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Anti-war argument [Admin Mod says: Target Practice!!!!]
Anti-war website ^

Posted on 02/19/2003 4:20:58 AM PST by Michael B

Edited on 02/19/2003 6:30:17 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

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This essay describes my views on the war. Given that this forum seems mostly to hold the opposite views, I would be very interested to hear some views/comments/ proofs why i'm wrong on it :).

Before dismissing it, please note that the website (http://www.bevin.de) also contains a heap of references backing up what the essay argues.

1 posted on 02/19/2003 4:20:58 AM PST by Michael B
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To: Michael B
-Time to kick the tires & light the fires, folks- terrorism gathers across the World...--

-All Terror, All the Time-- FR's links to NBC Warfare, Terror, and More...--

-Jihad! Across the World....--

-IRAQ- some links to terror--

-The Web of Terror--

-The Fire Down South...( Latin America--)--

Castro, the Carribean, and Terrorism

The Poor-Boy Nuke-- Bioterrorism***

2 posted on 02/19/2003 4:23:59 AM PST by backhoe ("Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the Sunset...")
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To: Michael B; dighton; aculeus; general_re; Poohbah; hellinahandcart; L,TOWM

VARMINT CONG ALERT!!!


REPEL BOARDERS!!!

3 posted on 02/19/2003 4:25:24 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: Michael B
So, what would you propose doing? Nothing? Giving "The Butcher of Baghdad" billions in aid? Helping Iraq and N. Korea form a weapons alliance?

It's nice to oppose something "on principle" but did you take the real world situation into account? Since we can't negotiate with terrorists, the only way to stop them is a painstaking system of eradication and making it clear to all countries that if they support (or turn a blind eye) to terrorist type activities, they will have a price to pay...

4 posted on 02/19/2003 4:27:30 AM PST by trebb
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To: Michael B
Signed up today!!!!!!! First post!!!!!!!! Zot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5 posted on 02/19/2003 4:28:41 AM PST by Always Right
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To: BlueLancer
Lancer, Kool picture- I always wanted a Lewis gun... I've shot just about every full-auto weapon you can name, but never had the opportunity to shoot a Lewis... ah well, gives me a small thing to aspire to.
6 posted on 02/19/2003 4:30:56 AM PST by backhoe ("Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the Sunset...")
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To: Michael B
"We, the German Führer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe.

We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again. We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe."

"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time... Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."

Neville Chamberlain

7 posted on 02/19/2003 4:31:34 AM PST by Colosis
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To: Michael B
First, read this (all of it):

WAR!

And after you finish reading that, then try to refute it on that thread.

8 posted on 02/19/2003 4:31:53 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Michael B
Such a war can only lead to an increase in terrorism.

Maybe short term. But in the long run, eliminating the harbors for vermin reduces their numbers. Driving them from their havens makes it easier to kill them.

There are no proven links between Saddam and the Al-Qaeda.

There don't have to be. We declared war on terrorism, not al-Qaida. There are more terrorist organizations than bin Laden's.

Before the UN sanctions Saddam had created a country with the one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East.

So? We never said we would pursue terrorists only into those countries who live in mud huts. It's just as easy to bomb a brick building as a yurt. And a developed nation has much more to lose. It's what the military calls a "target-rich environment."

The threat that Iraq poses to us is tiny.

The threat Hitler posed to the US was tiny too. However, his threat to humanity was more than we could bear.

The US has a deplorable record of foreign intervention over the past 50 years.

"Deplorable" by whose standards? We have installed regimes around the world that were friendly to American interests, and thereby prevented all-out war while still protecting ourselves. That isn't a particularly dismal record. And even if we've made mistakes, our record isn't as lamentable as that of the socialists and petty tyrants we've deposed.

9 posted on 02/19/2003 4:32:06 AM PST by IronJack
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To: Michael B
"...democratic governments that have been overthrown by CIA covert action and replaced with dictators (i.e. Guatemala, Chile..."


There's never a Pinochet around when you need one.

10 posted on 02/19/2003 4:34:36 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: Michael B
If these are your views on the upcoming conflict, then you're not only a troll, but an idiot at best. My tagline speaks directly to you and those like you.
11 posted on 02/19/2003 4:34:46 AM PST by 11B3 (Liberalism is mental retardation. They should all be institutionalized. Permanently.)
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To: Michael B
Canning ZOT for the winter


12 posted on 02/19/2003 4:39:25 AM PST by Alouette
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To: Michael B
If Saddam is a bad guy because we built him up in the first place, and that is one of your anti-war arguments, then it's surely our responsibility to take him out. That particular argument doesn't wash. None of the rest do either. Appeasement in the face of such evil as terrorism is not only stupid, it's suicide.
13 posted on 02/19/2003 4:43:17 AM PST by vharlow
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To: Michael B
Does your site give the number of palaces and residences Saddam has and what the approximate cost of construction is? Does your site break down that amount into how many Iraqi children that'd feed?
14 posted on 02/19/2003 4:43:26 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Michael B
1. Such a war can only lead to an increase in terrorism.
Nonsense. Terrorism has existed, and will continue to exist and flourish, in the absense of terrorism. Unless the bombing of that nightclub was a result of Australian agression.
Anyone still doubting that oil is a motive behind the war need only consider the Bush Administration's deep ties with the oil industry,
More gibberish. If the Bush family wanted to steal middle east oil, we would have done so when we liberated Kuwait. We didn't, and we won't this time either.
2. There are no proven links between Saddam and the Al-Qaeda.
There are, however, proven links between Saddam and terrorism in general. There is a war against terror, not a war against just Al-Qaeda.
3. Before the UN sanctions Saddam had created a country with the one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East.
Without getting into the accuracy of the assertion, I will point out that your argument basically is that if a tyrant provides a high standard of living for his people, it matters not what atrocities he commits or what international laws he flaunts. Nice moral high ground there.
4. The threat that Iraq poses to us is tiny. Iraq probably still has some 'weapons of mass destruction' of course,
I assume that when we get done with Iraq and then focus on North Korea, you will then be on board and not complaining about expanding US imperialism? One target at a time. When we dispatch Saddam, we will see if North Korea has gotten the message. And by the way, the time to take care of an emerging threat is when it is emerging, not after. Bill Clinton would have done well to realize this in his mishandling of North Korea.
5. The US has a deplorable record of foreign intervention over the past 50 years.
The Eastern European nations freed from the grip of the Soviet Bloc would disagree with you, as would the people of Grenada.

And one more thing.

ZOT!!!!

15 posted on 02/19/2003 4:45:06 AM PST by Admin Moderator (Who's your daddy?)
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To: Admin Moderator
Terrorism has existed, and will continue to exist and flourish, in the absense of terrorism
In the absense of war.
16 posted on 02/19/2003 4:49:06 AM PST by Admin Moderator (I need a proofreader)
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To: Admin Moderator
And one more thing...

YOU CAN'T FOOL FATHER ZOT!!!!
17 posted on 02/19/2003 4:50:07 AM PST by Neets (<---is a bit of a happier camper than yesterday.)
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To: Alouette
I love that pic.
18 posted on 02/19/2003 4:50:41 AM PST by ewing
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To: Michael B
NO one else will say it, so I will. You are nothing but an anti-Bush flack, and the fact that you had no arguments when Clinton was bombing Iraq is evidence of your single-minded bitterness and hypocrisy. You folks still need to get over it.
19 posted on 02/19/2003 4:51:24 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Michael B
I had rather discuss five reasons you should be stripped of your citizenship and deported.
20 posted on 02/19/2003 4:52:12 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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