Man's Law or God's Law -- Which Should Take Priority?

Bush Country "Heads Up" Newsletter | 8/9/2002 | Bush Country

[Lev]

Well, we'll leave the theology for another day. Just wanted to make a brief point that secularists rarely turn their "skepticism" on themselves.
Something in the Bible about a speck and a mote in one's eye...anyway.

I didn't claim that it's possible to reach consensus on man's law. Not sure where "a speck and a mote in one's eye" comes from. Do you want to answer my question? Regards.

[HumanaeVitae]

Here's my position on this issue. If you are a Christian and take your faith seriously (I'm an "orthodox" conservative Catholic), you probably aren't going to engage in homosexual behavior, and if you do you know that you're sinning.

As far as society goes, I'm not for imposing my religion on anybody. However, if we didn't make laws based on what history teaches us, then every generation we'd have to throw out the entire body of Anglo-American law and start fresh. Obviously, we can't do that.

Anyone who studies history knows that the teachings of the Bible are confirmed over and over and over again. Homosexuality was, is, and always will be dangerous to the social order. If homosexuality is so harmless, why do almost all successful civilizations supress it? Similarly, abortion and infanticide are credited by many scholars as having lead to the collapse of both Greece and Rome; and today we're seeing the same thing in the West again with women aborting their children by the millions, which IMHO is the prime cause of mass illegal immigration here and in Europe.

The Bible tells us homosexuality is depraved, sinful behavior; history tells us that it is dangerous to society.

Cheers...HV

[HumanaeVitae]

Actually, see the above answer. Cheers...HV

[Consort]

The old cannon vs canon argument.

[F.J. Mitchell]

Man's laws, God's laws-if they do not protect the innocent from predators, they are not laws at all. The Boy Scouts has for many generations been an organization that is trusted by parents, to reinforce and further the proper developement of their son's into honorable, stable, young men who are responsible, reasonable, patriotic and holsome gentlemen. An organization that enhances the values of the parents, instead of undermining them. An organization that is trusted to instill confidence in the boys masculinity and acceptance of the obligations and responsibilities that go with it. They don't need sick adult leaders who are uncertain of their own sexual identies, misleading and confusing boys at such a vulnerable time in their lives.

THe Homosexual community, just like the greens, the feminists and other subcultural tyrants of today, seem to have unlimited funds, time, and influence among Judges, politicians and the media. THey seem to have the power to destroy any and all who stand in the way of their agenda to perverterize the United States of America.

It is hard to determine just when the voice of degeneracy became the most shrill and obeyed screech in the land. It could have been Roe vs Wade, many million dead babies ago, or it could have been even earlier. Roe vs Wade was definately the beginning of the age when the totally innocent and the totally helpless were demonized and marked for death by the highest court in the land and by the every willing liberal media. Unborn babies ever since have been defined as leeches, violating a woman's right to choose as though the unborn made the decision to create the pregnancy.

Now the same and kindred monsters who declared babies a menace to those who chose irresponsible heterosexual acts, are declaring the rules that regulate The boy Scouts of America and the holsom heteresexual boys and leaders of Scouting, a menace to irresponsible homosexual adults seeking fertile ground for the indoctrination and recruiting new inductees into perversion. THey are telling the Scouts:"It's The gay way or the highway."

It's time to impeach judges, retire politicians, and boycott the merdia, the United Way and Corporations both great and small, who are siding with the perverts over the Scouts.

[stuartcr]

I honestly believe that these laws would be here today, regardless of what the bible says. There are many laws in countries that are not Christian.

[HumanaeVitae]

Right. Even without the Bible, almost all successful societies ban homosexuality, or at least supress it. By the way, why is it that abortion, pornography, pedophilia and homosexuality all seem to show up, throughout history, in societies at the same time, i.e. near the end? Symptoms of the same disease, IMHO.

[stuartcr]

It could be because all the societies you are talking about, are European or mid-east, and are the ones that have ended. I don't have enough info about the great Eastern or North or South American societies and if abortion, pedophilia, pornography, etc. played a big part in their demise.

[maxwellp]

Re your post #26 - you said it all! May I add one thing - why are gay men pushing so hard to be accepted by the Boy Scouts as leaders? To me, the Catholic Church, and I am Catholic, should have listened to the Boy Scouts!

[gitmo]

14. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing.
20. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22. For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
23. but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25. Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[F.J. Mitchell]

" Why are gay men pushing so hard to be accepted by the Boy Scouts as leaders?"

I believe the answer to that is clear.

I'm not Catholic, but I don't condemn the whole church for the actions of a minority, and have been witness to the good it has done for almost 70 years. I agree with you, the Church should have adopted a stance similar to the Scouts.

[Robert A Cook PE]

". I don't have enough info about the great Eastern or North or South American societies and if abortion, pedophilia, pornography, etc. played a big part in their demise....

Well, let's see.

No society has EVER tried to kill its babies before (by the dozens, the hundreds, the thousands, or the millions) for "convenience" of a female who doesn't want stretch marks but who wants to fun of a ten-second orgasm.

Until now - with the mass marketing convenience of paper, printing, TV, movies, the net, and videos - no society could afford to create pornography: what are they going to do?

Carve stones into erotic statues? Or get food, water, clothes?

No society (until now) has succeeded: at best China could be considered to have stagnated since the early dynasties.... but they "did" nothing and did "rise" past a 8-9-10th century technology. Sure, they "invented" several things.

But as a society they stagnated for 4000 years in nothing further than manual slavery and animal energy.

The Aztecs, Incas, Cambodians, ..... all failed.

No societ has succeeded to the point where there are the "excess" people (that "allows" abortion to be considered) until today's European capitalistic/Christian/Western societies enabled us to harness energy and technology.

[kinsman redeemer]

Thanks

[stuartcr]

People have been trying to prevent/abort births for a long time. Until recently, no society could do it with less than harmful affects to the mother. Could just be part of the natural progression.