Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Riot police watch on as pro-Russians attack Ukraine protest (video included)
ITV ^ | Fri 9 May 2014 | James Mates

Posted on 05/09/2014 2:47:14 PM PDT by FreeReign

The divisions tearing apart eastern Ukraine were displayed in the city of Donetsk this evening - when a protest turned violent. Pro-Russian gangs attacked marching Ukrainians - and the Ukrainian police did little, at first, to stop it.

(Excerpt) Read more at itv.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: ukraine
In Donetsk, pro Ukrainians march, pro Russian thugs attack marchers, and police do nothing.
1 posted on 05/09/2014 2:47:14 PM PDT by FreeReign
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

There has always been a strong criminal element in Ukraine that extended up to and including the president that recently bailed out. Russia is funding and supporting the terrorist actions in an attempt to regain their control.


2 posted on 05/09/2014 2:55:43 PM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: meatloaf

I don’t know how anyone can still be rooting for Putin and the separatists. It’s pretty clear what’s happening there.


3 posted on 05/09/2014 3:03:11 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

It is a civil war now, no matter how vehemently some try to deny it.


4 posted on 05/09/2014 3:06:29 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
It is a civil war now, no matter how vehemently some try to deny it.

No comment from you (or RT) about the Russian thugs attacking peaceful pro Ukrainians all across Donetsk.

5 posted on 05/09/2014 3:19:24 PM PDT by FreeReign
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

Riot police WATCH ON as Pro-Russian...

translated by babblefish?


6 posted on 05/09/2014 3:30:05 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

“It is a civil war now, no matter how vehemently some try to deny it.”
“No comment from you (or RT) about the Russian thugs attacking peaceful pro Ukrainians all across Donetsk.”

Didn’t I just comment above??
Despite what you have been saying, I have inly been posting videos and pics of the action, and what Russian officials are saying.

If you perceive that as “propaganda”, then it’s obviously YOU with the problem, not me.

PS- As I have requested MANY TIMES, if there is an English-language source that you approve of, covering this issue in more timely manner than RT, I’ll be more than happy to review it. MSNBC perhaps?

OH WAIT. YOU CAN’T...


7 posted on 05/09/2014 3:32:07 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
It is a civil war now, no matter how vehemently some try to deny it.

A civil war implies that there are two equal sides fighting it out. None of the polls conducted by Pew or other organizations show any popular support for separatism or annexation. The overwhelming majority of citizens even in the East and South is that of Ukrainian unity. What we see here is a minority of the poor and criminal element being propped up and organized by Russian GRU. This is not a civil war, therefore, but Russian destabilization of Ukraine.

8 posted on 05/09/2014 3:47:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

“A civil war implies that there are two equal sides fighting it out.”

Since when in human history has that ever happened??

PS- Polls don’t do the fighting and the dying, do they?


9 posted on 05/09/2014 3:52:01 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
PS- Polls don’t do the fighting and the dying, do they?

They certainly do help us gauge popular opinion, which, in this case, shows that Ukrainians are not interested in your civil war, though the Russians certainly want us to think in these terms so they can justify sending a "peace keeping" invasion force.

10 posted on 05/09/2014 3:55:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Here’s another non-Russian government report for you.


11 posted on 05/09/2014 4:15:31 PM PDT by MeganC (Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

We have discussions here regarding the merits of Russia’s intervention inside the Ukraine. Much is made of the mindset of the Russian speaking populace. Much is made of the supposed corrupted criminal element in the government of the Ukraine. Sadly lacking is the man on the street angle here.

Imagine people making the case for military action against our nation, the corrupted element within our government. Could such a case be made? Why of course, we make it all the time.

Right now I sit in a pub restaurant in Santa Fe Springs, California. Around me sit the average Joes and Jill’s. Couples, small gatherings of people congregate. Business is discussed, birthdays are celebrated, young people share moments of love. These and others are moments shared by the common people the world over.

