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1 posted on 12/10/2002 11:21:41 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
Renquist and O'Conner already voted to uphold the law in Bowers V Harwick (Which was one of the best Supreme Court Decisions of all time.)

Scalia and Thomas will probably vote with them.

Stephens already voted pro-sodomite, I suspect Ginsburg, Souter and Breyer will go along with him.

That leaves Kennedy as the deciding vote.

Our Founders never intended for Sodomy to be a right. Every single colony had laws against sodomy before our nation's founding, and after it's founding every single state had a law against sodomy, all the way into the 1900's.

To this day several states still have sodomy laws on the books.

The immoral hippies of the 1960's have no right to impose their agenda on the rest of America.

If the Court Overturns Bowers, I pray that God unleashes his wrath.

Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson.

For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:30-31 NKJV

2 posted on 12/10/2002 11:30:40 AM PST by FF578
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To: Liz
Again I say, you can pass or void any and all laws you want but homosexuality WILL NEVER BE MORALLY ACCEPATABLE. GOD WILL NOT RECOGNIZE MAN'S EVIL WAYS AS "JUST ANOTHER WAY OF LIFE".
3 posted on 12/10/2002 11:31:59 AM PST by maeng
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To: Liz
where it is a crime for gays to please each other in ways that are perfectly legal for straights.

Comparing right behavior with wrong behavior is disordered and pathological.

5 posted on 12/10/2002 11:34:06 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Liz
Notice how the ultra-liberals never actually bother to address the points of the Decision.

No. 85-140
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
478 U.S. 186
March 31, 1986
June 30, 1986

CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE ELEVENTH CIRCUIT

Syllabus

After being charged with violating the Georgia statute criminalizing sodomy by committing that act with another adult male in the bedroom of his home, respondent Hardwick (respondent) brought suit in Federal District Court, challenging the constitutionality of the statute insofar as it criminalized consensual sodomy. The court granted the defendants' motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim. The Court of Appeals reversed and remanded, holding that the Georgia statute violated respondent's fundamental rights.

Held: The Georgia statute is constitutional. Pp. 190-196 .

(a) The Constitution does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy. None of the fundamental rights announced in this Court's prior cases involving family relationships, marriage, or procreation bear any resemblance to the right asserted in this case. And any claim that those cases stand for the proposition that any kind of private sexual conduct between consenting adults is constitutionally insulated from state proscription is unsupportable. Pp. 190-191 .

(b) Against a background in which many States have criminalized sodomy and still do, to claim that a right to engage in such conduct is "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" or "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" is, at best, facetious. Pp. 191-194 .

(c) There should be great resistance to expand the reach of the Due Process Clauses to cover new fundamental rights. Otherwise, the Judiciary necessarily would take upon itself further authority to govern the country without constitutional authority. The claimed right in this case falls far short of overcoming this resistance. Pp. 194-195 .

(d) The fact that homosexual conduct occurs in the privacy of the home does not affect the result. Stanley v. Georgia, 394 U.S. 557 , distinguished. Pp. 195-196 .

(e) Sodomy laws should not be invalidated on the asserted basis that majority belief that sodomy is immoral is an inadequate rationale to support the laws. P. 196 .

760 F.2d 1202, reversed. [p*187]

Opinions WHITE, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BURGER, C.J., and POWELL, REHNQUIST, and O'CONNOR, JJ., joined. BURGER, C.J., post, p. 196 , and POWELL, J., post, p. 197 , filed concurring opinions. BLACKMUN, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BRENNAN, MARSHALL, and STEVENS, JJ., joined, post, p. 199 . STEVENS, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BRENNAN and MARSHALL, JJ., joined, post, p. 214 .

WHITE, J., Opinion of the Court

JUSTICE WHITE delivered the opinion of the Court.

In August, 1982, respondent Hardwick (hereafter respondent) was charged with violating the Georgia statute criminalizing [p*188] sodomy [n1] by committing that act with another adult male in the bedroom of respondent's home. After a preliminary hearing, the District Attorney decided not to present the matter to the grand jury unless further evidence developed.

