Skip to comments.Forbes: Why That Story About Irish Babies In A Septic Tank Is A Hoax
Posted on 06/10/2014 9:04:38 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
Few of us are inclined to look a gift horse in the mouth, and that applies in spades to journalists running with a sensational news story. But even by normal media standards, recent reports about the bones of 796 babies being found in the septic tank of an Irish orphanage betray a degree of cynicism and irresponsibility rarely surpassed by allegedly reputable news organizations.
Although the media attributed the dumped in a septic tank allegation to Catherine Corless, a local amateur historian, she denies making it. Her attempt to correct the record was reported by the Irish Times newspaper on Saturday (see here) but has been almost entirely ignored by the same global media that so gleefully recycled the original suggestion.
Today the Irish Times has published a readers letter that has further undercut the story. Finbar McCormick, a professor of geography at Queens University Belfast, sharply admonished the media for describing the childrens last resting place as a septic tank. He added: The structure as described is much more likely to be a shaft burial vault, a common method of burial ...in many parts of Europe.
In the 19th century, deep brick-lined shafts were constructed and covered with a large slab which often doubled as a flatly laid headstone. These were common in 19th-century urban cemeteries ..Such tombs are still used extensively in Mediterranean countries. I recently saw such structures being constructed in a churchyard in Croatia. The shaft was made of concrete blocks, plastered internally and roofed with large concrete slabs.
[T]he verifiable facts that have emerged so far amount merely to a strong story for the media of one small country. The one fact that turned all this from a disturbing national story to a screaming global sensation is one that is almost certainly false.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
What I don't understand is why even some FReepers ran so gleefully with it. Why the multiple postings with comments like "Infanticide!" "Murder!" ? Why the zeal for "First the verdict, then (or never) the evidence"? Why the blood libel?
Why should I conceal my disgust?
ONE fair-minded non-Catholic FReeper private-messaged me with a sensible statement, as I agreed as follows:
"Catholics should be demanding a fair and unbiased accounting and not avoiding it or condemning anyone who brings it up."
Here we agree.
One of our most serious moral obligations is to respect, and demand respect for, the truth. Truth is what I would strive for, for myself; and what I would demand
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment. (John 7:24)
Bones from 796 babies?
This would keep the cast of “BONES” busy for a year.
Yeah, well, unfortunately, this is the dark side of FR. I didn’t even know such a side existed until about a year ago...
The original story was stupid for its claim and made no sense.
That's so unexpected!
Happy to see the truth has come out on this.
Check you mail. :)
My first visit to Dublin was in the late 60s. I’ll never forget the squalid conditions and the women wearing shawls over their heads and carrying barefoot, filthy children around. Yikes! It improved over the years. But I couldn’t wait to get out of that city.
"The nuns who ran the orphanage have long since gone to their reward but if they could speak for themselves they would no doubt claim they were doing their best in appalling circumstances."
I suspected that it was a mass burial site and that the nuns were doing the best they could under the circumstances. I'm glad this article shed some light.
I thought this sounded like a total hoax from the beginning - reminiscent of the ‘Philomena’ story. After reading the debunking of the entire movie by Bill Donahue, I will not see it. It’s wrong to make people think they are watching a true story when it’s a lying hatchet job, even if Dame Judi lent her star quality to the flick.
Now we’re back to “it’s not a septic tank it’s a crypt, and besides they’re not in there.” Well, where are they then?
The wild rationalizations and weird excuses from the FR faithful over the past week or so have been fascinating to watch. The Irish themselves are far more forthright and honest.
The Archbishop of Dublin warns that more mass graves are likely to be found:
More mass graves. That means Tuam has one. Maybe that’s why what has long and widely been understood to be a septic tank is now being sanitized into a “crypt”?
Isn’t this where Chief Justice Roberts got his babies? Ireland not a septic tank. He relegates the Constitution to that vessel.
If you need the drawer and it is still "occupied", then the Catholic Church now lets you cremate the body. I have attended several New Orleans funerals where I personally saw this and had it explained to me.
Yeah, well, unfortunately, this is the dark side of FR. I didnt even know such a side existed until about a year ago...
FReep much? Guess not.
Seriously, articles are posted every day and FReepers knee-jerk over them as if they were Gospel. Someone can post some obscure blog or some 4th rate internet “news” source and BOOM!
Haters gotta hate. As if it were true.
