Posted on 03/11/2024 11:33:28 AM PDT by ChicagoConservative27
I hope the NATO nations agree to 50% of their GDP. The quicker these globalist cutouts posing as nations go tits up, the safer the world will be.
Ahhh,
You have “sovereignty” as your argument, got it.
So how is Ukraine under our thumb any more sovereign?
Who do you think picked most the key leaders in Ukraine?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
What does it mean when a US bank (JPMC) and asset holding company (Blackrock) runs your nations finances?
How about when a US VP years ago “demands” that Ukraine fire one of their top state prosecutors (because he was getting to close for comfort with some of the deals the Biden’s had made), and then comes back home and brags about it. I have got to post this, it’s “epic:” https://oversight.house.gov/timeline/ukraine-11/biden-firing-ukraine-prosecutor-clip/
“Sovereignty” what exactly does that mean to you? US control is sovereign, Russian control is oppression?
2014 was the key date, even the Maiden was orchestrated by us and we basically admit to that. That is when the US took control an began to “purge” Russian influence in Ukraine.
Roughly 20% of the population in Ukraine is ethnic Russian, they were major trade partners, ~ 1/3 of the people have family of some sort in the other nation, at various times what today is Ukraine once was Russia, they border each other, (((and how exactly do we come into the picture?)))
Russia can’t keep up with our MSM, big tech, the over $5 billion spent just by the Department of State in Ukraine up until 2014, our so called NGO’s, CIA, NSA, foreign aid, military assistance, even our private sector which gets cleared and basically coordinated through the State Department and DoD. In 2014 we essentially took over Ukraine.
If there were even the smallest shred of truth behind your argument, we would have gotten behind Minsk, which was all about deescalation and getting all foreign combatants / influence out of Ukraine. But we were the first one to violate it, in fact, before, during it’s signing, and after. We had no intentions on a peaceful resolution.
Since you likely don’t know what Minsk was: https://www.unian.info/politics/1043394-minsk-agreement-full-text-in-english.html
+1
>> If this were truly all about NATO expansion, as the Russian apologists claim ...
You’re confusing apologizing with objectivity
I don’t care what European nations spend on their own defense.
The defense of Western and Eastern Europe is on them......Period.
Never forget, Great Power Nations decide when and where they want to fight......regardless of NATO ‘paperwork.’
In 1962 the US risked a nuclear war when the Soviets wanted to base nuclear weapons in Cuba, and there you have an island with 90 miles of water between us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
In 1983 we invaded Grenada, because they were building a runway on this island 1,280 miles from Florida, which could accommodate Soviet bombers and heavy transports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Grenada
What folks like him want to do is pretend away the severity of what we were doing.
We would NEVER accept what we were expecting Russia to accept, (((not even today.)))
No major power accepts another playing on their border, and even we tread lightly regards Taiwan.
-—We unilaterally decided to bring Ukraine into NATO: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
-—We did this without any willingness to negotiate any sort of limitations on what we can base there.
-—Then we fast tracked their admission.
-—And we refused to talk to the Russians about this in earnest.
What more is there to say?
Fear and Hate rule they are not of G-d.
What a novel idea, defending your own country.
Poland Calls on NATO Allies to Raise Defence Spending to Three Per Cent of GDP
“WW III here we come...”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“WWIII here we come” you say...
Well... on the contrary! The more we raise our readiness to fight, the less chance there will be war. Remember, Putin only invades weak countries. Weakness attracts violence. Thats why some women get raped, because they are weaker and unarmed... and will therefore be attacked by brute criminals who prey on weakness.
If the criminals and rapists would know in advance that every woman wears a gun and is trained to use it... rape-cases would diminish by 95%.
Have you ever heard the term : “If you want peace, prepare for war!” ?
Or this one: “Hope for the best while preparing for the worst!” ?
Don’t forget that Trump is the one who pushed NATO-members to increase their spendings for their own respective armies to at least 2%.
