Reasonable People Cannot Always Agree To Disagree

Self ^ | 5/12/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

Don’t you just love it when someone with whom you're arguing says, “Well, we will just have to agree to disagree”, as a spin of the phrase ‘Reasonable people can agree to disagree’, or as the shortened version, ‘Reasonable people can disagree’? Can reasonable people disagree over cannibalism in order to permit cannibalism, without doing violence to civilization?

As a pro-life advocate who gets into lots of discussions, I hear this ‘agree to disagree’ more and more. It tells me my points are getting to the irrational heart of defense for the abortion slaughter. When an advocate for abortion of alive little ones trapped in a womb tries to discuss the topic from a reasoned position, irrational underpinnings are eventually exposed and the ‘reasoning’ stops, in favor of either ending the discussion or deflecting the ‘reasoning’ into areas better defined as emotional landmines.

A whole new field of argument is arising in defense of exploiting individual human lives. There is a common foundation for these arguments, a theme running through the lines of reasoning from the ‘pro-choice’ camp, but the origins of that commonality are not to be found in choice to abort; it has a more subtle beginning than that.

Prior to ‘choice to abort’, dehumanization of individual life had already laid a foundation for exploiting and choosing, a basis for viewing individual human life as a phenomenon that grows in value, as opposed to being endowed with unalienable right to be. And it came into our collective psyche as a supposed benefit to humankind, a means to have science aid in conceiving babies with ‘artificial insemination’. Subtracting from our humanity, artificial insemination moved to more detached dehumanization, with in vitro fertilization, the scientific ‘miracle’ of conceiving ‘something’ outside of the woman’s body, then that thing being implanted into a woman’s body, to have a ‘growing (increasing) right to live’. [Devout Catholics would say contraception was the beginning of dehumanization, but that’s an historical discussion and not the focus of this essay. The Roe abortion decision came in 1973, but ‘artificial insemination’ had been a reality for years prior to Roe. The first in vitro fertilization baby in the world was born in July of 1978 in England, after many years of research. Today, many thousands of children are born annually as a result of the IVF technique.]

I cannot recall what I thought when first I learned that something could be conceived in a petri dish that would later be implanted in a woman’s body, to even later be born as a human baby. I have a vague recollection from my youth that some people warned against artificial insemination, warned that such manipulation of human conception would lead to a dehumanization process, a ‘slippery slope’. I don’t quite remember what was warned of down that slippery slope, but I don’t have to remember, because we are living in the age of arrival!

Now, at this descended-to plateau, engulfed in a degree of darkness not anticipated so long ago, we are again facing a slippery slope. How will we come to recognize it as a hazardous slope? … This time the hazard has a name. Will America reject cannibalism, despite the campaign to focus only upon the utilitarian value of cannibalism, diverting attention from the truth that we face cannibalism? If prepared properly, we will accept cannibalism, just as we accepted in vitro fertilization. [Note: I purposely repeat the word rather than allude to the reality. Cannibalism should have a revulsion value. Modern examples of cannibalism, such as the incident with plane crash victims who survived by eating the flesh of already dead crash victims, tend to blur our historic revulsion to cannibalism. Let’s focus upon the Jeffrey Dhamer version of cannibalism, the kill and consume version, as opposed to the ‘harvest from accidentally dead’ version of cannibalism.]

What could make cannibalism more palatable, more consumable? … Allow me to illustrate by sharing a recent discussion I had with a close cousin, a father of four.

My cousin asked me to explain a recent news story in which a research scientist was profiled for an heroic desire to cure his daughter’s spinal injury by developing protein matched tissues for transplantation. Nowhere in the story was the viewer (it was a TV presentation) given the underlying facts of how this tissue would be generated, only that stem cells closely matched to the daughter’s tissues would be harvested to treat her injury. As I explained the process of ‘therapeutic cloning’ (methodology the scientist intends to rely upon for the tissues he desires), my cousin displayed no revulsion to the process. No matter how graphic my description of the cloning and killing process, my cousin could see only the utilitarian value of the harvesting, never the cannibalistic reality of killing an individual human being conceived for the sole purpose of harvesting spare parts to treat the older individual human being. I was shocked that a well-educated man would not be repulsed by this cannibalism. Upon later reflection, I understood why. It’s that damn slippery slope!