Respondent then brought suit in the Federal District Court, challenging the constitutionality of the statute insofar as it criminalized consensual sodomy. [n2] He asserted that he was a practicing homosexual, that the Georgia sodomy statute, as administered by the defendants, placed him in imminent danger of arrest, and that the statute for several reasons violates the Federal Constitution. The District Court granted the defendants' motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim, relying on Doe v. Commonwealth's Attorney for the City of Richmond, 403 F.Supp. 1199 (ED Va.1975), which this Court summarily affirmed, 425 U.S. 901 (1976). [p*189]

A divided panel of the Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit reversed. 760 F.2d 1202 (1985). The court first held that, because Doe was distinguishable and, in any event, had been undermined by later decisions, our summary affirmance in that case did not require affirmance of the District Court. Relying on our decisions in Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965); Eisenstadt v. Baird, 405 U.S. 438 (1972); Stanley v. Georgia, 394 U.S. 557 (1969); and Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), the court went on to hold that the Georgia statute violated respondent's fundamental rights because his homosexual activity is a private and intimate association that is beyond the reach of state regulation by reason of the Ninth Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The case was remanded for trial, at which, to prevail, the State would have to prove that the statute is supported by a compelling interest and is the most narrowly drawn means of achieving that end.

Because other Courts of Appeals have arrived at judgments contrary to that of the Eleventh Circuit in this case, [n3] we granted the Attorney General's petition for certiorari questioning the holding that the sodomy statute violates the fundamental rights of homosexuals. We agree with petitioner that the Court of Appeals erred, and hence reverse its judgment. [n4] [p*190]

This case does not require a judgment on whether laws against sodomy between consenting adults in general, or between homosexuals in particular, are wise or desirable. It raises no question about the right or propriety of state legislative decisions to repeal their laws that criminalize homosexual sodomy, or of state court decisions invalidating those laws on state constitutional grounds. The issue presented is whether the Federal Constitution confers a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy, and hence invalidates the laws of the many States that still make such conduct illegal, and have done so for a very long time. The case also calls for some judgment about the limits of the Court's role in carrying out its constitutional mandate.

We first register our disagreement with the Court of Appeals and with respondent that the Court's prior cases have construed the Constitution to confer a right of privacy that extends to homosexual sodomy and, for all intents and purposes, have decided this case. The reach of this line of cases was sketched in Carey v. Population Services International, 431 U.S. 678 , 685 (1977). Pierce v. Society of Sisters, 268 U.S. 510 (1925), and Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390 (1923), were described as dealing with childrearing and education; Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158 (1944), with family relationships; Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535 (1942), with procreation; Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967), with marriage; Griswold v. Connecticut, supra, and Eisenstadt v. Baird, supra, with contraception; and Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), with abortion. The latter three cases were interpreted as construing the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to confer a fundamental individual right to decide whether or not to beget or bear a child. Carey v. Population Services International, supra, at 688-689 .

Accepting the decisions in these cases and the above description of them, we think it evident that none of the rights announced in those cases bears any resemblance to the [p*191] claimed constitutional right of homosexuals to engage in acts of sodomy that is asserted in this case. No connection between family, marriage, or procreation, on the one hand, and homosexual activity, on the other, has been demonstrated, either by the Court of Appeals or by respondent. Moreover, any claim that these cases nevertheless stand for the proposition that any kind of private sexual conduct between consenting adults is constitutionally insulated from state proscription is unsupportable. Indeed, the Court's opinion in Carey twice asserted that the privacy right, which the Griswold line of cases found to be one of the protections provided by the Due Process Clause, did not reach so far. 431 U.S. at 688, n. 5 , 694, n. 17 .

Precedent aside, however, respondent would have us announce, as the Court of Appeals did, a fundamental right to engage in homosexual sodomy. This we are quite unwilling to do. It is true that, despite the language of the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which appears to focus only on the processes by which life, liberty, or property is taken, the cases are legion in which those Clauses have been interpreted to have substantive content, subsuming rights that to a great extent are immune from federal or state regulation or proscription. Among such cases are those recognizing rights that have little or no textual support in the constitutional language. Meyer, Prince, and Pierce fall in this category, as do the privacy cases from Griswold to Carey.

Striving to assure itself and the public that announcing rights not readily identifiable in the Constitution's text involves much more than the imposition of the Justices' own choice of values on the States and the Federal Government, the Court has sought to identify the nature of the rights qualifying for heightened judicial protection. In Palko v. Connecticut, 302 U.S. 319 , 325 , 326 (1937), it was said that this category includes those fundamental liberties that are "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty," such that "neither [p*192] liberty nor justice would exist if [they] were sacrificed." A different description of fundamental liberties appeared in Moore v. East Cleveland, 431 U.S. 494, 503 (1977) (opinion of POWELL, J.), where they are characterized as those liberties that are "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition." Id. at 503 (POWELL, J.). See also Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. at 506 .