Even this story from Forbes denouncing those previous articles? I withhold judgment on this too. How do we know this is not a liberal spin to take the heat off the pro-abort results from decades ago. What may or may not have happened in Ireland is certainly ongoing here as we murder infants and the pre-born.
We may not bury them in septic tanks, be we dispose of them none the less.
And maybe that’s why Forbes is posting this. To take the heat off normal abortion tactics.
Plainly you want it to be a septic tank. Equally plainly, others don't.
Those of us who are interested in the truth of the matter, like myself, will never know for sure if we've got it, because we'll never fully trust our sources, because see above.
Searching for truth isn’t nearly so easy as grabbing onto a handy emotion and running with it like crazy.
It would be heartening to see a genuine apology or two.
My personal favorite is the articles based on news releases by attorneys who are filing a lawsuit. An especially enthusiastic response is observed when CPS or LEOs are involved.
I'm no fan at all of recent changes in LEO procedures, but an article based on an attorney's news release is not a factual story at all. It is a spun version of one side of the story.
After all, attorneys never shade the truth, do they?
Yeah, well, unfortunately, this is the dark side of FR. I didnt even know such a side existed until about a year ago...
Plenty of Freepers here are going straight to Hell when they die, not passing Go, not collecting $200.
Well, I don’t presume to know who is going to hell and who is not. None of my business. But I already sense the disappointment that this story may fall apart, lol.
You’re lucky you didn’t realize for so long.
I think “that side” should have been banned years ago and saved everyone a lot of grief.
It’s not what *I* want it to be and it’s not what *you* or any other Roman Catholic wants it to be, it is what it is and we’ll find out. Frontrunning the inevitable by renaming it into a crypt is a start, as far as attempting to mitigate embarrassment to your church. It’s at least plausible and not a slur upon the Irish as I’ve seen on every single one of these threads. Why, those Irish, they just roll naked dead bodies into any old crack or crevice, it’s what they do, those poor, ignorant, filthy people. /s
I was insulted on the original thread for questioning this and pointing out it’s propaganda-like properties.
And I am not pro-Catholic (nor anti-Catholic).
I do respectfully suggest that your blood libel comments are over the top and much too dramatic and defensive than needs be.
You are definitely right about the first verdict zeal. It was weird and bizarre.
Thank you for reiterating your desire, but it really wasn’t necessary.
Sad day when I clicked on a Catholic non-caucus thread. Phew! But education is important and I certainly was educated.
I’m not throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks, unlike those who so badly *want* this to go away. Calling it a “hoax” while simultaneously excusing it as a burial shaft or crypt is exactly that, trying to see what sticks. Covering his bases, isn’t he? The truth will out.
And you want it not to. I understand.
It's okay... As an American evangelical Protestent, I have no vested interest either way, and no axe to grind with regard to either Ireland or Catholicism.
I dislike deflection and lies, regardless of the source. I’ve been to Ireland many times, love the country and it’s people, having many friends there. In Dublin, Irish Catholic. They’re not sweeping this under the rug, trying to wish it away or deflect it. They’re dealing with it. There will be an inquiry and the truth will out. That is as it should be.
What I can't tell is, how does one tell the truth from the lies in this case? As I've said, I'm pretty distant from the situation.
To try for some exactitude here: the historically original, and horrible, "blood libel" was the lurid accusation that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover: usually, specifically, the blood of a Christian infant or child.
I've read that there were and are over 150 different kinds of blood libels, including that Jews, gypsies, or other socially disfavored groups poisoned wells, desecrated the Blessed Sacrament, cursed humans or livestock with sterility, conjured blood-drinking demons, caused miscarriages, brought on earthquakes, etc.
Thus the semantic field of the term "blood libel" has gotten bigger over the centuries, and, I would say, encompasses the charge of the negligent or malicious slaying of infants and their interment in a septic tank.
Not all Freepers are fully conditioned yet to understand the tricks, tactics and behavior used by the enemy.
But for those who are experienced we should not admonish inexperienced conservatives, we should however point out whenever we can the nature and possibility of the deception. Sometimes it is as easy as pointing to the source such the as the NY Times, MSNBC etc.
There will be a government inquiry, into this and other similar homes. That’s why the notion of “mass grave” is now being spiffed up and sanitized, it’s essentially for marketing and PR purposes.
Even the Forbes author did not explain the whole story. The average number of deaths over the period in question was 18-20 per year. That is about 1-2 per month, in depression and war years, in one of Europe’s poorest countries, in institutions where “TB was rife?” And that’s a scandal??? I would say the nuns did a pretty good job under very difficult conditions.
