Riot police watch on as pro-Russians attack Ukraine protest (video included)

ITV ^ | Fri 9 May 2014 | James Mates

[FreeReign]

The divisions tearing apart eastern Ukraine were displayed in the city of Donetsk this evening - when a protest turned violent. Pro-Russian gangs attacked marching Ukrainians - and the Ukrainian police did little, at first, to stop it.

[GeronL]

Bump

[hubel458]

quote-’’Civil war with an outside power taking the territory? That is foreign aggression’’

Amen- That in no ways equates to civil war, but is like hitler and Chechoslavakia....Ed

[FreeReign]

Folks, I want to present the common people of the Ukraine to you. Take a good look for they are us. They love their nation as we do our own. They do not wish to have outside meddling. They do not wish to see their homeland carved up by a maniacal strong man. They want to be left alone as a nation to congregate and celebrate their rich heritage. And yes, that heritage does include commonality with Russia. In real terms though, that was then and this is now. For them, it is so been there done that. They are the citizens of the Ukraine as we are citizens of the U.S.

If I cannot stand up for these people, I cannot stand up for my own people, and not be a hypocrite. I either believe in self determination for the common man or I don’t. Well, I do.

D1, well said.

[Cen-Tejas]

Sir, with all due respect,watching these punks with cheap billy clubs attack people one on one while hundreds of Ukraine riot police stand idly by just watching and “the people” themselves not fighting back causes a lot of us to wonder whether or not these people have any grasp whatsoever of what freedom means. Indeed, maybe they simply deserve a Putin style dictator.

The first thing Freedom means is that it doesn’t just happen. Your people don’t seem to be prepared to make the sacrifices of blood and funerals it’s going to take to throw off these Russian/Putin led thugs.

In 1836, here in Texas, the Putin of that era marched into Texas with 5,000 of his thugs and ran into 180 guys at the Alamo that knew what Freedom meant and were prepared to FIGHT and die for it and DID! Simple as that! No You Tubes, press releases or ANYTHING. Just one hell of a fight!

In Bunkerville, Nevada a few weeks ago, a few hundred cowboys stood up to men with guns and we all know what happened there.

At San Jacinto, 1,500 odd Texans destroyed Putin’s (Santa Ana’s) Army.

These are just a few examples but they collectively raise this question relative to this Ukraine brewing war issue.......”will the Ukraine people fight like Americans historically do when pushed around?” Those videos say no, they run.

So, my respectful suggestion to your people is let’s see some video of your countrymen fighting back in situations like this. Then maybe more Americans would be willing to support them. We’re always “all in” for the fighter against oppression and have proven that beyond any doubt. It’s our weakness! We can’t stay out of other peoples wars!

I will leave you with a quote from one of America’s most fearsome generals “War means fightin and fightin means killin”!

[DoughtyOne]

LMAO, you don’t think our government is corrupt.

Okay, one of us doesn’t.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you.

[DoughtyOne]

Hube1458, I’m not totally sure how to take that, so I don’t know how to reply. Not trying to give you a hard time.

[DoughtyOne]

Sir, with all due respect,watching these punks with cheap billy clubs attack people one on one while hundreds of Ukraine riot police stand idly by just watching and “the people” themselves not fighting back causes a lot of us to wonder whether or not these people have any grasp whatsoever of what freedom means. Indeed, maybe they simply deserve a Putin style dictator.

Right now Russia has tens of thousands of fully active combat troops on the border with the Ukraine.  There are tanks, and a whole rich store of weapons at the Russian's disposal.  How long do you think it would take Russia to react if the Ukraine government or civilians inside the Ukraine were to take those hoodlems down?  You should be able to understand this.  Then to ignore it, and say maybe they deserve a Putin style dictator?  Come one, you can do better than that.

The first thing Freedom means is that it doesn’t just happen. Your people don’t seem to be prepared to make the sacrifices of blood and funerals it’s going to take to throw off these Russian/Putin led thugs.

Okay, then it's your take that normal civilian Ukrainians should be able to win a war with the fully combat trained and prepared Russian military.  Your emapthy and understanding leaves a little to be desired there.

In 1836, here in Texas, the Putin of that era marched into Texas with 5,000 of his thugs and ran into 180 guys at the Alamo that knew what Freedom meant and were prepared to FIGHT and die for it and DID! Simple as that! No You Tubes, press releases or ANYTHING. Just one hell of a fight!

All over the Easter Ukraine are areas that are hundreds if not over a thousand years old.  If the Ukrainians take on the Russians, the Russians will roll in brutally and exterminate at will.  As they do it, the areas will be shelled out like Lebanon, Kosovo, and other places we've seen destroyed.

Once these history rich sites are destroyed, there's no replacing them.  They're gone.

In Bunkerville, Nevada a few weeks ago, a few hundred cowboys stood up to men with guns and we all know what happened there.

At San Jacinto, 1,500 odd Texans destroyed Putin’s (Santa Ana’s) Army.

These are just a few examples but they collectively raise this question relative to this Ukraine brewing war issue.......”will the Ukraine people fight like Americans historically do when pushed around?” Those videos say no, they run.