It is obvious to us that neither of these formulations would extend a fundamental right to homosexuals to engage in acts of consensual sodomy. Proscriptions against that conduct have ancient roots. See generally Survey on the Constitutional Right to Privacy in the Context of Homosexual Activity, 40 U.Miami L.Rev. 521, 525 (1986). Sodomy was a criminal offense at common law, and was forbidden by the laws of the original 13 States when they ratified the Bill of Rights. [n5] In 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment was [p*193] ratified, all but 5 of the 37 States in the Union had criminal sodomy laws. [n6] In fact, until 1961, [n7] all 50 States outlawed sodomy, and today, 24 States and the District of Columbia [p*194] continue to provide criminal penalties for sodomy performed in private and between consenting adults. See Survey, U.Miami L.Rev. supra, at 524, n. 9. Against this background, to claim that a right to engage in such conduct is "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" or "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" is, at best, facetious.

Nor are we inclined to take a more expansive view of our authority to discover new fundamental rights imbedded in the Due Process Clause. The Court is most vulnerable and comes nearest to illegitimacy when it deals with judge-made constitutional law having little or no cognizable roots in the language or design of the Constitution. That this is so was painfully demonstrated by the face-off between the Executive and the Court in the 1930's, which resulted in the repudiation [p*195] of much of the substantive gloss that the Court had placed on the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. There should be, therefore, great resistance to expand the substantive reach of those Clauses, particularly if it requires redefining the category of rights deemed to be fundamental. Otherwise, the Judiciary necessarily takes to itself further authority to govern the country without express constitutional authority. The claimed right pressed on us today falls far short of overcoming this resistance.

Respondent, however, asserts that the result should be different where the homosexual conduct occurs in the privacy of the home. He relies on Stanley v. Georgia, 394 U.S. 557 (1969), where the Court held that the First Amendment prevents conviction for possessing and reading obscene material in the privacy of one's home:

If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his house, what books he may read or what films he may watch.

Id. at 565 .

Stanley did protect conduct that would not have been protected outside the home, and it partially prevented the enforcement of state obscenity laws; but the decision was firmly grounded in the First Amendment. The right pressed upon us here has no similar support in the text of the Constitution, and it does not qualify for recognition under the prevailing principles for construing the Fourteenth Amendment. Its limits are also difficult to discern. Plainly enough, otherwise illegal conduct is not always immunized whenever it occurs in the home. Victimless crimes, such as the possession and use of illegal drugs, do not escape the law where they are committed at home. Stanley itself recognized that its holding offered no protection for the possession in the home of drugs, firearms, or stolen goods. Id. at 568, n. 11 . And if respondent's submission is limited to the voluntary sexual conduct between consenting adults, it would be difficult, except by fiat, to limit the claimed right to homosexual conduct [p*196] while leaving exposed to prosecution adultery, incest, and other sexual crimes even though they are committed in the home. We are unwilling to start down that road.

Even if the conduct at issue here is not a fundamental right, respondent asserts that there must be a rational basis for the law, and that there is none in this case other than the presumed belief of a majority of the electorate in Georgia that homosexual sodomy is immoral and unacceptable. This is said to be an inadequate rationale to support the law. The law, however, is constantly based on notions of morality, and if all laws representing essentially moral choices are to be invalidated under the Due Process Clause, the courts will be very busy indeed. Even respondent makes no such claim, but insists that majority sentiments about the morality of homosexuality should be declared inadequate. We do not agree, and are unpersuaded that the sodomy laws of some 25 States should be invalidated on this basis. [n8]

Accordingly, the judgment of the Court of Appeals is

Reversed.

1. Georgia Code Ann. § 16-6-2 (1984) provides, in pertinent part, as follows:

(a) A person commits the offense of sodomy when he performs or submits to any sexual act involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another. . . .

(b) A person convicted of the offense of sodomy shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. . . .

2. John and Mary Doe were also plaintiffs in the action. They alleged that they wished to engage in sexual activity proscribed by § 16-6-2 in the privacy of their home, App. 3, and that they had been "chilled and deterred" from engaging in such activity by both the existence of the statute and Hardwick's arrest. Id. at 5. The District Court held, however, that, because they had neither sustained, nor were in immediate danger of sustaining, any direct injury from the enforcement of the statute, they did not have proper standing to maintain the action. Id. at 18. The Court of Appeals affirmed the District Court's judgment dismissing the Does' claim for lack of standing, 760 F.2d 1202, 1206-1207 (CA11 1985), and the Does do not challenge that holding in this Court.

