Posted on 04/27/2018 11:22:59 AM PDT by ethom
“if you go back to the Civil War it was the Republicans that really did the thing.”
Did what thing? Republicans ‘did’ the Civil War? Huh?
. I haven’t done enough research on conservatives to call myself or be called one. I’m just refusing to be enslaved by monolithic thought.
12:01 PM · Apr 27, 2018
https://mobile.twitter.com/kanyewest/status/989897228511670272
I wouldn't call that opening line a way of engaging in reasonable discourse, Lent. Why the seeming hostility there?
That is a reasonable interpretation I would accept.
Democrat Party has ALWAYS been the Slave Party.
In my opinion, nearly anyone examined in that day could be considered guilty of racism by today’s standards. (definitely by today’s standards!) I try to avoid judging people back then like this, but if I read something vile said by Lincoln about blacks, I would judge him differently. From what I know, his concerns were blacks and whites coexisting with each other.
I do not believe that was very far out of the mainstream of that day, in 1858, that a politician could say that on a stump would not have been unusual, IMO.
What would likely have been unusual at that time is for someone running for public office to take the counter view of social and political equality, approval of intermarriage, etc.
Whaaat...Abraham Lincoln wasn’t really a Vampire Hunter????
:)
The Republicans certainly don’t have the documented virulent racist history that the Democrats do, that’s for sure.
What the Republicans DO have is a sign “Racist” taped on their backs that they allowed the real racists to place there without putting up a fight, and that is shameful enough to me.
Careful, he probably knows it well but also understands that the (black) people he is really speaking to don’t. The language used is trying to get them to listen.
Most folks still believe, from their public education, that the two parties “flipped” - so it was really the Democrats that were the party of Lincoln.
I admit that I wasn’t considering that he could be speaking in a deliberate way for a focused audience… The issue I had when I saw it was the concept of accepting a false premise.
I don’t know who this guy is, and I laud him as a member of the black community, Because that isn’t an easy stance to take… Especially for an entertainer.
I hear you, it isn’t something I personally wanted to hear, and don’t accept. That said, Kanye is arguably the most influential and relevant person in the entire black community.
PDJT has the entire media machine trying to tear him down and with one carefully crafted message he cuts straight through them. Late night TV is attacking Kanye. They’re losing their minds over this.
The stranglehold the DNC has had over this guaranteed voting block is threatened. They’ve overplayed their hand and the only thing they know to do in response is attack, ridicule, and destroy those that threaten them - which, in this case, will just make it worse. They’re exposed, as this is exactly what Kanye is saying.
I’m wondering if this is orchestrated. Did Trump know of Kanye’s sentiment and reach out to him? Right at the time Diamond and Silk are testifying about conservative censorship...the timing is curious.
Dunno. I've looked at this issue more than most, and people would be shocked to discover just how racist were some of the people they admire, such as Lincoln.
Lincoln does not bear scrutiny unless you are of a mind to lose respect for him. He supported the Black Codes of Illinois, which forbade free black people from living in Illinois. We just don't hear about how racist were Lincoln and the other Republicans because that does not fit the narrative we have all been taught to believe. They were in fact very racist.
What the Republicans DO have is a sign “Racist” taped on their backs that they allowed the real racists to place there without putting up a fight, and that is shameful enough to me.
I think this started in the late sixties, early seventies, and probably is the result of prominent people like Barry Goldwater opposing the Civil Rights act of 1964, and then people like Earl Butz and his comments.
LBJ had just started this vote buying scheme that mostly targeted blacks, (The Great Society) and so the appearance that Democrats cared about poor black people was created and nurtured by all the proponents of the Democrat party.
Also Nixon's "Southern Strategy" was touted as proof of Republican racism, and several other factors played into it as well.
This is a complex topic, but I have found a few ways to simplify it.
Lincoln was a big city Liberal Lawyer from Illinois that believed in Taxing, Spending and Borrowing, and he also believed in expanding the role of government, and that government should subsidize industry (Corporate Welfare).
His supporters were Wealthy Liberal Internationalists from mostly Urban strongholds of New York, Chicago, Boston, etc, and his support came from what later became the heavily Unionized (as in Labor Unions) parts of the country.
By modern standards, Lincoln would be a Liberal Democrat. He expanded government, and basically created the every expanding monster leviathan with which we have been dealing ever since.
If he has any positions that would fit the modern definition of "conservative", I don't know what they would be.
LOLOL
Your great great grandfather and my great great grandfather would likely be considered virulent racists by today’s standards, even though by the standards of their day they might have been considered quite compassionate and even-handed, or even dangerously mushy on race relations back then.
I think we live in a world where one has to look at situations and make choices, and not all the choices are polar ends of the spectrum...that hasn’t changed much since 1860 when the issue was coming to a head.
In the 1860 election, people today would have liked to see someone like Salmon Chase or even someone like John Brown (!) running for President, but those people were not realistic kinds of people to run for the Presidency.
The choice was between a man who may have had low expectations about the intellectual or social capabilities of blacks, but thought they should be free, and someone who didn’t think the Federal government should have a say in the issue of whether a man could be kept as a slave in the USA, and that it should be left up to the states.
Point is, by today’s standards, a very small minority from that time would have borne up to our scrutiny with respect to race. I don’t think Lincoln is much different.
But he was at the very least in the camp of people who didn’t think blacks should be kept in bondage regardless of how capable or incapable he personally thought they were. That is quite likely a significant difference from many public figures of the day who were either indifferent to the plight of blacks in slavery, or open advocates of slavery.
In my opinion, if you were of a abolitionist mind, you could do a lot worse than backing Lincoln back then.
Right...don’t get me wrong-I am for any black person who stands up and declares they don’t want to be on the “Democrat Plantation” any more.
I think it takes guts to do it, so anyone who says it (even someone I dislike) has approval from me.
It is one of the reasons I have a huge amount of respect for people like Thomas Sowell and Diamond and Silk, because the blowback, ostracism, and outright abuse they get from the portion of the black community that buys into the fantasy that the Democrats are their friends is quite real and viscous.
Imagine if that changed :)
Yeah. That would be a very good thing. They need REAL leaders in that community to make it happen.
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