So, my respectful suggestion to your people is let’s see some video of your countrymen fighting back in situations like this. Then maybe more Americans would be willing to support them. We’re always “all in” for the fighter against oppression and have proven that beyond any doubt. It’s our weakness! We can’t stay out of other peoples wars!

I will leave you with a quote from one of America’s most fearsome generals “War means fightin and fightin means killin”!

You are a fool.

[hubel458]

I meant with the post that you are right.

It isn’t cicil war it is foreign aggression.

And I used hoped for future events here as an example..Ed

[DoughtyOne]

Ed, thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the note of agreement and apologize for not picking up on it in your original post.

Take care.

[hubel458]

quote-War means fightin and fightin means killin..

A big group of them that were attacked and couple got
shot, reacted in Osessa and drove the terrorists off
and holed them in a building where a fire killed
a bunch of terrorists...

Thing of it is, eastern Ukraine supporters are practically
disarmed compared to terrorists, because they were way
behind the planning curve. Putins green men came in,and
helped loot the armories in the east, and passed out all the
goodies to their people, including heavy weapons.
And in doing this had the help of the police, which
were largely taken over by russian symphathisers,
something that had beem planned and worked out over
a long time. And Yannukovych and others under russian
influence made the army about 5% strength.
just like putbama is doing to us here.While building
up his little green men to subjugate us.I equate the
beltway and putbama with putin and russis ...
and us out here on the land with Ukraine..Ed

[Paul R.]

Now, imagine the DC government has fallen in a violent coup, the rest of the country is as bad as “Detroit”, and one of the first proclamations of the new government is that they intend to wipe out the culture and language of “White People”, for example.

Oh, give us a break from the Putin / RT propaganda. The proposition was to make Ukrainian the unified / official language of Gov't business in Ukraine. It did not bar anyone from speaking / using Russian in personal and other matters any more than the official language of the US being English bars me from using Korean or Tagalog or Klingon in any other affair I see as appropriate. As some in the Ukraine gov't realized the language proposal would be divisive, wiser heads prevailed and the proposal was canned -- by those very same people who you claim would "wipe out" Russian language and culture in Ukraine.

Now as for the corruption, I agree, in a sense. Most Ukrainians realize that dominance by Russia means that the corruption will go on "forever", while steps toward entering the EU would force the end of at least the worst of it.

Would entering the EU be a good choice? It depends.

An "Estonia" course would work quite well. A "Greece" course would be lousy, though still better than a Russian dominated course.

Since the most likely outcome would be "something in-between", then the EU course might not be "good", it's simply the lesser evil.

[Paul R.]

I understand what you are saying, but I think a lot of the people in this video were trying to demonstrate that they are NOT violent, pro-Nazi thugs, as the pro-Russians from Moscow to FR seem to claim of any Ukrainian who wants to see their country free and whole. And, those attacked probably thought that with all those riot police alongside, they were safe. The police vanished (were probably paid to do so) and the unarmed marchers had no way to defend themselves. In the city of Donetsk, they were probably badly outnumbered too. A fight is one thing. A slaughter of those with nothing to fight with is something else.

In Odessa, the Ukrainians had numbers but (initially) no real arms. Later in the fight, I think some Right Sector types with arms may have arrived in support — in any event that one turned out much differently, and hopefully, for the country as a whole.

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/maydan/updatemay5.html

[docbnj]

Good summary.

There is no doubt that the events are being manipulated by Putin and his allies.

As one Russian professor said (just before being fired for his statement), Russia and Ukraine should be the best of friends. There is no reason for all this disturbance, and it does Russia no good to try to swallow up sections of Ukraine, when every mutual advantage can be had by friendly relationships.

Unfortunately, this is not Putin’s way of thinking.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Root for neither side.

Why not do that?

[GeronL]

Putin marching through the streets of Crimea to observe his territorial acquisition tells me this is not a civil war

[Cen-Tejas]

Sir, I was reading your post with great interest and planning on responding in kind until I got down to the last line where you engaged in name calling. Accordingly, I will not respond because your post does not deserve that respect.

I have a rule you might reflect on. It is to never call someone a name on an Internet Forum. Doing so from an anonymous keyboard somewhere in the world is, to put it mildy, easy to do.

[Cen-Tejas]

Thanks for responding to my post. I appreciate your thoughtful points.

My over-arching point is that the Ukrainian People have a choice like so many “peoples of the world” have had in their history, including America and the Republic of Texas.

They can either fight back or be ruled by the dictator Putin. It’s really that simple.

That the Ukraines have been dis-served by some of their own leaders and tricked by Putin is no doubt a fact. But, it doesn’t change the fact that a vicious force is coming at them from the East and as far as I can see they have no choice but to fight back or comply obediently

If anyone can think of any other option for the Ukraines I’m sure they would love to hear it. So would I.

[demshateGod]

That’s been my position this whole time.

[free_life]

A true picture of Ukrainians and Russians. Ukrainians marching peacefully in support of their nation and the Russians attack them as the thugs they are.

Free election/referendum, bull! A Russian farce.

While I support the Ukrainian military rounding up every Russian thug and detaining them till order is established in the Ukrainian, that is just the excuse Putin is looking for to mount a full scale invasion of the Ukraine.

The Ukraine military wouldn’t last a week, but then the guerrilla warfare would begin and the invaders would pay a heavy price.