The only claim properly before the Court, therefore, is Hardwick's challenge to the Georgia statute as applied to consensual homosexual sodomy. We express no opinion on the constitutionality of the Georgia statute as applied to other acts of sodomy.

3. See Baker v. Wade, 769 F.2d 289, rehearing denied, 774 F.2d 1285 (CA5 1985) (en banc); Dronenburg v. Zech, 239 U.S.App.D.C. 229, 741 F.2d 1388, rehearing denied, 241 U.S.App.D.C. 262, 746 F.2d 1579 (1984).

4. Petitioner also submits that the Court of Appeals erred in holding that the District Court was not obligated to follow our summary affirmance in Doe. We need not resolve this dispute, for we prefer to give plenary consideration to the merits of this case rather than rely on our earlier action in Doe. See Usery v. Turner Elkhorn Mining Co., 428 U.S. 1, 14 (1976); Massachusetts Board of Retirement v. Murgia, 427 U.S. 307, 309, n. 1 (1976); Edelman v. Jordan, 415 U.S. 651, 671 (1974). Cf. Hicks v. Miranda, 422 U.S. 332, 344 (1975).

5 Criminal sodomy laws in effect in 1791:

Connecticut: 1 Public Statute Laws of the State of Connecticut, 1808, Title LXVI, ch. 1, 2 (rev. 1672). Delaware: 1 Laws of the State of Delaware, 1797, ch. 22, 5 (passed 1719). Georgia had no criminal sodomy statute until 1816, but sodomy was a crime at common law, and the General Assembly adopted the common law of England as the law of Georgia in 1784. The First Laws of the State of Georgia, pt. 1, p. 290 (1981). Maryland had no criminal sodomy statute in 1791. Maryland's Declaration of Rights, passed in 1776, however, stated that "the inhabitants of Maryland are entitled to the common law of England," and sodomy was a crime at common law. 4 W. Swindler, Sources and Documents of United States Constitutions 372 (1975). Massachusetts: Acts and Laws passed by the General Court of Massachusetts, ch. 14, Act of Mar. 3, 1785. New Hampshire passed its first sodomy statute in 1718. Acts and Laws of New Hampshire 1680-1726, p. 141 (1978). Sodomy was a crime at common law in New Jersey at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights. The State enacted its first criminal sodomy law five years later. Acts of the Twentieth General Assembly, Mar. 18, 1796, ch. DC, 7. New York: Laws of New York, ch. 21 (passed 1787). [478 U.S. 186, 193] At the time of ratification of the Bill of Rights, North Carolina had adopted the English statute of Henry VIII outlawing sodomy. See Collection of the Statutes of the Parliament of England in Force in the State of North-Carolina, ch. 17, p. 314 (Martin ed. 1792). Pennsylvania: Laws of the Fourteenth General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, ch. CLIV, 2 (passed 1790). Rhode Island passed its first sodomy law in 1662. The Earliest Acts and Laws of the Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations 1647-1719, p. 142 (1977). South Carolina: Public Laws of the State of South Carolina, p. 49 (1790). At the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights, Virginia had no specific statute outlawing sodomy, but had adopted the English common law. 9 Hening's Laws of Virginia, ch. 5, 6, p. 127 (1821) (passed 1776).