Once the descending plateau is reached, an acceptance quotient has been established. In the case of therapeutic cloning, the acceptance quotient involves a speciously arranged ‘degree of humanness’ … a conceptus, or zygote, or embryo, or second (or even third) trimester fetus is not deemed a full human being. Nay Sayers will not be allowed to interfere with utilitarian value of the ‘conceive, support, kill, and harvest methodology’. Individual human life, prior to being born, is deemed ‘not yet a complete human being’ on our familiar darkened pro-choice plateau, thus to conceive individual human life, support that life, kill that life, and harvest from these ‘not yet complete human things’ is not defined as cannibalism. If these conceived individuals were admitted to be full human beings, would we still embrace the cannibalistic exploitation due to the utilitarian value of their individual designer body parts? The scientist of my cousin’s query most certainly would and my cousin would, because darkness this far down the slippery slope, this far down inside the funnel of dehumanization, is so great.

The pre-born are less human than the born? … Yes, when you strip away the rhetorical gamesmanship, the obfuscatory verbiage, that is what the arguments descend to, that is the dimness of our modern world. That is the plateau to which we’ve descended, from the seemingly innocent stage of artificial insemination then in vitro fertilization as merely medical assistance to natural conception. Touted as a boon to infertile couples, the in vitro fertilization process manipulated sex cells in a lab environment, conceived multiple embryos to be implanted in a woman’s uterus, stored excess embryos … and the process redefined the earliest age of an individual’s lifetime as but one stage ‘in a process that eventually becomes a human being’. So, where was the error in reasoning first made?

Sex cells are sub-units of organs; organs are sub-units of organisms; embryos are whole organisms. That was so quick, allow me to reiterate: cells are sub-units of organs, organs are sub-units of organisms; an individual human being is an organism; a kidney, for instance, is an organ of an organism.

In vitro fertilization manipulates, first, sex cells … sub-units of sex organs, organs of the parents. But if successful, in vitro fertilization conceives a whole, new organism … not just an organ, the whole organism! As the embryo grows, with the cell total climbing from one, to two, to three, to five, etc., the early cells are totipotent or pluripotent--less differentiated into the individual organs of the organism--thus the early cells are the organs of the individual begun with ‘petri dish’ conception, the assertions of Senator Orrin Hatch notwithstanding. [Senator Hatch claimed that conception doesn’t happen in a petri dish, possibly because Senator Hatch is pushing a bill that would allow therapeutic cloning, but not ‘reproductive cloning’. Senator Hatch has already decided that what is conceived in a petri dish and not allowed to live long enough to be born is not an individual human being, thus these ‘less than human’ beings will be fair game for killing and harvesting … fair game for his ‘to be protected’ form of cannibalism! Orrin Hatch’s reasoning has faltered at the difference between organs and whole organisms, thus he deems an embryo as no more than a non-differentiated organ that will ‘someday’ become an organism. And he’s patently and completely wrong!]

Whether in a dish or a human host, the embryo is an individual human being alive at the earliest age along the continuum we call a human lifetime. That fact is what was passed over so quickly when the debate over in vitro fertilization was squelched. That is the tiny error so grossly exploited to toss America down the slippery slope.

Now, after gradual descent (artificial insemination, in vitro fertilization, amniocentesis, etc.) and later steep descent (abortion on demand, fetal tissue harvesting, partial birth abortion), we have arrived at a descended-to plateau beyond which is cannibalism, conceiving then killing individual human beings because their designer body parts at an embryonic age are of utilitarian value, of more utilitarian value than their unalienable right to life. Can ‘reasonable people’ agree to disagree on cannibalism, to allow the cannibalism to continue? May God have mercy upon America if such is reasonable at this stage in our nation’s life.

