Massad Ayoob: 5 Things To Know After A Defensive Shooting

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/20/massad-ayoob-5-things-to-know-after-a-defensive-shooting/#ixzz4bvESOWDn ^ | Massad Ayoob

[Strac6]

Never forget that when you shoot someone, however necessarily and justifiably, you look an awful lot like a killer and he looks an awful lot like a victim. The stereotype can take hold quickly if you don’t act to let the authorities – from the first responding officer to the designated lead investigator – know what happened. The old saying “You only get one chance to make a first impression” is absolutely true here.

Decades ago, I developed a five-point checklist of things I feel the righteous shooter needs to establish as soon as possible in the aftermath. It has been widely adopted, sometimes with attribution and sometimes without, and is now recommended by entities ranging from the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network to the US Concealed Carry Association. I’m rather proud of that.

Five-Point Checklist

Establish the active dynamic. That is, let the authorities know immediately what happened here. If you have harmed someone in self-defense, always remember that the active dynamic is not what you did to him, it’s what he was trying to do to you or another victim. The active dynamic is his action that forced your lawful response. It’s not, “I shot him.” It’s, “This man tried to kill me.” Or, “This man attacked my wife.” Whatever it was that led to your use of force.This makes it clear that the guy on the ground doing a convincing imitation of a victim is in fact the criminal perpetrator. It makes it clear that you, the person with the smoking gun who just shot someone, are in fact the intended victim. If one or more of your attackers has left the scene, explain that now, and give their description. It’s going to be hard for people to see you as the innocent party if you failed to let police know that a violent criminal was at large.

Advise the police that you will sign the complaint. There are two roles open in this particular play: victim and perpetrator. As noted, appearances can create mistaken role reversal if things aren’t immediately clarified. By making a statement to the police to the effect of “I will sign the complaint,” you reinforce the fact that you are the victim-complainant, the good guy or gal, and the person you’re signing the complaint on is the bad guy who forced you to harm him in legitimate defense of self or others. (Note: I would not advise using the phrase “I will press charges.” The reason is that legal terminology varies slightly jurisdiction to jurisdiction. While in many jurisdictions it is indeed the complainant who presses charges, there are some places where the local terminology is such that the prosecutor “presses charges.” If you inadvertently find yourself in one of those places and say “I will press charges,” it sounds to the police as if you have delusions of being the elected chief prosecutor, and you won’t be off to a good start. “I will sign the complaint” is neutral and universal.)

Point out the evidence. The scene will be chaotic. Witnesses will be trampling the scene. So will paramedics and police officers. I’ve seen cases of the bad guy’s gun being picked up by his accomplice or by a well-meaning neighbor who didn’t want to leave it where a child could find it. I’ve seen spent casings kicked away from their original resting place, or picked up in the treads of emergency personnel’s boots or the wheels of an ambulance gurney, thus altering the dimensions of the shooting scene and making it look like something it wasn’t. The sooner you point out the evidence to the first responding officers, the more likely it is to be secured. When you’ve done the right thing, evidence helps you.

Point out the witnesses. Witnesses worry about having to lose time from work to testify in court, or being the target for vengeance by criminals. A lot of them “don’t want to get involved.” Once they leave the scene unidentified, their testimony that would have helped to prove your innocence leaves with them. Point out the witnesses to the police at the first opportunity. (Some have asked, “What if the witness is a friend of the attacker and lies about what happened?” The fact is, he was going to do that anyway, so you haven’t lost anything. However, your having pointed him out to the police can be seen as an indication that you believed in your own innocence, or you wouldn’t have steered the police to him, and that can’t hurt.)

Politely decline further questioning until you have consulted an attorney. Studies show that, in the immediate aftermath of a life-threatening encounter, we may forget some things or get some details wrong. The questions to you will come at random as they occur to the officer, and you will answer them in the same order; in reviewing the cop’s notes and his recollection of the discussion later, this can create the false illusion that you were giving a narrative of events in the order in which they occurred, which of course is not the case. But later, when you do narrate events in the sequence of their occurrence, it creates a false perception that you have changed your story. Often, very frightening things that happened are blocked in short term memory by a subconscious that doesn’t want to recall them; when you mention something later that you didn’t mention at the scene, it sounds made up. You don’t want to answer detailed questions as to exact words spoken, distances, or time frames. None of us are human tape recorders. The tunnel vision that afflicts well over half of people caught up in something like a gunfight creates the literal optical illusion that things and people appear closer and larger than they are. If your memory tells you your attacker was six feet away when you shot him but he turns out to have been six yards away, you sound like a liar. Tachypsychia is likewise very common, the sense of things going into slow motion. It seemed to you as if the fight took a whole minute, and you say so, but a security camera shows it was actually only ten seconds, and now you look like a liar. The involved victim who had to fight for his or her very survival is the worst possible witness for measuring things in feet or inches, or counting how many shots were fired.

