[Cato1]

ping

[patriciaruth]

Interesting.

[nickcarraway]

The Eastern rites think the Roman rite is strange that we destroyed our own tradition. In the history of all the rites, it's unprecedented.

[annalex]

Then the community is celebrating only itself, an activity that is utterly fruitless

The greatest danger today is precisely this. If this attitude prevails, Luther wins, and he doesn't deserve to.

[Kolokotronis]

Excellent reflection on what has happened in the Latin Rite over the past 40+ years. The cardinal's observation about a community celebrating itself is particularly accurate. Those of us in The Church are to understand that we work out our theosis within a liturgical community, a Eucharistic community as the Fathers have said. Our Eucharistic celebration is for us, but not about us. The Liturgy is where heaven and earth intersect and we join the communion of saints and the Cherubim and Seraphim, six winged and many eyed, singing the victory hymn to our Triune God and partaking of the Body and Blood of our God to the salvation of our souls.

A human community which celebrates itself celebrates the World, not God. Lex orandi, lex credendi.

[narses]

Ping.

[livius]

that understands Vatican II, not as a breach, but as a stage of development...

Interesting way of handling VatII. Much of the article seems to say precisely that it is a breach, but this is something that cannot be said openly. It would be a direct indictment of the powerful people who engineered VatII's "reforms" and kept them in place even though it was obvious that they were driving Catholics away from the Church in droves, and might even bring up questions of the validity of the Mass in certain places and times.

Ratzinger himeself was involved in the initial VatII liturgical "reforms," btw, but he seems to have realized very early that the direction the "reforms" were taking was seriously wrong, and since then has worked to restore things to their proper places.

In terms of the liturgy (and many other things), I think VatII was a serious breach, but for the sake of harmony and the future, we're going to have to simply pass over it as a "development," hopefully leading to another "development" in the near future where the Roman liturgy is restored in a more traditional form.

[murphE]

"This is why we need a new Liturgical Movement, which will call to life the real heritage of the Second Vatican Council."

He had me for a while, until I got to the last statement, which sent a shiver down my back.

[rogator]

"These changes, in turn, took very different forms at the local level, so that here, too, one frequently could not ascertain the boundary between what was still Catholic and what was no longer Catholic."

Isn't this where we are at right now?

[John Locke]

I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing today is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the liturgy

And I am convinced he is right. Lex orandi, lex credendi.

Restoring the Tridentine Mass is only the first step, but it is the necessary first step.

[Lady In Blue]

Ping for a later read this afternoon. Thanks for the thread.

[murphE]

But will he have a papal coronation?