Molecules of life come in waves

Nature Science Update ^ | 5 September 2003 | PHILIP BALL

[AndrewC]

Molecules of life come in waves

Compounds found in cells show quantum behaviour.
5 September 2003

PHILIP BALL

A wave-like particle can pass through both slots in a barrier.

© SPL

Physicists have watched biological molecules become waves in a dramatic demonstration of the effects of quantum mechanics¹.

It's not clear that biological molecules act like quantum waves in this way as they go about their business in living cells. However, physicist Roger Penrose of the University of Oxford, UK, and psychologist Stuart Hameroff of the University of Arizona in Tucson have proposed that consciousness might arise from wave-like quantum-mechanical effects involving protein filaments called microtubules in nerve cells.

[AndrewC]

The quantum effects "universe" enlarges.

[AndrewC]

Tetraphenylporphyrin "is" a wave.

[ellery]

bttt

[11B3]

"Scientists know that subatomic particles and individual atoms can behave like waves, in line with the famous quantum notion of wave-particle duality. But these properties are thought to give way to classical, billiard-ball-like behaviour as particles get larger. Quantum mechanics is needed to describe how large molecules vibrate, spin and move, but the molecules themselves are seen as occupying a well-defined position at any moment."

That statement shows man's ignorance. Just where is this threshold? That's like saying that c is the absolute speed limit.

[boris]

Um, c is the absolute speed limit.

--Boris

[Paul C. Jesup]

(sarcasm) Oh god, the new-agers were RIGHT!!!! O_O

[gore3000]

Tetraphenylporphyrin "is" a wave.

The article is quite interesting and a molecule with 60 carbon atoms is quite large sized. The article even in the link was not too clear as to how this observation was made, whether it was in normal circumstances or through some sort of special experiment. Have you been able to find any more information on how these conclusions were made?

[betty boop]

Very interesting, AndrewC! Thanks so much for the ping!

[aruanan]

...have proposed that consciousness might arise from wave-like quantum-mechanical effects involving protein filaments called microtubules in nerve cells.

And what about all the microtubules in all the other cells?

[AndrewC]

Have you been able to find any more information on how these conclusions were made?

Nothing for the recent experiment, but here is the link for the experiments involving the fullerenes. Matter-wave interferometer for large molecules

[AndrewC]

And what about all the microtubules in all the other cells?

I suppose that might imply consciousness for individual cells. But it is Penrose's hypothesis.

[aruanan]

I suppose that might imply consciousness for individual cells. But it is Penrose's hypothesis.

Based on functionality, we may as well propose consciousness for the state of Illinois because of its railroads and expressways, because that's how microtubules are used by the cell.

[AndrewC]

because that's how microtubules are used by the cell.

You are certain that is their sole function? In any case, it is not my theory.

[chilepepper]

Not so fast -- check out Stuart Hameroff's WWW site at the U of Arizona

[Scenic Sounds]

The quantum effects "universe" enlarges.

Does this news help Arnold or Tom? ;-)

[aruanan]

You are certain that is their sole function? In any case, it is not my theory.

They do a lot more than that, but providing highways for transport of other proteins via molecular motors such as dynamin is a major function. Penrose is just going a few more steps toward the nth degree of reductionism.

[AndrewC]

You also might find this interesting.

The Greatest Inventions of the Past 2,000 Years

Inhaled anesthetic gas molecules travel through the lungs and blood to the brain. Barely soluble in water/blood, anesthetics are highly soluble in a particular lipid-like environment akin to olive oil. It turns out the brain is loaded with such stuff, both in lipid membranes and tiny water-free ("hydrophobic") lipid-like pockets within certain brain proteins. To make a long story short, Nicholas Franks and William Lieb at Imperial College in London showed in a series of articles in the 1980's that anesthetics act primarily in these tiny hydrophobic pockets in several types of brain proteins. The anesthetic binding is extremely weak and the pockets are only 1 /50 of each protein's volume, so it's unclear why such seemingly minimal interactions should have significant effects. Franks and Lieb suggested the mere presence of one anesthetic molecule per pocket per protein prevents the protein from changing shape to do its job. However subsequent evidence showed that certain other gas molecules could occupy the same pockets and not cause anesthesia (and in fact cause excitation or convulsions). Anesthetic molecules just "being there" can't account for anesthesia. Some natural process critical to consciousness and perturbed by anesthetics must be happening in the pockets. What could that be?

Anesthetic gases dissolve in hydrophobic pockets by extremely weak quantum mechanical forces known as London dispersion forces. The weak binding accounts for easy reversibility - as the anesthetic gas flow is turned off, concentrations drop in the breathing circuit and blood, anesthetic molecules are gently sucked out of the pockets and the patient wakes up. Weak but influential quantum London forces also occur in the hydrophobic pockets in the absence of anesthetics and govern normal protein movement and shape. A logical conclusion is that anesthetics perturb normally occurring quantum effects in hydrophobic pockets of brain proteins.

[Phaedrus]

Thanks for the ping. The potential for quantum mechanical effects resides in all of physicality and "the issue" is of course what conditions allow the manifestation of consciousness. Size seems important but if resonance can somehow enter the picture, perhaps micro can easily become macro. What is certain is that consciousness is very commonplace. Thoughts not only flow, we often cannot turn them off. Because quantum mechanical effects and consciousness seem intimately related and because quantum mechanics rules the physical universe, I don't think we can rule out some sort of consciousness at all levels of life and physicality. Radical, I know, and "new age", if you like, but logically consistent, I think.

[Dataman]

And what about all the microtubules in all the other cells?

LOL