Flags in Classrooms - UCF

UCF Campus News ^ | 09/12/2003 | John C. Hitt, President UCF

[Tank-FL]

The request to place donated flags in classrooms at the University of Central Florida presents the University with two clear choices. We can accept the flags and proudly display them in our classrooms as symbols of the political entity that guarantees our freedom of speech, our right to dissent, the rights of political minorities, and our tradition of democracy. Or, we can decline the offer of the flags and by that act cede to one political group our national symbol, likely making it a pawn in ongoing culture wars between groups jockeying for momentary advantage in what is often a low political process. The choice is, for me, simple and compelling. UCF will accept and proudly display the flags in our classrooms. In doing so, we affirm our flag as a powerful unifying symbol. It belongs to all Americans, right, left, center, or undecided. It must not be co-opted as the symbol of any one group or party.

What of the effects of this decision on our academic enterprise? I am sure that there will be some who use the occasion to create or exploit controversy, but I must reject in the strongest terms the suggestion that the presence of the flag inhibits free speech. The flag is symbolic of the very constitution and government that guarantee our rights of democracy and free speech. Were you to seek redress from actions that you believed denied you free speech, you would do so in federal court, where you would find the flag on prominent display.

I have been a strong advocate and protector of individual and group rights on our campus since the day I assumed its presidency. My administration will continue to protect the academic freedom and individual and group rights of all members of our campus community. We expect that all members of the community respect the rights of others and obey the laws of our state and nation and the rules and regulations of the University. It is a core value of academe that we respect the dignity and worth of all people.

[Tank-FL]

Well, well, well .. this is a suprise! This was in the Campus News email that went to all students.

[conservativemusician]

It's about time.

Still, he talks about protecting "group" rights.

WTF are group rights. Somebody inform him that this country was founded upon individual rights.

[SolutionsOnly]

That was a very well written letter. The only people that could possibly object to it are those very few that truly do hate the United States of America and all it stands for.

[Normal4me]

Story link

Radio show raises cash for flags at UCF

By David Damron | Sentinel Staff Writer Posted September 5, 2003

American flags are closer to unfurling in every classroom at the University of Central Florida after a radio host teamed with a campus group to raise money for banners that student government and UCF officials refused to buy.

About 200 flags were dropped off at campus Thursday. More will arrive today.

A UCF official said the school will supply the labor to install them. Flags should be up in about 300 classes within three weeks.

"It's a great thing for UCF students," said Heather Smith, president of Rebuilding on a Conservative Kornerstone, or ROCK, the group pushing for the flags.

Smith and other ROCK members say the national emblems are meant to show patriotism and support for U.S. troops in the Middle East.

ROCK lobbied student leaders last week to pledge $3,100 in student fees to buy the flags, but student-government leaders rebuffed them.

Some student representatives said they were fine with installing the flags, but they wanted the university -- not student fees -- to pay for them.

Other critics of the flag plan say the American symbols are being used as political weapons to show support of President Bush and U.S. intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan, issues that not all students agree on.

"The flag doesn't offend me personally," said UCF sophomore Matt De Vlieger, a native of Coral Springs. "The way it's being used does offend me."

Callers to Shannon Burke's morning show on 540 AM (WFLF) in Orlando provided money for the flags, Burke said. The state's Elks organization also donated more than $2,000, he said.

Burke said he was dismayed that student-government leaders turned down ROCK's funding request, so he asked listeners to chip in.

Burke said Smith was an intern with his radio show this summer, so he followed the flag issue closely. Burke shrugged off critics who say the flags are being used in a partisan way.

"The American flag transcends any political issue," Burke said.

David Damron can be reached at 407-420-5311 or ddamron@orlandosentinel.com.

[RonF]

Good. I strongly agree with the sentiments given here. Far too often the American Flag is looked upon as a political symbol, seemly being co-opted by military veterans and the political right. Loving the U.S.A., our form of government, and the rights whose defense is guaranteed by the Constitution all are entirely compatible with a liberal political viewpoint.