Folks, I want to present the common people of the Ukraine to you. Take a good look for they are us. They love their nation as we do our own. They do not wish to have outside meddling. They do not wish to see their homeland carved up by a maniacal strong man. They want to be left alone as a nation to congregate and celebrate their rich heritage. And yes, that heritage does include commonality with Russia. In real terms though, that was then and this is now. For them, it is so been there done that. They are the citizens of the Ukraine as we are citizens of the U.S.

If I cannot stand up for these people, I cannot stand up for my own people, and not be a hypocrite. I either believe in self determination for the common man or I don’t. Well, I do.

I communicate with a number of people in the Ukraine. I talk to them about family life. I am interested in how other people live. What do they enjoy? What do they do for fun?

Listening to what they have to say, I find it remarkable the similarities between us

One individual explained that they celebrated May Day in a park beside a river eating BBQ and more traditional foods. BBQ? That threw me for a loop. And then another person told me the same thing. Folks, the heart and sole of these people is our heart and soul.

I ask you to re-evaluate your perceptions. On Sunday a special election will take place, and the fate of the nation these people live will be decided. Please know the groundwork to steal half of the Ukraine has been laid.

Please do not embarrass freedom loving people with moronic statements to the effect the Ukrainian people have spoken.

While it us true that they have, the truth of it us that they spoke their minds in private, and to a single person, they are us. They love their nation, all of it.

I declare my solidarity with the people of the Ukraine. Long may their flag fly over the whole nation they love.

None of these people hate Russia. They simply love their homeland more.

I join them in that with no qualifications whatsoever.

Care to join me?


12 posted on 05/09/2014 4:52:53 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

Coming soon to a nation near you. :)


13 posted on 05/09/2014 5:15:20 PM PDT by Tzimisce
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

If the explanation was as simple as you represent, I might agree. But it isn’t.

The larger geo-political issues aside, the whole country has been like a larger, even more corrupt version of Detroit for almost two decades. The Mafia/government connections are well documented, all the way down to local officials.

Now, imagine the DC government has fallen in a violent coup, the rest of the country is as bad as “Detroit”, and one of the first proclamations of the new government is that they intend to wipe out the culture and language of “White People”, for example.

Across the river from Detroit is Canada, a much more prosperous country, with a brighter economic future than yours, were “White Culture” is celebrated and secure.

Some will decide that joining Canada is the future.
Some will decide that independence from DC is the answer.
Some will decide that they should fight to take back the government in DC is the answer.
Some will defend the status quo, for a myriad of reasons.

There are no simple answers here.


14 posted on 05/09/2014 5:19:32 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

When does Canada invade, in your scenario?


15 posted on 05/09/2014 5:23:35 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

‘’When does Canada invade, in your scenario,,]]

ER, when does putler invade...

ER, when does putlers asia group invade, as a so-called
peace keeping force.

when do so-called down and out, peaceful protesters
go home instead of putting up roadblocks and shooting
up a car killing parents and wounding 10 yr old...

when do so-called down and out, peaceful protesters
go home, instead of terrorising a schoolmarm because
she told them they couldn’t hold their referendum
in her school....

And when do so-called down and out, peaceful protesters
go home instead of making east half of country worse than
DET/CHI/DC.

Ukraine is one of the few places on earth that is worth
stopping the crapping on, by putinistas with ‘’guns’’ or

...tablets...Ed


16 posted on 05/09/2014 5:47:23 PM PDT by hubel458
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

quote—’’action against our nation, the corrupted element within our government. Could such a case be made? Why of course, we make it all the time.’’

