Breaking: US Destroyer Severely Damaged in Collision Near Japan- sailors reported missing

CNN ^ | 06-16-2017 | CNN

[BykrBayb]

Bump to post 101.

[Mariner]

” as FReepers rush to place all the blame on our Navy personnel”

That’s because some of us actually spent time at sea and know what we are talking about.

It was ABSOLUTELY and INDISPUTABLY the fault of the US crew. They were transiting in the most sophisticated warship to ever sail and got broadsided by a 39,000 ton container ship at low speed.

How stupid can you be to allow THAT to happen?

[BykrBayb]

I’m no expert, so you tell me. Is 19.3 knots low speed? And do container ships do their own thing, or is there a way for their crew to control them? Is it possible the container ship played some role in this, or do you really believe the destroyer rammed the container ship?

[Semper911]

as FReepers rush to place all the blame on our Navy personnel.

There are rules of navigation. These rules determine who does what in meeting situations. If a vessel is off your starboard side, you will see its port running light. That running light is red. That red light reminds you that you must "give way", or yield.

The other vessel will see your starboard running light, which is green. That green light says you are the "stand on" vessel. You are to maintain your course and allow the other vessel to complete a give way maneuver.

There are no exceptions or special circumstances that would have relieved the navy ship of its responsibility to give way. It is not "blaming", it is placing responsibility. Every man and woman in the Navy understands this.

[BykrBayb]

I understand that. What I don’t get, is how the destroyer rammed the cargo ship, and how there was nothing the cargo ship could have done to avoid being hit by the destroyer. And I don’t get how the cargo ship’s speed of 19.3 knots was slower than the destroyer’s speed of 0 knots. Or how the destroyer rammed the bow of the cargo ship with its own starboard side.

Yes, I get it that the crew of the destroyer bears some responsibility. I don’t get how FReepers can overlook the facts in their rush to declare our navy a bunch of incompetent boobs.

[Jmouse007]

Really wants to make one want to "join" todays armed service.

As a former serviceman who served before all of the PC madness took place within the armed services... no thanks.

[Semper911]

What I don’t get, is how the destroyer rammed the cargo ship, and how there was nothing the cargo ship could have done to avoid being hit by the destroyer. And I don’t get how the cargo ship’s speed of 19.3 knots was slower than the destroyer’s speed of 0 knots. Or how the destroyer rammed the bow of the cargo ship with its own starboard side.

I am really not sure what you're talking about here. I'll wait for the accident report for the actual details. It happened less than 24 hours ago.

Most of what you said is preposterous, and likely a misunderstanding of the early reports.

[LonePalm]

On a destroyer such as the Fitzgerald, Officer of the Deck (Underway) is generally a LTJG or a LT. (O-2 and O-3).

If it was a LT then they were either the Operations or Weapons Department heads. Generally the Chief Engineer doesn't stand deck watches although he would be qualified to.

The LTJGs would likely have stood 150-200 watches on the bridge as Junior Officer of the Deck (JOOD), as hands on training to become OOD.

I will note again that it is over 35 years since I last had the deck and I am doing this from memory.

One thing is bothering me here. Why weren't those in CIC screaming at the bridge about an impending collision? I was CIC Officer as a JG. There is one item drilled into EVERYONE who used the surface search radar, CBDR (Constant Bearing, Decreasing Range). If a radar contact is CBDR then there will be a collision unless someone reduces speed and/or changes course.

The Nautical Rules determine which ship is privileged and which ship is burdened. The privileged ship is required to maintain course and speed while the burdened ship must maneuver. This is important as you can't have both ships maneuvering and changing speed. However, if two ships get close enough that a collision is imminent then both ships are 'in extremis' and required to act to avoid a collision.

In this case the Fitzgerald was the burdened ship.

"Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam."

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[LonePalm]

In reduced visibility (rain or fog) a ship is required to reduce speed to whatever speed where they can stop the ship in HALF the visible distance. If this means coming to a complete stop then you stop.

"Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam."

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[Churchillspirit]

First mention of the missing sailors.

......"Oh hear us when we call to Thee for those in peril on the sea".

[LonePalm]

Roger that.

BykrBayb, see my post 54 for a graphic that might help you under stand the situation.

"Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam."

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[BykrBayb]

Your posts have been clear, and in line with the facts as we know them for now.

[Rebelbase]

” I used to flounder gig around Southport, NC.”

I’m curious, did you ever cross over and gig around Fort Fisher? There’s an area of flats inside the jetty that look like they’d be really good gigging.

[AnonymousConservative]

I’ve always thought FR should have a policy, where when you post a story, you post two comments with it. Comment one says, “Please post comments and chat in response to this first comment.”

The second comment would say, “Please only post updates, expert information, and facts relevant to this story in response to this second comment.”

Then when a story broke, if you want the traditional model, just load the whole thread. If you want humorous comments, click view replies to comment one. If you want updates and experts giving info, you could just click on “view replies” to comment two, and get just the steady stream of pure updates and facts distilled right out.

[CopperTop]

Nahhh. Mostly around the "spoil area" between the CG Station and Southport Marina. Over behind Battery Island, too.
Anywhere the Cape Fear had less influence would be better for water clarity. But a hike from SPT proper. Up Snow's Cut was pretty water. d:^)

[LonePalm]

Things got more complicated with the release of the track followed by the ACX Crystal.

Now I am not so sure the Fitzgerald was at fault.

In any event I am thankful that it was a relatively low speed collision as the Law of Gross Tonnages always applies in a collision at sea.

For those not familiar, the Law of Gross Tonnages says that the ship with the greater gross tonnage wins.

"Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam."

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[Innovative]

Update:

U.S. and Japan launch air-and-sea search for 7 missing U.S. sailors

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japans-coast-guard-leads-effort-to-find-7-missing-us-sailors/2017/06/17/ef307678-5355-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html?utm_term=.c88f54dc58f2

[dsc]

Is there any word on the missing today?

[sargon]

I seriously doubt this was an “accident”...

[seenenuf]

Thank you for your observation about some posters who
can’t resist showing off - not much of worth.
Decades ago, FR was my go-to! I could read FR more often now, but weigh available time, these times are different. There is a lot more completion for eyeballs, since FR began.
I’ll continue to wade through pages of posts to find real sharing of thoughtful opinion, knowledge or news. Somedays
it feels like searching for that pony in a pile of ??
I don’t have a solution to the pollution problem, without
stepping on ‘free-speech’ on FR. A pity.