It is true that on occasion evil has been done in the name of America. Evil has been done in the name of God, yet that is no sound reason to reject either Him, His teachings, or His symbols. Anyone who looks at the flag and thinks of a few wrong things that have been done in its name, instead of all the other great things that have been done with it flying in the forefront, or the great things that this country is and stands for is a fool, and often mendacious to boot. This bears repeating:

The American flag transcends any political issue

[Just another Joe]

I can remember a time when there already was an American flag in every classroom I went into.
I applaude the man on his stand. The only thing is, there should not have to be a stand made.

[MAK1179]

"The American flag transcends any political issue,"

Damn right.

Personally, I don't care what people think about WHY an American flag is up within this nation where ever it may be. Any person(s) stating that it is hindering this or it's trying to force this or that on them can go to another country. This is the U.S.A. and the American flag stands for us, and what this country was, is, should and will be...If you are in this country, I don't care if your visiting...you will respect that or get the hell out. :)

[debaryfl]

The same "student leaders" that unanimously declined to fund the placement of American flags in classrooms prevously spent thousands ( > 10K ) on plasma televisions. They also funded a trip to CA for a NORML conference (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws).

It never ceases to amaze me how utterly stupid young people can be. Of course, all I really have to do is remember several decades back....

[=Intervention=]

" is looked upon as a political symbol, seemly being co-opted by military veterans and the political right."

By whom? Those who have a genetic inability to fly the flag under any circumstance, usually.

[Dixie Pirate]

I'm proud to say that my son is a freshman at UCF!

More folks should refuse to bow to politically correct idiots!

[Normal4me]

Yep and among other things, according to Shannon Burke (radio host), they spent thousands going to Wet and Wild, and paid Michael Moore $20,000 to come speak at the college. Priorities ya know....

[bmauer]

A point of clarification is needed here.

President Hitt's letter was written as a response to several questions put to him by student leaders. I will post their letter to him below and ask you to consider whether President Hitt has answered these questions to your satisfaction.


Greetings, President Hitt:

As student leaders on campus, we share concerns with other students, faculty, and community members about the placement of flags in every classroom. This act will affect the entire student body, as well as the academic environment. The university administration's rush to publicly support the posting of a flag in every classroom -- in the face of student opposition with no public discourse or discussion -- is alarming and dangerous to the democracy of this campus. Many concerns of the consequences of this action have yet to be addressed.

Students on campus are interested in preserving democracy on campus, expanding and honoring our constitutional right to free speech, and upholding just and fair rules and procedures and their enforcement. We want to foster an open line of communication between students and administration so that together we may work towards these common goals.

Therefore, in the spirit of justice and democracy, we submit to you the following questions and concerns.

1. Since flags in the classroom will affect the faculty as well as students, why wasn't the faculty senate consulted prior to your decision to publicly support ROCK's flag proposal?
2. Will faculty be punished for removing the flag, if they so choose, while they are using the classroom?
3. What are the consequences for anyone caught removing or damaging the flag?
4. Are you willing to weaken democratic principles on campus? If not, how do you justify your decision to act against the decision of the UCF Student Senate by favoring the ROCK proposal?
5. Students on campus who have voiced opposition to permanent flags in the classroom can provide documented reports of harassment from ROCK members and supporters. What will the university do to defend the free speech of those who oppose the placement of permanent flags in the classroom, and those who speak out on other controversial issues?
6. Are you against open and critical dialogue and academic debate about American values in the classroom? If not, how do you justify the presence of officially-sanctioned flags that may undermine such dialogue? How will you prevent the recurrence of intimidation tactics and harassment that may
also undermine dialogue?
7. Are you willing to abandon the goals of internationalization and diversity at UCF in order to have these flags? If not, why are you willing to accept flags from Shannon Burke, a talk-show host whose racism and homophobia are well-documented?
8. What would be the negative consequences of having flags placed in prominent areas of campus rather than in each classroom?
9. If you support free speech, why did your administration rule against the 2003-2004 Golden Rule Review Committee's decision to open the campus as a
free speech area?
10. If the flag is a symbol of free speech, should we not install them in the actual Free Speech areas on campus, which are otherwise unmarked, rather
than the classroom, in which freedom of speech does not apply?

