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What Have we Accomplished in Iraq? (Barf Alert!!!)
Townhall.com ^ | August 19, 2014 | Ron Paul

Posted on 08/19/2014 3:50:49 AM PDT by Kaslin

We have been at war with Iraq for 24 years, starting with Operations Desert Shield and Storm in 1990. Shortly after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait that year, the propaganda machine began agitating for a US attack on Iraq. We all remember the appearance before Congress of a young Kuwaiti woman claiming that the Iraqis were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators. The woman turned out to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US and the story was false, but it was enough to turn US opposition in favor of an attack.

This month, yet another US president - the fifth in a row - began bombing Iraq. He is also placing in US troops on the ground despite promising not to do so.

The second Iraq war in 2003 cost the US some two trillion dollars. According to estimates, more than one million deaths have occurred as a result of that war. Millions of tons of US bombs have fallen in Iraq almost steadily since 1991.

What have we accomplished? Where are we now, 24 years later? We are back where we started, at war in Iraq!

The US overthrew Saddam Hussein in the second Iraq war and put into place a puppet, Nouri al-Maliki. But after eight years, last week the US engineered a coup against Maliki to put in place yet another puppet. The US accused Maliki of misrule and divisiveness, but what really irritated the US government was his 2011 refusal to grant immunity to the thousands of US troops that Obama wanted to keep in the country.

Early this year, a radical Islamist group, ISIS, began taking over territory in Iraq, starting with Fallujah. The organization had been operating in Syria, strengthened by US support for the overthrow of the Syrian government. ISIS obtained a broad array of sophisticated US weapons in Syria, very often capturing them from other US-approved opposition groups. Some claim that lax screening criteria allowed some ISIS fighters to even participate in secret CIA training camps in Jordan and Turkey.

This month, ISIS became the target of a new US bombing campaign in Iraq. The pretext for the latest US attack was the plight of a religious minority in the Kurdish region currently under ISIS attack. The US government and media warned that up to 100,000 from this group, including some 40,000 stranded on a mountain, could be slaughtered if the US did not intervene at once. Americans unfortunately once again fell for this propaganda and US bombs began to fall. Last week, however, it was determined that only about 2,000 were on the mountain and many of them had been living there for years! They didn't want to be rescued!

This is not to say that the plight of many of these people is not tragic, but why is it that the US government did not say a word when three out of four Christians were forced out of Iraq during the ten year US occupation? Why has the US said nothing about the Christians slaughtered by its allies in Syria? What about all the Palestinians killed in Gaza or the ethnic Russians killed in east Ukraine?

The humanitarian situation was cynically manipulated by the Obama administration -- and echoed by the US media -- to provide a reason for the president to attack Iraq again. This time it was about yet another regime change, breaking Kurdistan away from Iraq and protection of the rich oil reserves there, and acceptance of a new US military presence on the ground in the country.

President Obama has started another war in Iraq and Congress is completely silent. No declaration, no authorization, not even a debate. After 24 years we are back where we started. Isn't it about time to re-think this failed interventionist policy? Isn't it time to stop trusting the government and its war propaganda? Isn't it time to leave Iraq alone?


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: antisemite; isolationist; paultard; ronpaul

1 posted on 08/19/2014 3:50:49 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

“Shortly after Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait that year, the propaganda machine began agitating for a US attack on Iraq”

LOST ME RIGHT THERE
I was in the middle of that one and the world and even the vaunted UN was pretty much in unanimous conclusion that Saddam needed to be booted, by force if necessary
I also recall Bush41 giving Saddam a 5 month deadline (FIVE MONTHS- D’OH! August 2 to January 16) to comply with UN resolutions to withdraw and starting the bombing within 24 hours of Saddam’s 5 MONTHS of thumbing his nose at the UN and the world


2 posted on 08/19/2014 3:57:53 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: Kaslin
Ron Paul, once in a blue moon, makes some good points and asks some relevant questions. Mark the article as one of those times.

We all supported W at the time, but in hindsight, the support or love one has of the man should not neutralize the rational questions and observations RP makes. Who hasn't doubted the decision to waste blood and resources on that desert hell hole?

3 posted on 08/19/2014 4:02:59 AM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: deadrock

That’s right. I don’t know why the “Barf Alert” was included here, when most of the points he raises here are absolutely on target.


4 posted on 08/19/2014 4:05:57 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Kaslin
... why is it that the US government did not say a word when three out of four Christians were forced out of Iraq during the ten year US occupation?

And most of that occupation took place under that "compassionate conservative" George W. Bush, who enjoyed a lot of support from Christian voters.

Some people go through life just begging to be conned, don't they?

5 posted on 08/19/2014 4:07:46 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Kaslin

Last week, however, it was determined that only about 2,000 were on the mountain and many of them had been living there for years! They didn’t want to be rescued!

First I’ve heard this, where did Loon Paul get this?