6 Criminal sodomy statutes in effect in 1868:

Alabama: Ala. Rev. Code 3604 (1867). Arizona (Terr.): Howell Code, ch. 10, 48 (1865). Arkansas: Ark. Stat., ch. 51, Art. IV, 5 (1858). California: 1 Cal. Gen. Laws,  1450, 48 (1865). Colorado (Terr.): Colo. Rev. Stat., ch. 22, 45, 46 (1868). Connecticut: Conn. Gen. Stat., Tit. 122, ch. 7, 124 (1866). Delaware: Del. Rev. Stat., ch. 131, 7 (1893). Florida: Fla. Rev. Stat., div. 5, 2614 (passed 1868) (1892). Georgia: Ga. Code 4286, 4287, 4290 (1867). Kingdom of Hawaii: Haw. Penal Code, ch. 13, 11 (1869). Illinois: Ill. Rev. Stat., div. 5, 49, 50 (1845). Kansas (Terr.): Kan. Stat., ch. 53, 7 (1855). Kentucky: 1 Ky. Rev. Stat., ch. 28, Art. IV, 11 (1860). Louisiana: La. Rev. Stat., Crimes and Offences, 5 (1856). Maine: Me. Rev. Stat., Tit. XII, ch. 160, 4 (1840). Maryland: 1 Md. Code, Art. 30, 201 (1860). Massachusetts: Mass. Gen. Stat., ch. 165, 18 (1860). Michigan: Mich. Rev. Stat., Tit. 30, ch. 158, 16 (1846). Minnesota: Minn. Stat., ch. 96, 13 (1859). Mississippi: Miss. Rev. Code, ch. 64, LII, Art. 238 (1857). Missouri: 1 Mo. Rev. Stat., ch. 50, Art. VIII, 7 (1856). Montana (Terr.): Mont. Acts, Resolutions, Memorials, Criminal Practice Acts, ch. IV, 44 (1866). Nebraska (Terr.): Neb. Rev. Stat., Crim. Code, ch. 4, 47 (1866). [478 U.S. 186, 194] Nevada (Terr.): Nev. Comp. Laws, 1861-1900, Crimes and Punishments, 45. New Hampshire: N. H. Laws, Act. of June 19, 1812, 5 (1815). New Jersey: N. J. Rev. Stat., Tit. 8, ch. 1, 9 (1847). New York: 3 N. Y. Rev. Stat., pt. 4, ch. 1, Tit. 5, 20 (5th ed. 1859). North Carolina: N.C. Rev. Code, ch. 34, 6 (1855). Oregon: Laws of Ore., Crimes - Against Morality, etc., ch. 7, 655 (1874). Pennsylvania: Act of Mar. 31, 1860, 32, Pub. L. 392, in 1 Digest of Statute Law of Pa. 1700-1903, p. 1011 (Purdon 1905). Rhode Island: R. I. Gen. Stat., ch. 232, 12 (1872). South Carolina: Act of 1712, in 2 Stat. at Large of S. C. 1682-1716, p. 493 (1837). Tennessee: Tenn. Code, ch. 8, Art. 1, 4843 (1858). Texas: Tex. Rev. Stat., Tit. 10, ch. 5, Art. 342 (1887) (passed 1860). Vermont: Acts and Laws of the State of Vt. (1779). Virginia: Va. Code, ch. 149, 12 (1868). West Virginia: W. Va. Code, ch. 149, 12 (1868). Wisconsin (Terr.): Wis. Stat. 14, p. 367 (1839).

8 posted on 12/10/2002 11:39:18 AM PST by FF578
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To: Liz
Why cant we worry about important things in this country?
14 posted on 12/10/2002 11:42:45 AM PST by smith288
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To: Liz
What the officers found Lawrence and Garner doing is really none of our business, any more than it was any of Texas's; suffice it to say that it was consensual, nonviolent, and noise-free.

Well, I agree that it's none of MY business. However, the author may want to revisit his criteria for offense; one might argue that a couple of guys running a meth lab are engaging in activity that is consensual, nonviolent, and noise-free.

23 posted on 12/10/2002 11:49:50 AM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: Liz
This law is obviously popular in Texas. John Cornyn is on record as supporting it during his campaign against Ron Kirk (who dodged the issue). President Bush supported the law as Governor, and the highest courts of Texas have refused to overturn it (not to mention the state's legislature).

I have no problem with the government outlawing sexual perversion between homosexuals. These "freedoms" have no place in our society. We all know our founding fathers never dreamed of this.

The late US Supreme Court Justice Byron White said that for homosexuals to think that such conduct should be legal was "at best facetious." Well said. Homosexuals have no rights in the eyes of God to engage in deviant behaviour and they shouldn't in the eyes of man either. I feel the same way about bestiality and child abuse.
24 posted on 12/10/2002 11:50:04 AM PST by No dems 2002
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To: Liz
If it's wrong to control sodomy, why wouldn't it also be wrong to control prostitution? Consenting adults are consenting adults, whether for fun or profit.

48 posted on 12/10/2002 12:07:30 PM PST by xzins
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To: Liz
How exactly are sodomy laws enforced?
51 posted on 12/10/2002 12:08:34 PM PST by Portnoy
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To: Liz
Article "neglected" to mention that the "neighbor" was an "ex-lover" (read homosexual, not a bigoted-homophobe) of one of the two men. The neighbor was convicted of fraudulently reporting this incident to the police and sentenced to 30-days in jail.

I've postulated that the 3 men conspired together to get the couple arrested so that they would have a court case to use to overturn the law. From the outset, the "defendants" proclaimed how they were going to use this charge to overturn the law (making them "plantiffs" in a sense).

