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How Does It End? Fissures Emerge Over What Constitutes Victory in Ukraine
New York Times ^ | 26th May 2022 | David E. Sanger

Posted on 05/26/2022 8:57:38 PM PDT by Cronos

Henry Kissinger, the 99-year old former secretary of state, suggested that Ukraine would likely have to give up some territory in a negotiated settlement, though he added that “ideally the dividing line should be a return to the status quo” before the invasion, which included the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the seizure of parts of the Donbas.

“Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself,’’ Mr. Kissinger concluded.

Almost immediately, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine accused Mr. Kissinger of appeasement, retorting angrily that “I get the sense that instead of the year 2022, Mr. Kissinger has 1938 on his calendar.’’ He was referring to the year Hitler began his sweep across Europe — the event that caused Mr. Kissinger, then a teenager, to flee with his family to New York. “Nobody heard from him then that it was necessary to adapt to the Nazis instead of fleeing them or fighting them.”

...Three months ago, Mr. Putin’s own strategic objective was to take all of Ukraine — a task he thought he could accomplish in mere days. When that failed in spectacular fashion, he retreated to Plan B, withdrawing his forces to Ukraine’s east and south. It then became clear that he could not take key cities like Kharkiv and Odesa. Now the battle has come down to the Donbas, the bleak, industrial heartland of Ukraine, a relatively small area where he has already made gains, including the brutal takeover of Mariupol and a land bridge to Crimea. His greatest leverage is his naval blockade of the ports Ukraine needs to export wheat and other farm products, a linchpin of the Ukrainian economy and a major source of food for the world.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: 10percent4bigguy; angryneoconsonfr; appeasement; blueandyellowdrank; buhbyeodesa; buhbyeodessa; clownworld; davidesanger; europe; failingthefailedfail; goatsofsnakeisland; hunterscashcow; keepdreamingsanger; land4peace; landforpeace; moarhorsepoop; neocons4biden; nikolaevisnext; nyslimes; nytimes; putinsbuttboys; sangerisaclown; sangertheclown; slovianskisnext; snakeisland; surrenderpootinthy; thedurantytimes; theghostofkiev; thegoatsofkiev; thenewnarrative; uketards; ukrainenotwinning; ukraineslushfund; war; wdtimes; yousankmyazovstal; yousankmydonbass; yousankmylyman; zelenskytriggered
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“Putin, whether we like it or not, will have to bring home some bacon, and Mariupol is a small slice, but a slice,” Dov S. Zakheim, a former senior official in the Defense Department, said in a recent interview
1 posted on 05/26/2022 8:57:38 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Finnish prime minister in irpin.

2 posted on 05/26/2022 9:00:48 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

latest state on the ground

3 posted on 05/26/2022 9:02:32 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

“Three months ago, Mr. Putin’s own strategic objective was to take all of Ukraine — a task he thought he could accomplish in mere days.”

...and the NY Times bases that ‘fact’ on what, exactly?


4 posted on 05/26/2022 9:09:20 PM PDT by BobL (Putin isn't sending gays into our schools to groom my children, but anti-Putin people are)
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To: BobL

The New York Times employs a crack team of mind readers and witch doctors to figure out the thoughts inside the heads of other people.

That is what they mean when they use phrases like “experts say”....


5 posted on 05/26/2022 9:18:33 PM PDT by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
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To: BobL; cgbg

That’s not just the new York times,
But Putin’s own statements, putin sending the elite paratroopers yo capture Kyiv and failing, and Putin sending hundreds of tanks to capture Kyiv.

And failing.

Your President Putin has failed multiple times during his failed invasion of Ukraine


6 posted on 05/26/2022 9:23:58 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: BobL

#4. On the operational plans captured from Russian forces within the first week of the invasion. Russia’s original plan was to capture the entire country in fifteen days by attacking on four fronts and capturing all major cities including Kyiv. The rest of the operation would be mop up. The President of Belarus also showed the Russian invasion map on state television, confirming this.


7 posted on 05/26/2022 9:26:13 PM PDT by Widget Jr
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To: Cronos

So you don’t have a link either regarding the claim that Putin planned to take Kiev with 40,000 troops. Just speculation...


8 posted on 05/26/2022 9:30:00 PM PDT by BobL (Putin isn't sending gays into our schools to groom my children, but anti-Putin people are)
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To: Widget Jr

“On the operational plans captured from Russian forces within the first week of the invasion.”

Let me guess, the Ghost of Kiev obtained them.


9 posted on 05/26/2022 9:31:19 PM PDT by BobL (Putin isn't sending gays into our schools to groom my children, but anti-Putin people are)
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To: Cronos

“Your President Putin”

Ah—so did you read my mind as well?

Did you reach that amazing insight with remote viewing or a ouija board or maybe a dowsing stick?


10 posted on 05/26/2022 9:33:38 PM PDT by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
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To: BobL

One of the duties of the CIA’s disinformation directorate is to issue fake Russian plans to anyone dumb enough to believe them.


11 posted on 05/26/2022 9:34:52 PM PDT by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
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To: cgbg

“One of the duties of the CIA’s disinformation directorate is to issue fake Russian plans to anyone dumb enough to believe them.”

What’s tough to believe is that people on our side are PROVING the Democrats right in that we’re the idiots.


12 posted on 05/26/2022 9:36:54 PM PDT by BobL (Putin isn't sending gays into our schools to groom my children, but anti-Putin people are)
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To: BobL
Let me guess, the Ghost of Kiev obtained them.

The Ghost of Kiev obtained them, and while he wasn't looking, the Goats of Kiev ate the plans.

13 posted on 05/26/2022 9:43:08 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: BobL

Oh stop your lies. They didn’t have a 20 mile convoy outside Kiev as a diversion.


14 posted on 05/26/2022 9:44:25 PM PDT by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: BobL
“On the operational plans captured from Russian forces within the first week of the invasion.”

Many many years go, the Germans got hold of operational plans for the invasion of Fortress Europe from a dead body that washed up on a beach...

15 posted on 05/26/2022 9:44:52 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: BobL

If a dictat6 sends

1. Elite paratroopers to capture its targets capital
2. 40,000 troops (as you said) to capture the country’s capital

Any sane person would see that the dictator was trying to capture that capital city.


16 posted on 05/26/2022 9:45:39 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: cgbg

Your mind said “My, cgbg, President Putin “??

Interesting


17 posted on 05/26/2022 9:46:22 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Williams

“Oh stop your lies. They didn’t have a 20 mile convoy outside Kiev as a diversion.”

Tell that to your Azov friends who found themselves TRAPPED in Mariupol in the first week. No one from Kiev was available to help them. Now they’re cooling their heels in DPR’s prisons, wondering if getting those tattoos was a really a good idea.


18 posted on 05/26/2022 9:47:41 PM PDT by BobL (Putin isn't sending gays into our schools to groom my children, but anti-Putin people are)
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To: BobL

19 posted on 05/26/2022 9:48:23 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Williams

We do not know what the Russian strategy was and is.

That is the fact.

Any claims to the contrary are just blatant propaganda.


20 posted on 05/26/2022 9:48:29 PM PDT by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
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