Posted on 02/25/2018 11:53:02 AM PST by WisconsinRep
There is nothing necessarily wrong with being kosher for health reasons, and one must obey their conscience in such matters of personal liberty, but the dietary laws were clearly part of the typological ceremonial laws which pointed to Christ and the new covenant realities. Which promised (Jer. 31:31-34) new covenant, instituted by the Lord's death, was distinctly said to be "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 31:32)
The manner in which it is different is revealed in the NT, in particular the epistles, and Christians or who are called such who seek to impose the dietary laws typically marginalize or reject these inspired letters, as typically do prohomosexual types who group the ceremonial and temple laws together with basic universal moral laws.
But in which epistles a clear distinction is made btwn the two classes, upholding the moral law while teaching that the literal observance of such everlasting-type commands that foreshadowed the coming and work of Christ “stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:10) "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” (Col. 2:13-17)
Thus, rather than a theocracy, the Lord stated,
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)
And while the universally applicable moral requirements of the Law are reiterated (including 9 out of the 10 commandments) the keeping the dietary law and temple ordinances are not, and in contrast, the Holy Spirit said by Paul,
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. (Romans 14:14)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Timothy 4:4-5; cf. Mark 7:18,19)
Likewise when "there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses," (Acts 15:5)
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:6-10)
However, rather than a lower standard of practical holiness being promoted, instead under the new covenant the believe is to seek to be in heart and in deed what he is in position, on Christ's account:
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: (Colossians 3:1-5)
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-5)
Meanwhile, those who require the literal observance of dietary and ceremonial laws must be consistent and keep all the everlasting-type commands that foreshadowed the coming and work of Christ, of which there are many, besides the first one listed below which was not just for the Jews:
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1 |
Gn. 9:16; Rainbow in clouds a sign of everlasting covenant |
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2 |
Gn. 17:2-13; Circumcision an everlasting covenant. |
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3 |
.Ex.31:14-17; 7th day Sabbath a sign for a perpetual covenant throughout all Israel's generations. |
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4 |
Lv.24:5-8; Offering of shewbread-everlasting covenant-perpetual statute. |
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5 |
Num.18:19; Heave offering: a statute forever-covenant of salt forever. |
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6 |
.Num.25:12,13; Righteous Phineas given a covenant of peace..a covenant of everlasting priesthood. |
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7 |
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8 |
Ex.12:17; Feast of unleavened bread an ordinance forever. |
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9 |
Ex.27:20,21; Lv.24:3; light burning in Tabernacle: a statute forever. |
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10 |
Ex. 28:43; Nakedness of priests to be covered by a statute forever. |
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11 |
Ex.29:9; 40:15; Holy garments for the Aaronic Priesthood for a perpetual statute. |
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12 |
Ex.29:28; Lv.10:15; Num.18:8,11,18; Heave offering eaten by a statute forever |
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13 |
Ex.29:42; Animal sacrifices to be offered continually throughout all Israel's generations |
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14 |
Ex.30:8; Incense to be burned in Tab. perpetually throughout all generations. |
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15 |
Ex.30:10: Atonement on altar throughout all your generations. |
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16 |
Ex.30:21: Ceremonial washing by a statute forever. |
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17 |
Ex.30:31: Anointing with Holy Oil unto YHWH for sons of Aaron throughout all their generations. |
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18 |
Lv.3:17: Eating of fat + blood prohibited a perpetual statute. |
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19 |
Lv.6:13: Fire ever to be burning on the altar, to never go out. |
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20 |
Lv.6:18-20: Law of the meat offering: a statute forever. |
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21 |
Lv.6:22: Meat offering of priests: a statute forever. |
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22 |
Lv,7:34-36: Peace offerings a statute forever. |
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23 |
Lv.10:9: Drinking of wine, strong drink forbidden to priests going into Tab.: statute forever. |
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24 |
Lv.16:29-34: Day of atonement a everlasting statute, a statute forever. |
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25 |
Lv.17:7: Bringing in of sacrifices into Tab., not worshipping devils, a statute forever. |
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26 |
Lv23:14: Offering of first fruits unto YHWH a statute forever. |
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Lv.23:21: Feast of Pentecost: a statute forever. |
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28 |
Lv.23:41: Feast of Tabernacles: a statute forever. |
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29 |
Lv.25:34: Law of land reserved for Levites: a perpetual possession. |
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30 |
Num.10:8: Feast of Trumpets: an ordinance forever. |
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31 |
Num.10:15: One law for both Israelites and for the stranger in the land: an ordinance 4ever. |
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32 |
Num.18:23; Dt.18:5: Service of the Tab. reserved for Levites by a statute forever. |
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33 |
Num19:10: Law of washing garments after slaying red heifer: a statute forever. |
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34 |
Num.19:21:Water of separation a perpetual statute. |
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35 |
Dt.7:9 YHWH keeps covenant+mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments, as revealed in His rightly divided Word. |
More on this subject by God's grace, and 7th day sabbath-keeping.