We thank you in advance for your time and honest deliberation and answer of these questions. We request a reply at your earliest convenience so
that together we may move toward fair and just resolution of this issue as quickly as possible.

Respectfully submitted,

[various student leaders]

[TheAngryClam]

Notice that they've already planned vandalism, and are hoping to get the university President to say that punishment will be light (because vandalism is "free speech" in the Left's mind), or will be harsh (reinforcing their belief that the American flag is, in and of itself, fascist).

Lovely.

[bmauer]

AngryClam,

You had better be damned careful before you accuse people of "planning vandalism" or of planning anything illegal. That kind of accusation of guilt in advance is extremely dangerous, irresponsible, and detestable.

The question about "punishment" that the student leaders put to President Hitt is entirely appropriate. It is a question pertaining to university policy and, as such, is worthy of an answer from the president. By the way, no matter what he says in answer to that question (if he chooses to say anything at all), it will be unpleasant to many people. That the question is difficult or impossible to answer does not mean that it shouldn't be asked.

Barry

[TheAngryClam]

Having spent the most current six years of my life on college campuses in close proximity to the lefty student government types that infest them, I can state with 99% certainty that removal and/or destruction of those flags is exactly what these people have in mind.

Think about it- college campuses are where anything remotely conservative is either torn down (fliers), stolen (newspapers, both general and explicitly conservative), attacked, harassed, etc.

They know exactly what they're planning, and I'm certain that once these flags are installed, there will be multiple incidents of vandalism.

If they're really creative, they'll do like the student government at Berkeley and replace the American flag with one of these:



Seeing one of these irritates me even more than the ones that replace the stars in the field with a peace symbol.

What's really funny is that these flags are made and sold for a profit, and yet the stupid college kids don't see the obvious irony.

[TheAngryClam]

Incidentally, the militia referenced in my tagline isn't an actual one (Tom McClintock is currently the third place candidate for the recall election here in California).

I thought I ought to make that clear, seeing as you're from Florida and thus might be unfamiliar with the reference.

[bmauer]

I don't know how you get your statistics or what kind of mind reading abilities you have, but I find it hard to believe that you "can state with 99% certainty that removal and/or destruction of those flags is exactly what these people have in mind."

I have no doubt, however, that someone one day will inevitably get caught doing "something" to the flags and it will blow up into a scandal. I see no reason to invite that kind of result by putting flags in the classroom to begin with. There is no positive benefit to putting flags in the classrooms, and there are a number of negative consequences that will likely result. Furthermore, I see only confusion and further controversy resulting from the lack of a clear policy in regards to punishments for doing "something" to the flags.

As for the flag with corporate symbols substituting for stars -- why should that bother you? If it is true, as flag supporters suggest, that U.S. flags represent free speech, then surely you can't object to a myriad of different flags representing different things.

Barry

[Normal4me]

Is it to much to ask to have the flag of the USA displayed in a STATE university where undoubtedly students have secured GOVERMENT loans or received GOVERMENT grants in order to attend?

My whole point was that the students portrayed displaying the flag as an acknowledgedment/hatred of G.W.B. and the war efforts. These flags were eventually GIVEN to them (probably out of spite) by conserative thinking groups of people. If they refuse to display them then the public has a right to disregard them and everything the college stands for. I already think I know the mindset of liberal college students, but isn't it fun to confront them?

[bmauer]

I have heard several reasons that ROCK supporters have put forward to justify the permanent placement of U.S. flags in the classroom. None of them are persuasive or compelling.

"1) We live in America." I can't argue with that! Whether this means that we must have flags in the classrooms, however, seems like a stretch. We might ask whether we should have some public space in America where it is safe to question American values, beliefs, and behaviors. I believe we should and that the classroom at a public university is such a place.