Experts recommend 24 to 48 hours between one of these “critical incidents,” as they are now euphemistically called in the emergency services, and when the participant is subjected to a detailed debriefing. The Force Science Institute recommends “one full sleep cycle.”

This is why my recommendation – practical advice, not legal advice – is to establish the active dynamic, indicate that you’ll sign the complaint, point out evidence and witnesses known to you…and then stop. Be polite. Do not raise your voice. I for one would answer subsequent questions with, “Officer, you’ll have my full cooperation after I’ve spoken with counsel.”

Read more:

[dragnet2]

Come on. They lie often like the msm. Don't believe me, read how they blew some of the witnesses off the stand. Some were flat out lying in that case and were cooked by their own fabricated statements. This happens often.☺

Btw, I was not referring to blm bs. They're going to do what they're allowed to do, regardless. Their minds were made up on the spot. Some of the witness statements prove this. See Ferguson for example.

[dragnet2]

Had cops “told their story” early, the other side’s story would never have gotten legs.

No offense but you seem naive. Do you think if Wilson jumped back in his vehicle, got on his PA after the shoot and explained and declared his innocents, you think anyone there would have bought it?

As it is, Hands Up - Don’t Shoot is still accepted BS by many.

Accepted by leftist idiots, crack pots, racist and the lying media. This is not complex.

[crosdaddy]

Exactly, look at Zimmerman, they (media) had video of him right away,and they doctored it, they had 911 call,and they doctored it. The meme was Zimmerman stalked and murdered St Trayvon, who was a mere baby boy,and on and on.

[dragnet2]

As it turned out, in Ferguson, the people who claimed the LEO shot Brown unnecessarily COULD NOT have seen what happened. They were elsewhere, but because the PD didn’t tell Officer Wilson’s “story” for days, the perp’s “friends” story was the only one the media had.

Once again, they lied in this scenario and they would tell you law enforcement was lying hours later if they had gave them Wilson's version of the event. They would be stupid to do that anyway. Every word they said would be litigated and if they didn't have time to investigate thoroughly, they'd get eaten alive legally later. Bet the rent.

[dragnet2]

As it turned out, in Ferguson, the people who claimed the LEO shot Brown unnecessarily COULD NOT have seen what happened. They were elsewhere, but because the PD didn’t tell Officer Wilson’s “story” for days, the perp’s “friends” story was the only one the media had.

Once again, they lied in this scenario and they would tell you law enforcement was lying hours later if they had gave them Wilson's version of the event. They would be stupid to do that anyway. Every word they said would be litigated and if they didn't have time to investigate thoroughly, they'd get eaten alive legally later. Bet the rent.

One more thing Strac, if they blew holes in a prematurely released statement from Wilson and the PD, it could have cost Wilson BIG as they'd use any errors or omissions to impeach Wilson's statement.

[dragnet2]

Yep.

[Strac6]

All your points avoid the reality that by the PD PIO not releasing the proper statement immediately, the lies were allowed to fester and grow.

Ayoob says the same thing. Tell your story, but do not answer follow on questions. If you do not say what happened, and then point out the physical evidence supporting your story, the other side will tell their story.

[dragnet2]

Again, you can’t stop lies. They were lying about the event before Brown went cold, still in the street. Did you not seen witness statements? Some lied. They’re minds were made up immediately, regardless of what the media ever said.

Even when his statement was released, they didn’t buy it.

[dragnet2]

And just a reminder, Wilson was not indicted. If he had to do this over, you can bet he’d go the same route.

[anton]

Awful advice. Guaranteed to get you charged.

Here is the correct advice:

1. Tell the cops you are the victim and you will fully cooperate, through your lawyer.

Call your lawyer. If you don’t have one, get one. A good one.

Don’t say another f’ing word until he tells you to.

[Strac6]

Did you even read the original post, and the creds of the man writing it?

[dragnet2]

That is sound advise.

[anton]

He’d make a great expert witness. Horrible advice to a shooter.

He is a moron if he thinks that a lot of glib talking at the scene is going to affect the investigation. No one gets it right immediately after a shooting. And, every mistake the shooter makes on chronology, sounds, movements, statements, appearances, etc. is a lie when it comes to the cold light of day a week or two later
And, half the stuff a prosecutor would ever have to prove, and some of it difficult to prove, is admitted by following that idiot’s bad advice.

Trust me on this. The police do not assume guilt when a person is smart enough to hold back his statement until he has legal advice.

[Hot Tabasco]

Not really enough. TRUTHFULLY add at least one act of aggression by the perp.

