Raphael as eating what appeared to men as meat).

Even satan is doomed to consume, but he doesn't have God's Presence to feed him. Rather he must eat "dirt", he must eat man for we are "dirt" (Gen 3:19). Even Dante's Inferno describes satan "eating" the souls of the damned. The wicked can be described as being "consumed" by their sin. In fact, the worse the addiction to sin, the worse the cannibalism. (I've researched just such evidence with homosexual homicides:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/bitemarks/2.html

"He goes on to point out that homosexual homicides, when they have bite-marks involved, tend to have them on the back, arms, shoulders, face, and scrotum of the victim.")

How does being in Communion with Christ deliver us from sin?

It's "Grace" that God feeds us since we are first spiritual creatures and it is our soul that will endure beyond the flesh. God feeds us with His speech, for His mere speech is Power that creates. With a simple command, "Let there be light" God creates that which can know Him.

Jesus is the "Word" of God, not just a lower case letter but with a capital "W" (Bush ought to like that).


In chapter 34 of Exodus, the mere conversation that Moses has with God causes the prophet to be "radiant":

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/effulgent

adjective
1 beaming, beamy, effulgent, radiant, refulgent

radiating or as if radiating light; "the beaming sun"; "the effulgent daffodils"; "a radiant sunrise"; "a refulgent sunset"

"Radiant" also describes power.

This is what happened when God puts His Word into us.

Another summary of a personal experience:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1506344/posts?page=5#5

"A devotion to the Rosary and Holy Eucharist has helped me reverse my life of bad habits. The deeper I search for an understanding to Our Blessed Virgin and the Mysteries of the Holy Eucharist, the less I find vices attractive. The Rosary has helped me forgive those who've hurt me, and the Eucharist helps me remember my faults (especially to those I've slighted). With a changing heart, I'm sensitive of my actions. I've become a child again, a child who sees the world and all it's beauty with a new splendor and a new life to discover. And more importantly, I see God in a Divine Mercy that I could not have seen when in the grip of sin. I see better how much He Loves us."

The mother/child relationship.

Apostolic Faiths know that we can never honor the Blessed Virgin enough!

There is a connection with a mother and her offspring that is beyond a familiar mother/child intimacy but something sacred. Why else would God command Moses, "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk." Exodus 34

Our Christ nourishes us with far greater Graces than what a loving mother offers when nursing her offspring.

St Don Bosco's Dream of the two Pillars:

http://www.sspx.ca/Angelus/1985_June/Two_Pillars.htm

The Blessed Virgin is the Vessel of Purity. We must moor ourselves to Purity before reaching for the Fruit of Life, the Eucharist. As would be impossible for Jesus, Purity Eternal, to be served on a dirty dish, the Virgin Mary had to herself be unstained of original sin. Similarly, we too must be without sin before being in Communion with Christ. This is an uncompromising Truth of a soul's relationship with God.

Why are the Sacraments a physical expression using physical substance?

I see it as this: because God created our existence. He uses the things around us to bring Us closer to Him. The substance of this world is not "evil" since it wasn't made by evil. No, God created the world and saw that it is "good". Jesus gave us the Holy Eucharist to give us an unbloodied and appetizing feast for the soul. What we might initially find repulsive is our pride fooling our spiritual senses. We have to give our trust to His Promise of our Salvation. We owe Him our obedience, and in remembrance of His Sacrifice, we continue in Apostolic succession to revere and accept the Holy Eucharist.

The Holy Eucharist is the ultimate Leap of Faith that brings us a Martyr's reward without our unworthy human sacrifice, but is paid for with Jesus' Sacrifice. It is not a poet hyperbole but the Divine Reality to our Eternal Salvation.

[SaltyJoe]

"By dislodging and overcoming every obstacle, the new Pope managed to steer the ship up to the two pillars and on arriving between them, he tied it with a chain which hung from the prow to an anchor of the pillar on top of which there was the Host; then with another chain he tied it from the side opposite to another anchor attached to the pillar on which was placed the Immaculate Virgin."