Traditional Catholic Church Catechism (Vanity)

28 February 2004 | Captain Rhino

[Captain Rhino]

This is a question relating to Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion" and the "controversy" concerning his Traditionalist Catholic beliefs. There has been a lot of well...frankly, a lot of mischevious talk about his "traditionalist" views and head nodding about the Catholic Church's release of teaching guides to "assist" Catholics in understanding the movie from a church perspective. Frankly, I'm alittle confused since everything that has been said about the portrayal thus far seems to comport with the current catechism of the Catholic Church.

So I am doing some on-line research specifically trying to determine if there is any difference between the pre-Vatican II catechism and the post-Vatican II catechism concerning the trial and execution of Jesus.

I have been able to find the Second Edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on-line. (Here's a link to portion dealing with the trial and execution of Jesus: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a4p2.htm ) However, this document is post-Vatican II. I have been unsuccessful thus far in locating an equivalent pre-Vatican II text. When I search under the words "Traditional Catholic Church Catechism" or variations there of, the catechisms I get are basically question and response memorization cards for confirmation classes. So I am unable to lay pre- and post- Vatican II catechism texts side by side and see the difference - if there is any.

I would appreciate any assistance in either 1) locating a website with a detailed Traditional Catholic Church catechism or 2) looking at the post-Vatican II website and telling me if the two differ in their theology on this issue.

[Captain Rhino]

My first post of a direct question on Free Republic. So, if I have violated some protocol, let me know so I can fix it or get it fixed.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Pinging you two to this, perhaps you can answer his question.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Try the Baltimore Catechism is you can find it.

[AAABEST]

On my site I have a links page that takes to you the Baltimore Catechism (pre v-2).

http://www.angelqueen.org/links.shtml

The paperback is published by Catholic Book Publishing Company.

You can buy it online at the Angelus Press website.

Let me know if you need any further help.

:)

[Phx_RC]

You need a copy of: "The Catechism of the Council of Trent"
Ordered by the Council of Trent, edited under St. Charles Borromeo, published by decree of Pope Saint Pius V.

This is available as are many other good Catholic books from TAN Books and Publishers, Rockford,Illinois

The Catechism of the Council of Trent: http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/207/

Articles IV & V -- Pages 50 thru 72 contain what you want.

Separate from the above but very good are:
"A Catechism of Modernism":
http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/15/

"Liberalism is a Sin":
http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/394/

[AAABEST]

TAN is pretty good. What they often do is revive out of publication pre-Vat II material.

I'm looking at one of their short (32 page) books called "Marriage Quizzes" right now. It was originally published by "Radio Press". TAN got the copyright in 1974.

[Captain Rhino]

Thanks to everyone who read and replied to my question. I have some good leads now.

[Phx_RC]

Thank you for the link to an on-line Baltimore Catechism #3.
That is a valuable addition to a "favorites" list

In addition and for younger people:
"The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism #1" for ages 8-10 and
"The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism #2" for ages 11-14
These two volumes through the abundance of explanations and illustrations greatly enhance the teaching of the truths of our Faith contained in the Baltimore Catechisms #1 and 2.

There is an illustration on page 41 of the NSJBC#2 that could be used by a parent to teach that as each mortal sin is commited it is as another strike of a hammer by the sinner, to a spike piercing a Divine Hand of Our Lord on the Cross.

This point was strongly made by Mel Gibson regarding the "Passion" in an interview on EWTN with Raymond Arroyo.

The illustration shows a boy, wearing a red shirt with the word "SIN" on the back, holding onto a partly driven spike with his left hand while in his uplifted right hand is a hammer ready to strike yet another blow.

Catechetics should strive with a holy zeal to be effective.

[Phx_RC]

Thank you for including FSSP in your list of links.

Does the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter have a list of parishes where we might go to attend a traditional Latin Mass?

If you find such a list it would be a great service to us all if you could include it on your site.

[Dajjal]

http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/master2.htm
Nazareth Master Catechism

This "Master Catechism" hyperlinks parallel sections from five catechisms:
A catechism by St. Thomas Aquinas
The Trent Catechism
The Baltimore Catechism (No.3 = Adult Version)
The Catechism of St. Pius X
and the new "Catechism of the Catholic Church"

The CCC is post-Vatican II. All the others are prior to V-2.

[marcus29]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1086460/posts

This was posted a couple days ago to highlight a few points

[catholic]

You can find anything you want to ever learn concerning the CC at www.newadvent.org. And there is no difference in pre and post Vat.11 teachings on the Crucifixion of Jesus. The media would like for everyone to believ that MG is weird,but there are many Traditional Catholics. They simply are very conservative and do the Mass in Latin. Let me know if you can not find what you need.

[Unam Sanctam]

The Catholic Church is the same church, before and after Vatican II. The traditionalist schismatics embrace the modernist heresy that it is a new Church after Vatican II. Like the modernists, they are wrong.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

http://www.fssp.com/main/uscan.html

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/

[Captain Rhino]

Thanks for the link. I was able to find it (eventually) using the suggestions from the first postings in response to my question. It turns out the link I gave in my original question ( http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a4p2.htm ) is actually a subsequent revision of the 1992 catechism that further elaborates the church's position on the Passion. So that makes a sixth version of the catechism. Thanks again for your assistance.

[Captain Rhino]

Thanks for the link.