Posted on 04/13/2005 9:30:29 PM PDT by Cato1
ping
Interesting.
The Eastern rites think the Roman rite is strange that we destroyed our own tradition. In the history of all the rites, it's unprecedented.
The greatest danger today is precisely this. If this attitude prevails, Luther wins, and he doesn't deserve to.
Ping.
R. has written extensively on the problem, and his insight is accurate, pointed, and useful.
Interesting way of handling VatII. Much of the article seems to say precisely that it is a breach, but this is something that cannot be said openly. It would be a direct indictment of the powerful people who engineered VatII's "reforms" and kept them in place even though it was obvious that they were driving Catholics away from the Church in droves, and might even bring up questions of the validity of the Mass in certain places and times.
Ratzinger himeself was involved in the initial VatII liturgical "reforms," btw, but he seems to have realized very early that the direction the "reforms" were taking was seriously wrong, and since then has worked to restore things to their proper places.
In terms of the liturgy (and many other things), I think VatII was a serious breach, but for the sake of harmony and the future, we're going to have to simply pass over it as a "development," hopefully leading to another "development" in the near future where the Roman liturgy is restored in a more traditional form.
I had heard that he was involved, but I believe the movement for liturgical reform was underway at least by the 50s, before VatII. (Lucile Hasley mentions it in an essay from that time, and we were learning sung "responsorial psalms" in school by '58.) I expect different people for reform/"reform" worked and hoped for very different things. I would find it difficult to believe that Ratzinger was ever a contributor to the self-glorification that other posters have mentioned (which seems to be fading in recent years, though not enough).
The liturgical reform movement has actually been underway for quite some time, and there really (IMHO) was a need for a limited sort of reform, consisting mostly of making the priests actually celebrate the mass properly (instead of doing the 12 minute low mass "celebrated" in a buzzing whisper with the altar boys bobbing so fast they looked like ducks). Certainly, there were other things that could have been cleaned up, too, and I didn't object to things like the "dialogue mass," the people saying aloud the prayers normally said in response by the altar boys and those parts that had originally been meant for the entire congregation to say. And I also liked the priest's prayers being said audibly and intelligibly, because they are very beautiful and meaningful liturgical prayers.
But somehow the whole thing just escaped. There's a good article by Fr. Brian Harrison in this month's Latin Mass Magazine, discussing this very fact. Most bishops surveyed before the council either were not interested in liturgical changes, or were in favor of very limited ones (such as the above, which were stylistic and not changes to the essential liturgy). A very tiny percentage was in favor of radical changes - yet somehow, he points out, only three years later, this tiny group of "liturgical leftists" somehow got through a program for sweeping changes that were much more dramatic than anybody had expected. Once these changes were obediently accepted, they were followed a couple of years later by another round of changes (including the removal of altar rails, Communion in the hand, the Mass facing the people, etc.) undreamed of by even the earlier group of liturgical leftists.
I don't think Ratzinger was a contributor to this last phase, certainly, and obviously many people, no doubt including Ratzinger, who were involved in the first part of the "reforms" had any idea of the extent to which such "reforms" would be carried only a few years later.
Thankfully, for the most part, the TLM is celebrated today in an unhurried, participatory, and meaningful way. The 12 minute Low Mass is a relic of history. Much still has to be done in the way of getting more vocal participationl, especially at High Mass. Where priests take a keen interest in inspiring their congregants with liturgical richness, many many good things come about. Mater Ecclesiae in NJ is a case in point as to the workings of a devoted, liturgically minded pastor, and is an example of how the TLM was always and must continue to be celebrated and incorporated in the lives of the faithful. This was and is true liturgical reform as opposed to liturgical revision/reinvention.
He had me for a while, until I got to the last statement, which sent a shiver down my back.
Personally, the liturgical movement in place before V2 was accomplishing a lot of good. I also believe that the TLM, as it exists today, is the real fruit of what V2 called for (i.e. liturgical participation, singing in Latin, etc.)
If a new liturgical movement is needed, and I believe it is, it already exists in the various liturgically rich ceremonies being carried out in TLM churches. This goes beyond Sunday Mass. We're talking about daily Mass, sometimes High Weekday Masses, public and fully chanted Divine Offices such as Vespers and Tenebrae, 40 hours, all the outside of Mass ceremonies (e,g. Processions)of the liturgical year being observed in full splendor, etc.
I mentioned on another thread that I recall reading (30 years ago maybe?) that the leftists had their agenda all planned out and started pushing it through while those bishops without an agenda "were still finding their seats and brushing up their Latin."
BTW, where did people find those "12-minute" Masses? I was in high school when the changes started coming in, but went to a lot of pre-VII daily Masses in jr high; they usually lasted at least half an hour; a 25-minute Mass was considered speedy!
He makes a subtle, and easily missed, point in the article that this "tiny percentage" (all from northern European countries, notably Germany) showed up organised, and with a well developed agenda. It is, therefore, unsurprising that they prevailed. I suspect that they "Delphi'd" the Council.
Everything you say may be well and good, but the statement I quoted is frighteningly vague.
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