MCSEs: We are all idiots

Myelabs.com ^ | 11/5/01 11:44:36 AM | Editorial Staff

[Moto]

I am A+/MCSE/CNA certified. It took me $10,000, a lot of work, and almost a year to acquire these certifications. Since this was a career change for me I took an entry level networking job where they knew from the bat I would have a lot to learn as I went along. This was the best money and time I have ever spent.

A certification by itself doesn't mean a whole lot. Neither does experience. Having the experience behind you AND the certification that proved you learned something at your last job is everything. Also, today's businesses want people with good soft skills. I would suggest working on these if you haven't refined them already.

Having my MSCE behind me has allowed me to absorb information at an much higher rate than my co-workers who don't have a solid foundation upon which to build. If you are expecting to get this cert. and land an $80,000 a year job as a network administrator...good luck, not gonna happen. If you are serious about acquiring knowledge you can put to use in the IT field that will give you some solid footing to stand on while you learn more...it's not a bad way to go.

P/S I would say the minimum for actually learning the material the MCSE tests are designed to test is 6 months, 50 hours a week. You could probably just study to pass the tests and get it in 6 weeks, but you would only look like an idiot the first time you interviewed, or god forbid, showed up for work.

[Poohbah]

Well, I script-kiddied a Cisco Router in my client's SE&I lab...completely FUBAR'd the network, so NOTHING worked right. YEE-HAW, that was phun!

They think I'm an e733T hAXor gHOD! And all that just for reading bugtraq, a CCNA exam guide, and playing with a router in the company lab for a few days...

[Justa]

I have no idea about the UofA's program. I qualified for a 4-year VA scholarship for a computer science degree program at OSU but after checking their program there was all of 4 courses on computers/networking. I decided if I went there I'd just have to study software and take certifications after I got out so I declined. I've been taking classes since Spring and have been able to pass all but one exam on the first attempt. I've spent about $1,500 so far for 3 classes and 3 exams. Imo it's best to find a good VoTech with a high turnover of curriculum so they'll likely have the latest courses available. They're swapping out the 2000 MCSE courses for the XP MCSE courses because of the demand for XP over 2000 Pro. Imo, it's best to be flexible and most university programs aren't.

Oh, and Shop Around. Lots of these schools charge a Bundle for the same curricula. I saved nearly $3K taking my classes, exams and studying locally whereas at SMU classes for the MCP alone would have cost me $2,500. The 2 classes I took here cost $200 each including the books. People networking with other students in your area is also a big plus as you can swap books and decide the best study material per class and certification. I went thru 2000 Server using 3 books. The MS course book was the least preferred of the 3.

[rdb3]

So, are you Linux certified yet?

Why, yes, I am.

[SamAdams76]

I went through an MCSE program in 1998. I must say it did me a lot of good in my current job (managing a service department). Not only can my employees not bullshit me but I am pretty much self-sufficient with the NT network at the office. I run circles around the guys from Home Office that are supposed to be supporting it and have never logged a single call at the Help Desk. I can create shares, map to them, troubleshoot problems, etc.

The only drawback is that everybody at my workplace used to cast shadows in my office doorway all day long with their problems. "I can't print, I can't see the network, my mouse is frozen, etc., etc." It got to the point that I couldn't get my own work done. So I had to start playing dumb and pretending I didn't know how to fix their silly problems.

Anyway, the MCSE training was pretty rigorous. Passing those tests are not easy. I doubt that I will re-certify on Windows 2000 as I have the base knowledge to pick up on it on my own.

[Dominic Harr]

I WAS a Microsoft employee; I am NOT one now.

In another thread, post 45, you posted, "You may be fairly wealthy, but I am VERY wealthy, and I didnt need a DotCom boom; just 8 years in Redmond kicking Sun's ass up and down the valley. "

So you're the 'George Stephanopolous' of the Microsoft world.

They made you rich, now they can do no wrong. I'd say you have a tremendous motivation for bias. Can you see why I might say that?

[Dominic Harr]

• Again, you asshole.

• or I will be forced to hunt you down.

• Dont make me take the gloves off on you

• and you will regret ever joining this forum.

Microsoft *has* paid people to surf boards in the past. But no, I don't believe they're paying you to do this. I don't believe anyone would pay *you* to try and make their points for them.