6 posted on 08/19/2014 4:13:35 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Kaslin


7 posted on 08/19/2014 4:25:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: silverleaf

I always wished they have never said a damn thing about WMD’s in the first place... From the day it was said and questioned, not a hindsight sort of thing, Just thought it was un-needed, as I supported going and taking Saddam out purely because of multiple UN violations and continually shooting at US planes and pilots daily flying UN missions... I think they found enough banned stuff including plans to restart programs plus Chemical weapons that are fairly commonly thought to have gone to Syria to Justify it anyway, but I just wish they would have taken the opportunity and forced the spineless UN to finally have some teeth!


8 posted on 08/19/2014 4:55:37 AM PDT by AzNASCARfan
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To: silverleaf

This is why I added the barf alert. Ron Paul forgets or ignores that Kuwait asked President George H.W. Bush for help


9 posted on 08/19/2014 4:56:41 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Alberta's Child; silverleaf

See post# 9 in my reply to silverleaf


10 posted on 08/19/2014 5:01:05 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

What have we accomplished in Missouri? For that matter, what have we accomplished in the US or DC for the last 6 years?


11 posted on 08/19/2014 5:23:56 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Kaslin
Actually, Dr. Paul is right to ask, "what have we accomplished in Iraq?"

I supported it initially, to wipe out the Islamofascists. But we didn't; there's more now than there ever were, and they are on the threshold of re-constituting their Caliphate.

So, really, what was accomplished? We lost so many precious lives in vain.

12 posted on 08/19/2014 6:39:27 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: Kaslin

Kuwait is just another Arab Muslim country.....They’ve sent money to terrorists too.


13 posted on 08/19/2014 6:41:46 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: deadrock
"We all supported W at the time"

Not all of us. Some of us even warned about the unConstitutional Patriot Act, the creation of Homeland Security and the TSA. We had Sadame in a box, he was going no where. W's war in Iraq was a bad idea. Pulling US Forces after the surge was a horrible idea. Saving the Kurds from ISIS is a very good idea. As usual Ron Paul get's it half right and half horribly wrong.

14 posted on 08/19/2014 7:07:29 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: Kaslin

The first Gulf war was to protect the petrol dollar, the petrol dollar is vital to American interests. HW just should have let Swarcoff (sp) finish the job (battle of annihilation) on the highway to hell.


15 posted on 08/19/2014 7:11:54 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb

The problem is we aren’t going to “save” the Kurds either we’re going to do to them what we’ve done before, we’ll stop support to early and leave them in the lurch. Especially with this president in charge.

You were right in saying we pulled out if Iraq too early and that’s my point here. That wasn’t Bush’s idea though as far as I know. Bush said near the end if his presidency that a status of forces agreement was vital for keeping Iraq stable. He left office before the negotiations for it and Obummer screwed that up too.

Again, this is the basic problem with our foreign policy: we aren’t consistent because we elect hawks one time (or two) then doves then hawks again etc. what does this do? It makes us half committed at best to wars we involve ourselves in. It’s been this way since WWII.

This is the problem. We need to decide as a nation once and for all if we are going to listen to Ron Paul and his isolationist ilk or not, and stick with the same policy for decades at least. There is no being “half-right” when it comes to foreign policy.


16 posted on 08/19/2014 7:18:37 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: jpsb

Sorry. But, is it safe to say most?


17 posted on 08/19/2014 7:19:35 AM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: deadrock
Yes "most" is accurate, I'd even go with "almost all of us" the opposition at the time was a tiny minority.

Re the Kurds, I certainly hope the US does all it reasonably can to help them survive the Islamic awaking taking place in the Middle East. I am not optimistic.

18 posted on 08/19/2014 7:34:48 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb

Neither am I.


19 posted on 08/19/2014 7:37:49 AM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: jpsb

If we’d only taken the hint after the ‘73 Embargo, we wouldn’t have needed to get involved in intra-Arab squabbles like that.


20 posted on 08/19/2014 7:38:57 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: wastoute

Excellent point


21 posted on 08/19/2014 7:53:42 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: FourtySeven
Well the war was a mistake but leaving to soon was a horrible mistake. So IMHO W screwed up but O made W's screw up many times worse. Here is what I would have done once the US was committed to ousting Sadame.

Appoint a military governor to rule Iraq until we decide that Iraqis are capable of self rule (no time table).
Take the oil fields an use the $$$$ to fund the occupation plus a little for the cost of the war.
Insurgents face summery execution if captured alive.
Any all uprisings against US rule are put down with overwhelming force via US air power or artillery. Ground troops for "mopping up" only.
Only allow approved friendly media into Iraq.
Put ordinary Iraqis to work building infrastructure.
Put former military Iraqis to work doing LE.
Insure equal rights for women and an education for girls.
Insure religious freedom for all
Allow Kurds to mostly govern themselves until an all inclusive government can the formed.
Make sure everyone that works/goes to school etc, has food and clean water.

The carrot, you play ball with the US you have plenty to eat and a few bucks in your pocket.
The stick, You oppose the US and you die, period, no exceptions.

22 posted on 08/19/2014 7:57:20 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: Kaslin
I wasn't aware that the U.S. military is supposed to be at the beck and call of Islamic governments all over the Middle East.

I do commend you for being honest, though. I contend that the U.S. military has been functioning as the de facto armed forces of powerful royal families in the Middle East for years. This is why, for example, the role of the Saudi royals in the 9/11 attacks has never been objectively assessed.

23 posted on 08/19/2014 7:59:44 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: FourtySeven
Bush did not leave office before the negotiations for the Status of Forces Agreement. He signed the Status of Forces Agreement himself in December of 2008.
24 posted on 08/19/2014 8:06:07 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Kaslin
Our brave warriors proved that freedom is possible despite the most evil dictators... but freedom cost blood and that the war is never really over... freedom requires eternal vigilance.

God Bless them all.

25 posted on 08/19/2014 8:07:51 AM PDT by SeaBiscuit (God Bless America)
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To: Alberta's Child

Well, you can blame the peanut farmer from Georgia for all of this. It’s because of him that we have trouble with the mooslims


26 posted on 08/19/2014 8:08:10 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: silverleaf

Removing Saddam has been disastrous for the entire region. His removal for payback for Scuds fired on Israel in the first war; nothing to do with US or regional security.


27 posted on 08/19/2014 8:40:03 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: deadrock
We all supported W at the time

No, "we" didn't all. It was a dangerous time to oppose war fever at FR without being banned, but a small number did their best to walk that narrow line.

28 posted on 08/19/2014 8:43:36 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: Kaslin

Is that a joke? The Middle East has been a turbulent, unstable region since the fall of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.


29 posted on 08/19/2014 8:49:03 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Romulus

Amen, brother.


30 posted on 08/19/2014 8:49:47 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Alberta's Child

Oh yeah you’re right.

Then Dummy screwed up the renegotiations when he wanted to pull the remaining forces out.

Thanks for the correction.


31 posted on 08/19/2014 8:53:13 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Kaslin
What did we accomplish in Libya? #BARACKOBAMASUNDECLAREDWAR
32 posted on 08/19/2014 9:52:36 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (ISIS has started up a slave trade in Iraq. Mission accomplshed, Barack, Mission accomplished.)
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To: Romulus

The whole disaster that was the so-called “Arab Spring” opened my eyes to the fact that trying to bring Democracy to the Arabs was a fool’s errand, and that despots like Saddam, while they are bad guys, are par for the course for the Arab world, just as the case with Assad.....But the alternatives are even worse.


33 posted on 08/19/2014 9:55:48 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Romulus

um yeah sure

invading a neighboring state over disputed historical territory claims and totally blowing off any shred of credibilty still retained by the UN was certainly not destabilizing to regional security

and the Saudis and other Gulf States (upon whom most of the free world, NOT just the US, depends for energy, and whose oilfields and coastal ports could have also been claimed by Saddam) were quite OK with it - surely Saddam’s invasion wouldn’t have set any precedent for other rogue states if it had not been challenged

major sarc

The SCUD statement (blame the Jooooos) is one of the dumbest accusations I’ve heard since 1992


34 posted on 08/19/2014 10:01:12 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: Kaslin
Certain things simply cannot be allowed to pass without comment.

According to estimates, more than one million deaths have occurred as a result of that war.

If Paul means a million casualties or civilian deaths, then the estimate that came up with that figure, that published in Lancet magazine, has become a byword for poor research methodology and is nearly universally recognized as inadequate and wildly inaccurate.

The US overthrew Saddam Hussein in the second Iraq war and put into place a puppet, Nouri al-Maliki.

One difficulty is that for all the noise made about "nation-building" among neocons and others, we actually did allow Maliki and his government sufficient autonomy to refuse us the ability to keep combat units in place, which is a major reason why we were unable to respond the the ISIS offensive. If he's a puppet, he's an awfully poor one.

What we accomplished in Iraq and in Afghanistan as well was to remove two state-level support sources from Islamic terrorism. That continues to be the case despite the current chaos in Iraq, which is trending the other direction, and despite whatever we can call the 0bama administration's "policy" in Afghanistan. That is what we've "accomplished in Iraq".

It is highly disingenuous for Paul to measure our success by our inability to produce peace in the region, something that has never been present going all the way back to ancient Sumeria. That wasn't why we invaded and it isn't something any reasonable person could expect.

35 posted on 08/19/2014 10:05:49 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Romulus

See 17.


36 posted on 08/19/2014 11:02:31 AM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: silverleaf

In the islamosphere, stability is a relative concept. We had some then. Now we have a shiitestorm that didn’t have to happen. I bet Mr. Netanyahu wishes he could put the clock back twelve years, even if he can’t say so in public. So do I.


37 posted on 08/19/2014 11:41:19 AM PDT by Romulus
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