Thanks but I'll follow Ayoob's advice........he's made a living off it.

[Hot Tabasco]

something sharp and heavy, about C-3 to C-5

I truly enjoy reading comments from people who actually know combat vernacular. Hope you don't take offense when I ask you what C-3 to C-5 means, Is that Seal talk or just basic marine combat training talk?

And I especially loved your final touch "to ensure I broke his neck and spinal cord, ensuring he was a quadriplegic

You definitely know what you're doing dude............

[Strac6]

The C3, C4, and C5 vertebrae form the midsection of the cervical spine, near the base of the neck. Injuries to the nerves and tissue relating to the cervical region are the most severe of all spinal cord injuries because the higher up in the spine an injury occurs, the more damage that is caused to the central nervous system. Depending on the how severe the damage to the spinal cord is, the injury may be noted as complete or incomplete.

C3 Vertebrae

The C2 - C3 junction of the spinal column is important, as this is where flexion and extension occur (flexion is the movement of the chin toward the chest and extension is the backward movement of the head). Patients with spinal cord damage at the C3 level will have limited mobility in both their flexion and extension.

Symptoms of a C3 Level Injury

Symptoms of a spinal cord injury corresponding to C3 vertebrae include:

Limited range of motion
Loss of diaphragm function
Requirement of a ventilator for breathing
Paralysis in arms, hands, torso, and legs
Trouble controlling bladder and bowel function

C4 Vertebrae

The portion of the spinal cord which relates to the C4 vertebra directly affects the diaphragm. Patients with C4 spinal cord injuries typically need 24 hour-a-day support to breathe and maintain oxygen levels.
Symptoms of a C4 Level Injury

Symptoms of a spinal cord injury corresponding to C4 vertebrae include:

Loss of diaphragm function
Potential requirement of a ventilator for breathing
Limited range of motion
Paralysis in arms, hands, torso, and legs
Trouble controlling bladder and bowel function

C5 Vertebrae

Damage to the spinal cord at the C5 vertebra affects the vocal cords, biceps, and deltoid muscles in the upper arms. Unlike some of the higher cervical injuries, a patient with a C5 spinal cord injury will likely be able to breath and speak on their own.
Symptoms of a C5 Level Injury

Symptoms of a spinal cord injury corresponding to C5 vertebrae include:

Ability to speak and breathe on their own, but breathing will be weak
Paralysis in torso, legs, wrists, and hands
Paralysis may be experienced on one or both sides
Patients may be able to raise their arms and/or bend their elbows
Patients will need assistance with daily living, but may have some independent function

The boxer’s injury in Million Dollar Baby; classic C-3 / C-5 injury.

BOTTOM LINE: If you’re going to hurt someone in lieu of killing them, for a crime where theor killing would be morally justified, ensure you hurt them to the extent they wake up every morning.... and go to bed every night.... wishing you had killed them, rather than just hurt them.

[Strac6]

Actually, no. The worst thing you want is a directionless LEO investigation.

1: Make a truthful set of statements as Ayoob dictates.

@: Point out evidence.

#: Do not answer questions

is smarter than staying silent. 10 years ago, silence was best, but today, it is not, because the live perp, or the dead perps friends will lie and tell false “side” of the story to make you look criminally negligent, and that will set the direction of the investigation.

Imagine this scenario. You go one on one with a mugger on the street. He is shot. You are not. You stay silent, while the perp swears he and his three friends we walking down the street when you started calling them “n*****s”, pulled a gun and started blasting. The perp, dead or otherwise, has his gun disappear off the street, or simply say they drew after you started blasting with your gun... and his friends swear to it.

Now put yourself in the place of the cop. Who are you going to target your investigation toward?

When said in the ghetto; “Swear to God, Officer, Swear to God” means the speaker is lying through his teeth.

Remember the Richard “Racehorse” Haynes “defense” of any person accused of murderer. Simply convince the jury that the dead clunk was such a bad guy that if somehow the clunk sprang back to life during Haynes’ closing argument, all 12 members of the jury would wrestle one another to get the gun in evidence to shoot him again, really dead this time!

Short form: “The decedent deserved to die, and my client deserved the honor of killing him.”

[anton]

Actually, yes. Your lawyer will be there in an hour and will provide better direction and keep your statements from becoming admissible if the police turn out to disagree with you.

The stupidest concept I ever heard to have the shooter attempting to direct the investigation with his own sttements.

[dragnet2]

“”You definitely know what you’re doing dude.””

Regarding post #96, if this, “dude” knows what they’re doing, then why is this “dude” copying then posting information they’ve obtained from another site onto this one?

www.spinalcord.com/c3-c4-c5-vertebrae-spinal-cord-injury

[trisham]

Thanks for sharing.