Thank you! Shall give it a deeper read later. (Did I meet you at a party 12 years ago? Hahahaha)
Have you found a reference of even one “Church” that talks about ownership”? The Seven Churches that are described in Revelation are dealing with the seven types of assemblies. The word Church came from the Middle English “chereche”, which was translated from the Greek Kuriakon. Kurios means “Pertaining to God”. It replaced the original Greek Ecclesia, which meant “assembly”. That was translated from the original Hebrew “ keneseth “ which means Assembly. Then When Israel declared its independence, they formed their government assembly and called it “Knesset” after the original Hebrew. So, what I am saying, is when you think of “Church” Ownership, in relation to Real Estate, you must realize that it is different that the Spiritual Assembly that Paul talked about. Truly, the first recognized Bldg. was the one I described in Northern Jordan in about 230 CE. Before then, the Christians “assembled” on Friday night on the beginning of Sabbath, either in their homes, or Synagogues or anywhere else that they could assemble. The Romans persecuted them terribly and would not allow assembly or any ownership until Constantine declared that persecution of all religions would cease in all of the Provinces. Eusebius, in his “Church History” (Book 10) states that the confiscated property was returned to its rightful owners, and there were Church Dedications everywhere. I strongly suggest you read Eusebius’ Church History” to understand the evolution of Church ownership of Real Estate. To sum up, 1) the early “assembly” or Churches, were meeting in homes and Synagogues or other assembly places, 2) The Seven Churches that Paul described were the Assemblies of different types of believers 3) The first recorded actual Church Real Estate was Jordan’s Aqaba Church in about 230 CE, 4) most of the Church Bldgs. from that time were destroyed and replaced with Pagan Temples 5) Constantine became the first Head of the Roman Church and stopped the persecutions of the Church and restored Church property throughout the Roman World. 6) The Church Real Estate has been acquired and lost, and reacquired through the centuries, with Muslim acquisition, and then Roman Church reacquisition during the Crusades, and then Muslim reacquisition from 1285 to about 1600 and acquired by the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and so on, and so forth. I hope this brief discussion gives you some insight when I say that Church Ownership is more complicated than you might imagine. In fact, the “Buildings or Real Estate” is not the Church. The Church truly is the believers that assemble in order to worship the Messiah. My point is that Buildings come and go, but the Body of Christ will always be present.
I didn’t address your question. The whole issue about the Churches in Israel are about “Property Taxes”. It is similar to an event in my own life. The YMCA owned a 17 story building in Downtown Dallas for decades. It was a tax exempt property until they decided to sell it. The building was demolished and a new one built, but the tax exemption on the property was not transferable because it was no longer attached to the YMCA. The same thing happened with the First Baptist Church in Downtown Dallas, which was just across the street. It likewise was demolished and sold for an enormous amount of money, but the exemption was not passed on. The Churches in Israel have amassed vast amount of properties that have never been used for religious purposes because until the Jews declared Independence, the land was always considered fairly worthless. Now, many are starting to sell their properties or build hotels and businesses on it and expect to avoid paying taxes. That is the truth that I am trying to explain. It is disturbing that the Churches are trying to demonize the “Joos” again by claiming that they are trying to persecute them.
Oh wow. Their hotels are being taxed. They must be going through hell.
I know some chrstians I'm pretty sure you don't support. Pretty sure you're just here to club Israel over the head for Holy European Chromosomes.
Is that intended as some kind of pejorative way of spelling Christian? It is repeated is your posts in this thread.
That’s pretty clever, rolling back the Israeli Jews’ dislike for being proselytized onto me. Won’t work. Mormons are a form of Christianity and so are JWs. How often do Jews come knocking on your door trying to convert you to Judaism? Why should they welcome you doing that to them?
Not likely: must have been a different ham.
Thanks for telling me who is a Biblical Christian.
Why not just tell the missionary that you are not interested? Do you believe that other Jewish people who might be interested, do not have the right to hear the Gospel and to get support from Christians in their personal conscience decision? Your position actually sounds a lot like the Muslim position, which is ironic since a few people in this thread have grouped Christians and Muslims!
Given the amount of foreign aid given to other countries, including Israel, I think it is fair to expect that Israel allow its people freedom of conscience and association, no?
Or do you think you need the State to intervene and squash Christians, who defend the right to life of every living person on the planet?
You didn’t answer my question.
How often have Jews knocked on your door trying to convert you? What makes you think the Judeo- half of Judeo-Christian needs fixing?
No, I’ve never had a Jewish person knock on my door, but it would not bother me if one did, mainly because I am very secure in my faith.
As a Christian, we are called to bring the Gospel to the whole world. The early church did it, and we continue to do it today. No one is forcing anyone to convert. Conversion needs to be free, sincere and from the heart.
You referred to us as separate halves of Judeo-Christian, so why be too worried about someone becoming Christian?
I am offended when the government school system promotes moral relativism in children, which is far worse than having someone knock on my door.
I’m not ‘worried’ about any of it. I sympathize with Israeli Jews who find Christian proselytizing as annoying to them as Muslims. That’s the extent of my involvement. Beyond that, it seems strange that Christians think the Chosen People need fixing.
It has something to do with the New Covenant. “Chosen” doesn’t mean so much in that context. Believers are grafted into Israel. We *all* need to be “fixed”, or sanctified by God the Father. Christians in mission work are just “sharing the fix”, so to speak.
Not sure why some Israeli Jews would be annoyed by a missionary, unless they were fearful of others hearing the truth.
I am not threatened by Muslims attempting to proselytize anyone.
I am not worried about Jews or Catholics attempting to proselytize anyone.
I am not sure what Waller’s objective is.
I know that the objective of Christians should be.
The idea that a Jewish person embracing Jesus Christ being less ethnically Jewish is about as silly as a Chinese person embracing Jesus Christ being less ethnically Chinese. Jesus was Jewish. Messianic Jews are still Jewish. How much middle Eastern Jewish DNA do Central European Jewish people have?? What about Sammy Davis Jr, when he was alive?
This is not a team sport. Christ is already the winner. Bringing the Gospel to non-Believers is an act of love, and obedience to God.
The founder of NARAL, Bernard Nathanson was a Jewish. He converted to Catholicism *after* he adopted the pro-life position. Would he have been better off remaining as a Jewish atheist? Maybe that would satisfy some of his former friends, but it would not help him after he died.
dhimmi’s ain’t taking it anymore.
Allegations are not facts, and rhetorical overkill is human error. Forgiveness is Divine. Investigate further.
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