[MHGinTN]

Soon, too soon, the debates regarding cloning will arise in the House and Senate. The American people are sadly unprepared to understand the nuances of the arguments, because we are not well versed in the methodologies, in the 'what the heck does that mean' and 'how the heck do they do that' aspects of the issues. Here's another essay to help with preparation. Let the obfuscations begin!

[MHGinTN]

(((PING))))))

[MHGinTN]

Ping

[Cathryn Crawford]

You'll probably be interested in this; the author is published periodically on TWD, and he's very good.

[RLK]

The American people are sadly unprepared to understand the nuances of the arguments...

-------------------------

I'm one of those people. We are heading in directions which will open up a complicated can of worms. I would rather those directions not be pursued.

[Torie]

The cannabilism analogy degrades this piece right from the get go. It won't persuade anyone that is not already persuaded. In any event, the whole debate turns on perceptions of just when a fetus, or something in a petri dish, should obtain legal protections. And unfortunately, that really isn't very susceptible to argument. It is more about a priori assumptions.

[MHGinTN]

Differing legislation efforts are about to come to the floor of House and Senate. The sponsors of these bills might saurprise us. For instance, Mary Landrieu is sponsoring a complete ban on human cloning, where Orrin Hatch is sponsoring a ban on reproductive cloning, but his bill would allow and fund 'therapeutic cloning'. Landrieu's bill is the correct pro-life position; Hatch's bill is the camel's hump under the tent flap, the whole stinking camel into the tent, in a big way! It will be important for folks to understand the nuances, else we will be steamrolled to embrace some forms of cloning as 'enlightened medical advance'.

[Cicero]

Of course you're right.

Philosophically, rationality must rest on a basis of realism (which is to say that there is something real out there beyond our subjective opinions). Realism has pretty much vanished from our culture except among people with traditional religious views.

Aladair McIntyre offers a pretty good explanation of the mess we find ourselves in in his book "Whose Justice? Which Rationality?"

The reductio ad absurdum of modern relativism is enshrined in Planned Parenthood v. Casey: "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life." In other words, the universe is whatever you want it to be. I don't think so. This is nothing but drivvel.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/court_cases/casey/oconnor_1.asp

[MHGinTN]

Is therapeutic cloning a form of cannibalism?

[Torie]

If you like to use that incendiary word, be my guest.

[Hank Kerchief]

Whether in a dish or a human host, the embryo is an individual human being alive at the earliest age along the continuum we call a human lifetime.

A human lifetime is measured from birth to death. An embryo that is never born has no human lifetime.

It is amazing that those who makes such claims are depending on the testimony of science, the very same science that says, people begin when they are born.

Those who oppose abortion in this country do not have to have one. This is not true in countries where the power to determine whether or not abortion is allowed (or required) is in the hands of the government. Anyone who opposes abortion should do everything in their power to ensure the choice in this matter is never determined by government.

Hank

[MHGinTN]

I have a Korean daughter-in-law. You are wrong that a lifetime begins at birth because to Koreans it begins at conception.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[MHGinTN]

Can you answer the question? ... Is therapeutic cloning a form of cannibalism?

[cpforlife.org]

Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

[WarSlut]

If you like to use that incendiary word, be my guest.

Lord knows, we wouldn't want to use any incendiary words to describe the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent children.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Bump for later.

[RLK]

Those who oppose abortion in this country do not have to have one.

-------------------

Careful lest you create a society where nobody's life is worth a disposable damn.

[Torie]

The short answer is no. A cannibal is one who eats flesh of other humans. The definition is available here. But as I say, you just keep on using it.

[MHGinTN]

If a physician gave to you an embryo cloned to have the exact same protein patterns in/on its cells as you and told you that eating the embryo would cure your parkinsons, would that be cannibalsim? If the physician took major parts from the embryo and inserted them into your brain (killing the embryo by taking amjor parts from it) to cure your parkinsons, would that be cannibalism? Would you sy it was not just because the utilization by-passed your stomach? Therpeutic cloning is cannibalistic, and it kills an individual human life in order to aid another, older life, to sustain that older life ... it is cannibalism.