Thus, when Poland says Every NATO member should invest 3% Poland is 100% in line with the Trump philosophy. Good right?
Trump was a true interventionist in foreign countries when he was President.
Lets not forget the 300 Russian troops he massacred in Syria.
https://themedialine.org/headlines/pompeo-us-killed-300-russians-in-syria/
The eradications of ISIS,
He leveled a Russian/Syrian military air-base with 59 Tomahawks (Tucker went mad on Trump on this... on his live Foxnews show).
Trump assassinated Iranian military leaders, with Smart bombs
He also assassinated scores of Islamic terrorist leaders.
Trump also reacted with a lot of toughness after Russian military officials incentivized the killing of American troops in Afghanistan by paying bounties to Taliban fighters for every American soldier killed.
Tump was a Reaganesque interventionist in foreign countries.
He even said that he would NEVER had abandoned Americas airbases in Afghanistan.
And he gave the mission to US troops to “take the oil” in Syria.
Trump also sent shiploads of high-tech US weaponry to Ukraine.
He was also the one who initiated massive sanctions against Russia.
Trump expelled 60 Russian diplomats from America.
And the list goes on... and on.... and on...
His non-stop interventions in foreign countries helped secure Americas security. You may now think that Trump is a neo-con? Well yes he is, in his own very unique way. He understands security, THAT is what matters.
On another note:
France will this year of 2024 surpass the 2% suggested level in military spending within NATO.
The newly joined NATO member Sweden will start paying 2.5% right of the bat!
Thats a first and a historic powerful move for Sweden.
Do not add me to your multiple person pings because I don’t intend to sit and argue with a passel of zeepers. Some of you are very long winded and repeat the same content over and over.
I have better things to do.
The Euros thought they could bluff and bluster through the Russian complaints by using rhetoric backed up by old stocks of ammo and equipment in their respective basements and attics.
Now that the old stocks have all been used up it seems they might have to make real fiscal and political choices.
Prediction: rhetoric gets ramped down and modest fiscal injections get made into armed forces readiness.
Imagine it is Russia in every instance reacting to us, not us to them, we are leading (calling the shots) on all these issues, with them "reacting" to us.
We invaded Iraq, Russian aligned.
We attacked and over threw the government in Libya, Russian aligned.
We invaded and attacked Syria, a formal Russian ally since 1970 with air and naval bases there.
We attempted over throwing the government in Venezuela, Russian aligned.
We offered NATO to Ukraine in 2014.
We offered NATO to the Republic of Georgia in 2008.
We offered NATO to Ukraine 2021, despite Russian protest and legit security concerns on their behalf (which we just ignore), us not willing to accept if in their shoes (total hypocrites), us lying about NATO East expansion (which we just pretend we didn't), withdrawing from a Ballistic Missile Treaty (which we don't even consider even though it plays a role in all of this) and it wasn't until after this that Russia began amassing troops along the Ukrainian border...
Cause and effect - a timeline quickly dispels your argument.
Companies in defense like Boeing that make mistakes in production need to increase their business.
So fear of Russia is peddled as well as provocation of Russia as was the case since 1997 when Bill Clinton set course with NATO’s eastward expansion.
The more NATO spends on defense the more $$$$ US defense contractors will pocket.
Trump called on them to spend more so I guess he did his part.
The fear of Putin is used as an additional prod.
Bro, don’t tack my name onto your group posts please. Thx.
“POUND THOSE WAR DRUMS!! World War 3 will be a piece of cake.”
All we have to do is kick the door in...
War is nothing more than methods to enrich those who Eisenhower warned us about.
https://youtu.be/SEGpTu8sVKI?si=k9wD8ZMkrY40I4al
Canada has never met their 2%.
You put forward interesting comments to this debate.
So here are my answers:
Red6:
“Imagine this scenario: Russia is weak and no longer even a true near peer. We know this.”
USA-FRANCE:
Russia national economy is weak yes, its about the size of Italy’s.