And if our congress had the same balls as Ukraines
parliament, and listened, and voted Ocrook and crooked
administration out, we’d expect him to leave, not be
put upon by some outsider who got mad at us for
giving him the boot.Ed


17 posted on 05/09/2014 5:56:05 PM PDT by hubel458
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

I wonder what special forces Russia has infiltrating that city


18 posted on 05/09/2014 6:14:27 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign; data

Bump


19 posted on 05/09/2014 6:15:01 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Civil war with an outside power taking the territory? That is foreign aggression


20 posted on 05/09/2014 6:15:47 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DTA

Bump


21 posted on 05/09/2014 6:16:25 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

quote-’’Civil war with an outside power taking the territory? That is foreign aggression’’

Amen- That in no ways equates to civil war, but is like hitler and Chechoslavakia....Ed


22 posted on 05/09/2014 6:39:31 PM PDT by hubel458
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Folks, I want to present the common people of the Ukraine to you. Take a good look for they are us. They love their nation as we do our own. They do not wish to have outside meddling. They do not wish to see their homeland carved up by a maniacal strong man. They want to be left alone as a nation to congregate and celebrate their rich heritage. And yes, that heritage does include commonality with Russia. In real terms though, that was then and this is now. For them, it is so been there done that. They are the citizens of the Ukraine as we are citizens of the U.S.

If I cannot stand up for these people, I cannot stand up for my own people, and not be a hypocrite. I either believe in self determination for the common man or I don’t. Well, I do.

D1, well said.

23 posted on 05/09/2014 6:45:30 PM PDT by FreeReign
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

Sir, with all due respect,watching these punks with cheap billy clubs attack people one on one while hundreds of Ukraine riot police stand idly by just watching and “the people” themselves not fighting back causes a lot of us to wonder whether or not these people have any grasp whatsoever of what freedom means. Indeed, maybe they simply deserve a Putin style dictator.

The first thing Freedom means is that it doesn’t just happen. Your people don’t seem to be prepared to make the sacrifices of blood and funerals it’s going to take to throw off these Russian/Putin led thugs.

In 1836, here in Texas, the Putin of that era marched into Texas with 5,000 of his thugs and ran into 180 guys at the Alamo that knew what Freedom meant and were prepared to FIGHT and die for it and DID! Simple as that! No You Tubes, press releases or ANYTHING. Just one hell of a fight!

In Bunkerville, Nevada a few weeks ago, a few hundred cowboys stood up to men with guns and we all know what happened there.

At San Jacinto, 1,500 odd Texans destroyed Putin’s (Santa Ana’s) Army.

These are just a few examples but they collectively raise this question relative to this Ukraine brewing war issue.......”will the Ukraine people fight like Americans historically do when pushed around?” Those videos say no, they run.

So, my respectful suggestion to your people is let’s see some video of your countrymen fighting back in situations like this. Then maybe more Americans would be willing to support them. We’re always “all in” for the fighter against oppression and have proven that beyond any doubt. It’s our weakness! We can’t stay out of other peoples wars!

I will leave you with a quote from one of America’s most fearsome generals “War means fightin and fightin means killin”!


24 posted on 05/09/2014 8:38:09 PM PDT by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

LMAO, you don’t think our government is corrupt.

Okay, one of us doesn’t.


25 posted on 05/09/2014 8:57:30 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

Thank you.


26 posted on 05/09/2014 8:58:40 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: hubel458

Hube1458, I’m not totally sure how to take that, so I don’t know how to reply. Not trying to give you a hard time.


27 posted on 05/09/2014 8:59:38 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Cen-Tejas
Sir, with all due respect,watching these punks with cheap billy clubs attack people one on one while hundreds of Ukraine riot police stand idly by just watching and “the people” themselves not fighting back causes a lot of us to wonder whether or not these people have any grasp whatsoever of what freedom means. Indeed, maybe they simply deserve a Putin style dictator.

Right now Russia has tens of thousands of fully active combat troops on the border with the Ukraine.  There are tanks, and a whole rich store of weapons at the Russian's disposal.  How long do you think it would take Russia to react if the Ukraine government or civilians inside the Ukraine were to take those hoodlems down?  You should be able to understand this.  Then to ignore it, and say maybe they deserve a Putin style dictator?  Come one, you can do better than that.

The first thing Freedom means is that it doesn’t just happen. Your people don’t seem to be prepared to make the sacrifices of blood and funerals it’s going to take to throw off these Russian/Putin led thugs.

Okay, then it's your take that normal civilian Ukrainians should be able to win a war with the fully combat trained and prepared Russian military.  Your emapthy and understanding leaves a little to be desired there.