"2) UCF is paid for by American tax dollars." A percentage of it is. Actually UCF gets little from the federal government directly except through some research grants. UCF gets money from the state of Florida, from tuition and fees, from donations and foundations, from partnerships, etc. The claim that "tax dollars must equal flags in classrooms" makes little sense to me. Would anyone who has a financial stake in the university get to decide what goes in the classrooms? (Note that the federal government is not pushing for flags in classrooms).

3) "Having the American flag in classroom does not silence people; it represents the right we have to free speech." I have studied censorship and it is a more complex issue than most people think. There are three basic types of censorship. The first is censorship at the point of distribution, in which there is a book or film that is out there but you are not allowed to get it. The second is censorship at the point of production, in which an editor or producer refuses to allow the production of a book or movie. The third and most pervasive (but least recognized and understood) is censorship at the level of though in which it is not even conceivable to articulate a certain position because the atmosphere is so hostile to it. Such was the case during the McCarthy era when it was inconceivable to even think about Marxist ideas. I am worried about creating a situation in which it is "inconceivable" to even think something that might be considered "unpatriotic." If we are training people at UCF to become leaders, we have to be willing to allow all kinds of thought in the classroom, even those that are unpopular.

4) "Preventing the permanent display of flags in the classrooms is tantamount to denying another's free speech to display the American flag." Not true. You are free to display the flag and I do not intend to nor do I want to take away that right. I am opposed to the permanent placement of flags in the classroom, which is not a free speech issue but a policy issue.

5) "Flags in classrooms are a way of supporting the troops." U.S. troops on the other side of the globe may be just as happy with flags in our classrooms as without them, or with flags in common areas of campus rather than in classrooms.

6) "Flags are great for decoration in the classrooms." For me, the classrooms are beautiful as they are, particularly when they have adequate instructional equipment in them. I see no need for added decoration.

Someone one day will inevitably get caught doing "something" to the flags and the incident will blow up into a scandal with much scapegoating and calls for severe punishment. There is no reason to invite that kind of result by putting flags in the classroom. There are no positive benefits to putting flags in the classrooms and there are a number of negative consequences that will likely result.

[bmauer]

In direct answer to your questions:

Is it to much to ask to have the flag of the USA displayed in a STATE university where undoubtedly students have secured GOVERMENT loans or received GOVERMENT grants in order to attend?

NO - THERE ALREADY IS A U.S. FLAG DISPLAYED PROMINENTLY AT THE UNIVERSITY IN FRONT OF MILLICAN HALL. NOBODY OBJECTS TO IT. WE DO OBJECT TO PERMANENTLY DISPLAYED FLAGS IN THE CLASSROOM.

My whole point was that the students portrayed displaying the flag as an acknowledgedment/hatred of G.W.B. and the war efforts.

AND AT A CAMPUS WHERE CRITICAL THINKING IS VALUED (AT LEAST IN PRINCIPLE) CRITICISM OF WARS AND LEADERS SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS HEALTHY AND NORMAL.

These flags were eventually GIVEN to them (probably out of spite) by conserative thinking groups of people.

"OUT OF SPITE" IS EXACTLY RIGHT. THIS FLAG ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT RESPECT FOR AMERICA -- IT IS ABOUT DISRESPECT FOR DISSENT AND CRITICAL THINKING.

If they refuse to display them then the public has a right to disregard them and everything the college stands for.

YOU HAVE REVEALED THE PRECISE REASON WHY I DETEST THIS FLAG PROPOSAL SO MUCH -- IT IS AN EXCUSE FOR A WITCH-HUNT.

I already think I know the mindset of liberal college students, but isn't it fun to confront them?

ISN'T IT WONDERFUL TO HAVE SUCH INCREDIBLE POWERS TO KNOW OTHERS' MINDSETS? MAYBE YOU COULD JUST SIT IN YOUR ROOM ALL DAY IMAGINING THE MINDSETS OF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD AND ASSURING OURSELF THAT YOU ARE CERTAINLY RIGHT ABOUT ALL OF "THEM."

AS FOR YOUR SENSE OF "FUN" CONFRONTING "THEM," I SUPPOSE THAT ANY THUG THINKS IT'S FUN TO THROW ROCKS AT THINGS HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.