However, It has a massive military complex machinery inherited from the Soviet Union. +30% of Russia’s entire national budget is now dedicated for war and for the aggression on Ukraine. +30% is mind-boggling! They can produce 3 million shells a year... Next year in 2025 Europe will be able to produce 1,5 million per year. America’s and Europe’s economies are not built for waging permanent wars. Russia is.
Then you said:
“Imagine it is Russia in every instance reacting to us... “
Our “invasion” of Iraq / Afghanistan, our short (non-invasive) intervention in Libya, etc...
USA-FRANCE:
We TEMPORARILY invaded Afghanistan because they were refusing to handover bin Laden who killed 3000 civilians in America in multiple terrorist attacks.
That has nothing to do with Afghanistan being “Russian-Aligned)
We never ANNEXED Afghanistan.
We initially invaded Iraq because of its blatant violation of international law as it illegally invaded ANNEXED Kuwait. France helped America to liberate it - and many other nations within the coalition. Evidently it had nothing to do with Iraq being “Russian aligned”.
In Libya, Reagan and Obama each made short military interventions there because of Libyas deliberate terrorist attack on Pan Am Flight 103, and later the imminent massacre it was prepared to commit against its own people. France was actually the main player in that military intervention, and got a helping hand from America.
There was never any American invasions there. And no ANNEXATION of Libya.
The whole thing was done in a matter of days. Thus and again, it had nothing to do with Libya being “Russian aligned”.
Then you said : “We attempted throwing the government in Venezuela.”
USA-FRANCE:
Well that was never really proven, and anyway America never even imagined any kind of invasion or ANNEXATION of Venezuela.
The you said: “We offered NATO to Ukraine in 2014.”
USA-FRANCE:
Let me remind you that Germany and France vetoed in 2008 any attempt by Ukraine to join NATO. Big mistake. Back then Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy were leading their respective countries. They were weak, and semi-pro Russia for economical reasons. They were compromised by Russia.
However... Sarkozy made France join NATO again! But that was before he became compromised by Russia...
There was zero chance that Ukraine would be a member of NATO:
And to top it all Zelensky even said this:
“Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
But Russia invaded anyway... purely for imperialist, colonialist, financial reasons.
And here is yet another smoking gun concerning Russias malevolence, deceit and lies:
Vladimir Chizhov, Russia’s ambassador to the EU (DAYS BEFORE THEY ATTACKED UKRAINE): “It’s not an issue of readiness. Russia has no plans to invade either Ukraine or any other country. It’s a bluff created not in Russia, but in those countries that are now spreading this hysterical message, I would say, across Europe and the world.”
Whole dialog here:
https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/27/russia-has-no-plans-to-invade-either-ukraine-or-any-other-country-says-moscow-s-top-eu-dip
SO... you undestand better now ?
I tend to agree but I also question the idea that the so called globalists want WW3 and want to destroy Russia. Why? War with Russia would kill millions. They have what,
12K nuclear weapons? I don’t believe even the crazies at WEF can’t be desirious of global nuclear war. Yet sites like FR and GP are filled with posts saying exactly that.
“The fear of Putin is used as an additional prod.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Who would fear Putin if he wasn’t attacking and annexing sovereign countries?
Imagine, if America suddenly annexed the UK, Italy, Sweden or Spain... don’t you think that all of Europe would be fearful of America if it did such a crazy thing?
Russia illegally annexed parts of Ukraine (a true deeply Western European country) which capital Kiev was actually founded by the the Swedish Vikings in 882 (so know you know why so many Ukrainian women are blondes... interesting fact).
Russia invaded Ukraine even though it had previously officially recognized all of Ukraine’s sovereign borders (which includes Crimea).
Sweden and Finland would NEVER have entered NATO if it wasn’t for Putin’s spectacular miscalculation when he decided to rape Ukraine’ borders with 400.000 invading troops.
Ukrainians, Trump, and most common sense people want BORDERS respected.
Putin has decided all by himself to become a prod to put fear in the West.
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