In 1836, here in Texas, the Putin of that era marched into Texas with 5,000 of his thugs and ran into 180 guys at the Alamo that knew what Freedom meant and were prepared to FIGHT and die for it and DID! Simple as that! No You Tubes, press releases or ANYTHING. Just one hell of a fight!

All over the Easter Ukraine are areas that are hundreds if not over a thousand years old.  If the Ukrainians take on the Russians, the Russians will roll in brutally and exterminate at will.  As they do it, the areas will be shelled out like Lebanon, Kosovo, and other places we've seen destroyed.

Once these history rich sites are destroyed, there's no replacing them.  They're gone.

In Bunkerville, Nevada a few weeks ago, a few hundred cowboys stood up to men with guns and we all know what happened there.

At San Jacinto, 1,500 odd Texans destroyed Putin’s (Santa Ana’s) Army.

These are just a few examples but they collectively raise this question relative to this Ukraine brewing war issue.......”will the Ukraine people fight like Americans historically do when pushed around?” Those videos say no, they run.

So, my respectful suggestion to your people is let’s see some video of your countrymen fighting back in situations like this. Then maybe more Americans would be willing to support them. We’re always “all in” for the fighter against oppression and have proven that beyond any doubt. It’s our weakness! We can’t stay out of other peoples wars!

I will leave you with a quote from one of America’s most fearsome generals “War means fightin and fightin means killin”!


You are a fool.

28 posted on 05/09/2014 9:12:06 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

I meant with the post that you are right.

It isn’t cicil war it is foreign aggression.

And I used hoped for future events here as an example..Ed


29 posted on 05/09/2014 10:03:42 PM PDT by hubel458
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: hubel458

Ed, thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the note of agreement and apologize for not picking up on it in your original post.

Take care.


30 posted on 05/09/2014 10:21:51 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cen-Tejas

quote-War means fightin and fightin means killin..

A big group of them that were attacked and couple got
shot, reacted in Osessa and drove the terrorists off
and holed them in a building where a fire killed
a bunch of terrorists...

Thing of it is, eastern Ukraine supporters are practically
disarmed compared to terrorists, because they were way
behind the planning curve. Putins green men came in,and
helped loot the armories in the east, and passed out all the
goodies to their people, including heavy weapons.
And in doing this had the help of the police, which
were largely taken over by russian symphathisers,
something that had beem planned and worked out over
a long time. And Yannukovych and others under russian
influence made the army about 5% strength.
just like putbama is doing to us here.While building
up his little green men to subjugate us.I equate the
beltway and putbama with putin and russis ...
and us out here on the land with Ukraine..Ed


31 posted on 05/09/2014 10:32:06 PM PDT by hubel458
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
Now, imagine the DC government has fallen in a violent coup, the rest of the country is as bad as “Detroit”, and one of the first proclamations of the new government is that they intend to wipe out the culture and language of “White People”, for example.

Oh, give us a break from the Putin / RT propaganda. The proposition was to make Ukrainian the unified / official language of Gov't business in Ukraine. It did not bar anyone from speaking / using Russian in personal and other matters any more than the official language of the US being English bars me from using Korean or Tagalog or Klingon in any other affair I see as appropriate. As some in the Ukraine gov't realized the language proposal would be divisive, wiser heads prevailed and the proposal was canned -- by those very same people who you claim would "wipe out" Russian language and culture in Ukraine.

Now as for the corruption, I agree, in a sense. Most Ukrainians realize that dominance by Russia means that the corruption will go on "forever", while steps toward entering the EU would force the end of at least the worst of it.

Would entering the EU be a good choice? It depends.

An "Estonia" course would work quite well. A "Greece" course would be lousy, though still better than a Russian dominated course.

Since the most likely outcome would be "something in-between", then the EU course might not be "good", it's simply the lesser evil.