The so-called Septic Tank, when it existed, was also located on another part of the Tuam Mother’s home.
Finally, and also not mentioned - every baby in question had a certificate of death. They were registered and recorded with the Government authorities of the time. Does that sound like dead bodies being secretly and unceremoniously dumped?
I was also on that past thread when the "damning" accusations made by several posters were as if the nuns intentionally murdered 800 children and threw the 800 bodies in an unmistakeably documented dunghole, with malice aforethought, even though the historian noted that the actual purpose of the container has never been studied or established. That's not far from equivalent to blood libel, a term with 12th C. origins in Europe about justifying the persecution of Jews by claiming that Jews ritually murdered Christian children.
I also noted your calm and reasonable responses on that thread. Thanks for being one of the "wait and see" folks. The hysterical accusations of a hater leaping to conclusions not in evidence has already started on this thread.
...this statement of yours tells me that you've made up your mind on this point. In your mind it was either a septic tank and acknowledged as such, or it was a septic tank and they're lying to us about it, saying it was a mass grave.
I wish I could be so omniscient about things.
Well, I’m just following the lead of the FR faithful who just last week were saying it was impossible because nuns couldn’t lift the heavy concrete lid and the only other way in was via pipes from the home.
It's your call, of course, but I try not to let that happen to myself.
One Worlders, the UN, homosexualists, feminists and big-money Islam are the strange bedfellows who will promote any story that will destroy the freedom of individuals to resist domination by the state, JudeoChristianity and free markets being the top targets of their attacks. Muslims by the terms of their religion believe it is acceptable to lie to the infidel; therefore, to the extent that they can make Christians look bad, they imagine that lowering the boom of their worldwide caliphate and sharia law is just around the corner. Don't be a tool of their objectives.
It sounds like scenes of the Potato Famine years. I was in Belfast and Londonderry in 1982. It was scary. And my mother’s cousins outside Londonderry didn’t have electricity.
Wow, that’s bad. I was last in the Republic of Ireland in the late 1990s - it had vastly improved.
Ireland, in case people don’t know, is now one of the most virulently anti-Semitic countries in the entire EU. And it was once a harbor for Jews (well, Dublin). It is also disgustingly anti-American. I think this may have been a result of envy towards us, the rise of the Celtic Tiger and the fall of religion. Now that the Tiger has died, I don’t think they have anywhere to turn.
If you grew up in the Boston area when I did it was all on display.
I worked for a Large Utility in the area and was cursed out by a follower of one of my mothers cousins, He was a Pol, clan system, for being a very Right Wing Republican, got very nasty.
I pointed out to him that my mothers family were Scots Protestants until one of my clan got a stiff pee-pee and married a papist.
I’m not talking about Boston Irish-Americans. I’m talking about the Irish of Ireland.
Except in Boston the question is whom are you related to.
I don’t really understand your posts. What’s NYC have to do with it?
Yes, Ireland was/is a poor country and, yes, those in charge were probably doing the best they could, but it is hard to look at all the great wealth and power held by the Vatican and not wonder why more couldn't have been done to alleviate the misery and dire needs of those lives put in the care of this church. Like I have said repeatedly, this gives ALL Christian pro-lifers a black eye and it doesn't matter how long ago it happened. We shouldn't be seen as denying, covering up or transferring blame to avoid a rightful reckoning these innocent souls deserve.
And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. (Genesis 9:5)
If you haven’t noticed the similarities you have lived a very sheltered life,
How are the Irish “virulently anti-Semitic?”
And how are the attitudes of the Irish to American influence in the world worse than other European countries (e.g., France). What makes you say the are “disgustingly anti-American?”
In my exposure they run a close second in being pro-American, behind Australians. You’re always going to find sour leftists spouting canned down-with-Americanisms anywhere. The Irish people as a whole are not anti-American because they have so many distant kin here and they know it.
You do realize the Irish absolutely despise Americans calling themselves “Irish,” don’t you?
And I don’t think Irish-Americans are anything like the whacked-out Irish. Our citizens need to get over identifying with the Irish.
Oh, and they now blame us for their behavior during “The Troubles.” Just ‘cause Uncle Ted sent them a couple of bullets.
This is from ynet news - an Israeli news source; I hope the link works. It’s from 2011. Maybe they’ve shaped up since then, although I guess I can post more articles.