The 2 men committing an act of homosexual sodomy left their door (deliberately?) unlocked. When police arrived to respond to the emergency call, they did not need to disturb the men to gain entry. They discovered the 2 men in their bedroom still having sex (nothing I've read indicated or denied that the officers announced their presence upon entering the residence).

78 posted on 12/10/2002 12:28:46 PM PST by weegee
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To: Liz
Sure, the Supremes will take cases like this but won't touch Second Amendment cases with a ten foot pole.

I just can't find pro or anti sodomy clauses anywhere in the Constitution. They must be in there somewhere because the Supremes are going to rule on it. It must be in there... the clause just before or after abortion and separation of church and state.

80 posted on 12/10/2002 12:32:39 PM PST by hattend
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To: Liz
. In most of the states that still criminalize sodomy, it doesn't matter, legally, whether a couple engaging in behavior (A), above, consists of two men, two women, or one of each.

That's how it was in Texas, too, until 1974. In that bell-bottomed year, the Texas Legislature made heterosexual sodomy legal, but it couldn't quite bring itself to do the same for gays. The result is that Texas is now one of only four states (the others being Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma) where it is a crime for gays to please each other in ways that are perfectly legal for straights. The panel that overturned the conviction saw this as discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Of course, this same battle of whether a state could prosecute a homosexual for behavior that is legal for a heterosexual could have been fought over "age of consent" laws. But that would have eliminated the term "consenting adults" and the fictional boogeyman Big Brother snooping in the bedrooms.

The fact of the matter is that overturning the law on this basis will "norm" age of consent laws downward for homosexual behavior. If the legislatures decide to revise their age of consent statutes, they will be doing it after their existing prohibitions of adults committing acts of homosexual sodomy (the only type of homosexual sex there is) on minors aged 14-17 have been struck down as discriminatory.

Homosexual adovocates and privacy defenders tell me that I'm taking this too far. I don't see how the courts could permit those laws to stand as written if they strike this one down under the grounds of "discrimination".

By the way, men and women are not discriminated against in Texas. Both may participate in acts of sodomy with one another, they are prohibited by law from participating in such acts with members of the same sex.

If this sounds like a sub-case of this lawsuit, be aware that there are those who have pushed for this precise change in age of consent laws (both in America and the UK).

88 posted on 12/10/2002 12:38:30 PM PST by weegee
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; scripter
PING
92 posted on 12/10/2002 12:41:32 PM PST by weegee
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To: Liz
One could replace the references to homosexual sodomy with "smoking marijuana" in the above article. It wouldn't do more to validate the position.
103 posted on 12/10/2002 12:59:11 PM PST by weegee
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To: Liz
According to Section 21.01 of the Texas Penal Code (readers of delicate sensibilities may at this point wish to skip down a few lines), " 'Deviate sexual intercourse' means: ...or (B) the penetration of the genitals or the anus of another person with an object."

I'm confused and I didn't see anyone else comment on this -- doesn't this mean that any doctor who inserts a catheter into a man's urethra, or a nurse inserting a tampon for a disabled woman, is in violation of this code? Wouldn't a gyno exam be in violation of this code? What about a proctology exam? Guess this means that down Texas way guys don't have to worry about hearing the doctor SNAP on the glove and say "Bend over now and cough."

:-)

135 posted on 12/10/2002 1:22:23 PM PST by dark_lord
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To: Liz
Seems that threads like these don't need an actual article anymore on FR. Just post the headline and the same arguments will be posted with no regard to content of the article.
177 posted on 12/10/2002 1:53:46 PM PST by weegee
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To: Liz
. . . any contact between any part of the genitals of one person and the mouth. . .

Hold the phone!

182 posted on 12/10/2002 1:58:51 PM PST by Saundra Duffy
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To: Liz
Pro Sodomy bump!
217 posted on 12/10/2002 2:30:26 PM PST by DAnconia55
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To: Liz
When a man and woman marry, they become one. They're allowed to please each other any way they want.
When it comes to homosexual fetishes, I feel if they're allowed the same rights as normal people, why not include animals, children, parked cars, or dead people? A sick fetish is just a sick fetish, no matter how you look at it.
243 posted on 12/10/2002 2:48:22 PM PST by concerned about politics
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To: Liz
Anyway, sodomy laws are a standing insult to, among others, millions of respectable citizens who happen to be gay.

There's no such thing as a respectable gay person. Who respects them?

247 posted on 12/10/2002 2:50:21 PM PST by concerned about politics
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