32 posted on 05/10/2014 2:42:02 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cen-Tejas

I understand what you are saying, but I think a lot of the people in this video were trying to demonstrate that they are NOT violent, pro-Nazi thugs, as the pro-Russians from Moscow to FR seem to claim of any Ukrainian who wants to see their country free and whole. And, those attacked probably thought that with all those riot police alongside, they were safe. The police vanished (were probably paid to do so) and the unarmed marchers had no way to defend themselves. In the city of Donetsk, they were probably badly outnumbered too. A fight is one thing. A slaughter of those with nothing to fight with is something else.

In Odessa, the Ukrainians had numbers but (initially) no real arms. Later in the fight, I think some Right Sector types with arms may have arrived in support — in any event that one turned out much differently, and hopefully, for the country as a whole.

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/maydan/updatemay5.html


33 posted on 05/10/2014 3:05:05 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

Good summary.

There is no doubt that the events are being manipulated by Putin and his allies.

As one Russian professor said (just before being fired for his statement), Russia and Ukraine should be the best of friends. There is no reason for all this disturbance, and it does Russia no good to try to swallow up sections of Ukraine, when every mutual advantage can be had by friendly relationships.

Unfortunately, this is not Putin’s way of thinking.


34 posted on 05/10/2014 5:55:17 AM PDT by docbnj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: demshateGod

Root for neither side.

Why not do that?


35 posted on 05/10/2014 2:39:29 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Putin marching through the streets of Crimea to observe his territorial acquisition tells me this is not a civil war


36 posted on 05/10/2014 3:05:20 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

Sir, I was reading your post with great interest and planning on responding in kind until I got down to the last line where you engaged in name calling. Accordingly, I will not respond because your post does not deserve that respect.

I have a rule you might reflect on. It is to never call someone a name on an Internet Forum. Doing so from an anonymous keyboard somewhere in the world is, to put it mildy, easy to do.


37 posted on 05/10/2014 4:18:32 PM PDT by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: hubel458

Thanks for responding to my post. I appreciate your thoughtful points.

My over-arching point is that the Ukrainian People have a choice like so many “peoples of the world” have had in their history, including America and the Republic of Texas.

They can either fight back or be ruled by the dictator Putin. It’s really that simple.

That the Ukraines have been dis-served by some of their own leaders and tricked by Putin is no doubt a fact. But, it doesn’t change the fact that a vicious force is coming at them from the East and as far as I can see they have no choice but to fight back or comply obediently

If anyone can think of any other option for the Ukraines I’m sure they would love to hear it. So would I.


38 posted on 05/10/2014 4:27:35 PM PDT by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Laissez-faire capitalist

That’s been my position this whole time.


39 posted on 05/10/2014 5:49:34 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: FreeReign

A true picture of Ukrainians and Russians. Ukrainians marching peacefully in support of their nation and the Russians attack them as the thugs they are.

Free election/referendum, bull! A Russian farce.

While I support the Ukrainian military rounding up every Russian thug and detaining them till order is established in the Ukrainian, that is just the excuse Putin is looking for to mount a full scale invasion of the Ukraine.

The Ukraine military wouldn’t last a week, but then the guerrilla warfare would begin and the invaders would pay a heavy price.


40 posted on 05/11/2014 6:46:02 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cen-Tejas

Any guy that gets on the internet and moans about people being this or that for not committing suicide by open land war, deserves whatever they get.

If you wish to try to turn this back on me, no problem. Your comments are out there for everyone to read.


41 posted on 05/12/2014 6:27:15 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

........guess you didn’t “get it” the first time. So, here it is again, in slightly modified form, “if you want your comments to be taken seriously, don’t engage in calling your fellow freepers names”. Most of us have been out of junior high a long time.

And, In your case, you started in with the name calling “right out of the chute”.


42 posted on 05/12/2014 9:04:40 AM PDT by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Cen-Tejas

And you started blaming others for not confronting some of the best armed troops in the world without much of anything.

So which is worse, damning folks for not committing suicide, or calling someone a fool for having done so.

Don’t hurry with your response. It’s a real tough call. /s


43 posted on 05/12/2014 9:12:54 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson