Posted on 07/29/2014 12:39:31 PM PDT by elhombrelibre
Edited on 07/29/2014 12:53:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The 28-nation European Union agreed Tuesday on stronger economic sanctions against Russia amid ongoing anger concerning the conflict in eastern Ukraine and the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, the great majority of whose passengers were Europeans..
As expected, the sanctions -- to be outlined in detail Wednesday -- will target selected sectors of the Russian economy, including energy, finance and defense. New arms deals, exports of energy and oil-drilling technologies, and sales of items with both civilian and military applications will be forbidden.
He has handled Crimea and this plane destruction terribly and forced actions against him that he didn't need to accomplish his goals.
Two arrogant idiots are creating a situation that is going to continue to lead to many unnecessary of deaths of people each more worthy than either of them.
Boris Boroshensky was a heavy hitter and basically controlled Yeltzin, along with others who scammed Russian people... Hated Putin with a passion like no other for booting him out....Revenge doesn't even cover the lengths he was willing to go to take Putin down....and others like him got on board. Some didn't because they knew Boris was over the top in his obsession with Putin, and told him so.
Borishensky loved playing on Putin's doorstep (Ukraine), set up a foundation in Kiev to funnel revenues through....supported candidates who;d oppose Putins favored candidates...and the war was on. Boris spent mass revenues in Kiev and other places to oppose Putin. It's quite a story , in the end he tried to sue one of Putins Oligarch's and lost. By then he had lost much of his wealth and with it couldn't play in their park anymore. He hung himself and though rumors of course flew, he really did hang himself. Was depressed for months after his losses.
At any rate....Boroshensky had connections everywhere...including the US and other European countries...wasn't much for him to get an audience with nobility and politicians.....and so did his friends...who unlike Boris keep a low profile..... They know who to see and who's playing the cards in Ukraine. It's not about the peoples desire for freedom now...they're simply what's shuffled the deck...and there's players from both sides of the ocean in this game now.....Poroshenko's our guy 'Oligarch' but he's a far cry from having control of Kiev Gov. at this point....that war is hot and heavier then the one in E. Ukraine now.. Poroshenko has to consolidate his people, and will now that Yats is gone and you can expect the rest of the Maidan people to 'resign' along the way....especially if they're unwilling to play the game.
I agree. Both arrogant and both of them are ignorant.
You’re basically against anyone opposing Putin, right?
Well...no doubt they’re both arrogant as they come. Neither would be playing as they are if there weren’t high stakes involved over Ukraine.
Remember both said they would not go to war over Ukraine.....both have said the other one needs to stop this war....Both blame the other for MH17 directly or not....Both say the other has their military operating in Ukraine.... and on and on.
It’s pretty obvious why Putin would be involved with Ukraine....on his border....has Russians living there....been involved with trade etc. for years....his military ports there....and his pipelines running through it to other nations as well as throughout Europe.
It’s also understandable why the EU is involved.....they’ve been courting Ukraine for years, as they have other nations bordering Russia, with their ‘stated goal’ of expanding their Empire/Union all the way to the Urals.
Now the real question is why would the US/WE be so deeply involved in Ukraine.... Why WE have teams of our people before, during and after their revolutions, tinkering around in Ukraine...and why WE appointed who would be running the country, managing their service dept’s, instructing who does what, when, and where instead of Europe’s????
Nope. Exactly the opposite. Use the Reagan strategy of containment and strong, crippling economic warfare (and not just weak wussy sanctions).
Understood now — you are speaking of the Russian Oligarchs Putin pushed out. I thought a few posts back that you were postulating that a group of Oligarchs in Russia (and they certainly still have plenty of Oligarchs there too) were trying to take down Putin. Either way, if I was one of these people I’d be very careful of what I was ingesting, etc.
As for Arseniy Yatsenyuk, he said from the beginning that he was on a political suicide mission and did not expect to be in power long. He’s young - I’d give 2:1 odds he’ll be back in a high position, someday.
Also... I think you underestimate Maidan. For now, with a shooting war in the East, Poroshenko has a degree of popular support so long as the war doesn’t go badly. But if Poro mis-steps or oversteps or mismanages badly, esp. once the war is over, I think Maidan will eventually rise back up and toss him out too.
For a long time (is implied, I believe).
Maybe someone was bright enough to recognize that patterns often repeat.
~Also... I think you underestimate Maidan. For now, with a shooting war in the East, Poroshenko has a degree of popular support so long as the war doesn’t go badly. But if Poro mis-steps or oversteps or mismanages badly, esp. once the war is over, I think Maidan will eventually rise back up and toss him out too.~
The biggest problem for Poroshenko is that European political orientation and anti-Russian stance of Ukraine since the coup has ruined a national economy and there is no, absolutely no viable option to recover short to middle term.
All Ukrainian businesses are shaped to sell in Russia and to make things worse, the heart of their industry is southeast which is burning right now.
The rest of Ukraine is oxacart and only producing politicians.
Poroshenko would use every opportunity to keep the war going in order to distract people but their patience won’t last forever.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words but I can’t seem to read any of them. Perhaps you could provide some context?
“Right, they could never rise to our defense so they must suffer under Putin. I don’t think you’re making any sense at all. Because Putin kept them weak doesn’t mean he now has the right to pick them off like low hanging fruit so he can rebuild his Soviet Empire. Putin’s a malicious force in world. So of us get that. You don’t.”
If Putin is rebuilding the soviet empire, which I consed is certainly possible. Then why would we care? Russia already has enough nukes and military strength to make a war against them unthinkable.
What difference does it make if Russia controls Crimea or any of the other non-NATO countries?
My point is quite simple. If you want America to risk its money and treasure for you you should offer the same, and JOIN NATO or at least offer a mutual defense treaty.
The Ukraine did not do that, and so we should do Nothing to protect them who would do nothing to protect us.
Let what happened to the Ukraine be a lesion to every other country in the world that they need alliances, that they need to provide support if they expect to get support.
The U.S. Tax payer and soldure cannot and should not be expected to carry the defense burdens of the world for nothing!
You are aware that spell check is free on FReeRepublic, aren’t you? I don’t know anyone advocating that only the US carry the burden of keeping the world free.
Sorry to be slow to reply: Often work keeps me from FR for many days at a stretch.
As for your request:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko
I think you’d be surprised how fast Ukraine could recover if they can ditch the Russian style corruption & business models — admittedly a difficult task indeed.
See “Estonia”, which has far fewer resources, BTW.
A weak U.S. response leads to a medium scale nuclear war within 50 years. But not between the U.S. and Russia, most likely.
To paraphrase Henry Hazlitt: The goal is to see the problem as a whole, and not in fragments.
I'd also point out (a fragment, I suppose!) that at least some in Ukraine realized it was foolish to disarm. (WE talked them into giving up the 3rd largest nuke arsenal in the world in return for our "Security Assurances".) And, one reason Putin is so paranoid is that indeed many pro-west elements in Ukraine would be happy to join NATO.
I can’t disagree with that...
Then let them join NATO with what is left of their country. And let every other country in the world be warned.
You don’t get protection unless you offer it in exchange.
As for US Security assurances, I never heard of that. But seeing as the Ukraine only foolishly gave up their nukes. It sounds like a raw deal.
Putin has created win win situation.
By allowing the west to force him from eastern ukraine he allows them to claim a win. Meanwhile, he has the real prize, what he wanted all along...... Crimea.
The problem is that the separatists screwed up and downed an air liner instead of a military transport
It’ll all be over come October
~I think you’d be surprised how fast Ukraine could recover if they can ditch the Russian style corruption & business models — admittedly a difficult task indeed.
See “Estonia”, which has far fewer resources, BTW.~
Estonia is the whole different matter. Ukraine has no plan to get rid of “Russian style” which is more natural for them than for Russia itself. Learn to see through their ptopaganda.
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