So you're right, I'm sorry. You're just an *ex* Microsoft employee. Forgive me if suggesting you were a current employee was so heinous that you felt so, um, excited.

[Dominic Harr]

I have been passive with you to this point; you misrepresent me again, and you will pay for it.

You have *no* idea how tempting it is to slap the 'abuse' button.

But have no fear . . . I prefer to just take it and continue to dish it out.

Besides, much scarier people have threatened me in the past. It's hard to be too impressed now.

[Tax Government]

MCSE certificates might be more meaningful if the exam contained 5000 questions. The study guide alone would fill a bookshelf, and that's the way it ought to be.

[Tax Government]

If I said there is a frequent poster on this and other Microsoft threads who 1) is as close to a Microsoft cult member as one can imagine; 2) displays adolescent hostility to other posters; 3) might reasonably engrave his Microsoft employee number on his tombstone or tattoo it; 4) makes the comparison between Nazi Brownshirts and Microsoft meployees sound plausible, and 5) somehow thinks working for Microsoft justifies hostility in the name of competitiveness... would you have to guess who I have in mind?

Where that person came from, there have been many more. If there were an antibiotic for hubris, treating Redmond alone would set hubris back 100 years.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

You sound like you know what you're talking about. I, too, took a stab at the MCSE because I truly thought I would like it (not to mention I was really hating my job at the time). I did it for the right reasons, took my time going over the material and trying everything I could hands on. After awhile, it didn't take much to notice pretty much what this article nails down, and I sort of dropped the whole thing.

Now, I'm in another job and happier, doing the work I went to college to learn, and probably far too long in to change now. I think it was for the best and I am glad now that I stopped before I started parting with some serious money for all of the testing.

[Justa]

I'm mulling over whether to go for the 70-240 by the end of December (when its retired) or work towards CompTIA's Linux+.

The NT5 kernal is great but for the future I just don't see businesses hooking into .Net's propriatary network. I first looked to Novell 5.1 running 2000Pro as a replacement for NT4/98. However, after debugging the numerous cross-platform payloads of CodeRed.C from my system I've essentially washed my hands of MS.

What DEC, IBM and Apple were in the mid-80's MS has become now. It's retreating into it's own propriatary network like the previous did. It's successor will be the same to MS as MS was to those it previously vanquished: cheap, stable, easy to run, with the broadest application base -i.e. Linux. It's the same basic formula MS used, just via a different channel now.

[relee]

Congrats.

Bootcamp?

[AppyPappy]

Linux distros:

Mandrake - I'm a COBOL programmer who wants to learn Linux
RedHat - I'm a Microsoft clone who wants to learn Linux.
Slackware - I like to hack kernels and compile apps (RPM's are for wimps), I am smarter than any Linux user and I can't wait to leave my job at KFC so I can play with Linux. SLACK RULEZ!

[rdb3]

Oh, no. No bootcamp for me.

Just studying and using Redhat from it's 5.0 version till now (7.2). Plus, I have a strong background in UNIX.

Fairly expensive to take the test, but it was a piece of cake.

[tholling]

There are two types of MCSE's...

There are those who download braindumps, pass the tests, get a job as a "Help Desk Analist" and enjoy reading about aliens and area 51 on the web between calls. There are others who actually bust their butts till 3AM, understand kerberos, certificate authorities, RIS, etc., actually own at least one suit and actually wear it (with a properly tied tie).

The latter do not sweat profusely when they have to speak to the CIO in a presales setting, can walk into a VP's office and explain what went wrong without breaking out in hives and know how to properly use Visio, Excel, Word and the english language. They are honest, professional, show up on time, know how to search the knowledge base, always return calls and never forget that the network is just a tool for profit.

The former are doomed to an existence of troubleshooting Toshiba laptops over the phone.

The point I make is thus... you get out what you put in. There is a difference between a 35k/yr MCSE who has worked the help desk for the past six years and a consultant who paid his dues and now demands $125/hr plus travel. My dog can get an MCSE cert. It's worth it only if you make it worth it.

Lets roll!

Tholling
MCSE MCT, Compaq ASE/APS/API, A+,

[Justa]

I'd get Network+ too. It shows you know the basics of networks which is must when setting-up a distributed 2000 network. Most of the nagging problems I hear about with 2000 Server are Active Directory issues based upon a poorly planned network infrastructure because the installer didn't understand his network's hardware limitations.