Skip to comments.Fort Hood shooter snapped over denial of request for leave, Army confirms
Posted on 04/07/2014 1:53:44 PM PDT by servo1969Edited on 04/07/2014 1:54:53 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The spree began in one building of the sprawling complex, where Lopez, who was 34, first pulled his .45-caliber Caliber Smith & Wesson handgun and killed one, injuring 10.
"The deceased and one of wounded had been involved in the verbal altercation with subject," Grey said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
The headline says they know why, the story says otherwise
After the first couple of bangs, a truely free citizen would have been returning fire, but being denied self-protection, yet another gun-free zone is a shooting gallery for madmen.
You are right. There really is nothing in the story that supports the headline.
This jerk killed his NCO chain of command because they wouldn’t approve a leave.
There’s a reason the guy was only a specialist (E-4). He had 11 years in the National Guard and 5 years active duty and he was only a specialist.
We’re NOT being told something.
Just about the only way to accomplish that is by being a colossal screw-up!
Too bad his concern was not about Gov’t spending in excess of revenue.
I was a UAV DET CO, and I had a SPC that I needed to promote in the 33W slot. He damn near cried and did NOT want to be promoted. He had been a E-4 for ten years and loved it there. Shrug. Glad I was 19-series until OCS.
Fort Hood shooter Ivan Lopez's rampage followed an argument over the denial of his request for leave and did not appear to be due to some ongoing mental problem, an Army official said Monday.
The word came as officials announced findings of their ongoing investigation, which included interviews with more than 1,100 people and a recreation of the shooting last Wednesday, which left four dead including Lopez, and 16 injured.
We only have one suspect, said Chris Grey, spokesman for the Armys Criminal Investigation Command. We have found no evidence that this man belonged to a terrorist organization.
Grey, who was flanked by other law enforcement officials, did not take questions at the brief Monday news conference, and said he would not divulge any information that could jeopardize the investigation.
Killed were Army Sgt. Timothy Owens, Staff Sgt. Carlos Lazaney Rodriguez, 38, of Aguadilla, Puerto Rico and Sgt. 1st Class Daniel Ferguson, 39, of Florida.
No mention of his politics. Usually they would have this guy pegged as a pro-second amend, tea party type.
Even when its a lefty like the IRS plane crash guy or Arizona shooter, they try to make him seem tea party-ish
Says to me that your troop had problems.
Or dumb as a bag of hair. I saw a guy on AFV trying to put on his Navy jumper and the guy had 6 service stripes representing 24 years of service (not gold either which would represent 12 years of good conduct) and he only made it to E-5.
Dumb as a box of rocks (or hair) fits my definition of colossal screw up. :>)
On the other hand, promotion can be slow in the Guard if the unit doesn't have a slot to promote into.
They sure aren't revealing much here.
Could it be that this guy really liked him job/his MOS and didn’t want to switch to another job? Perhaps he didn’t want to become a buck sergeant which probably meant going to the A and B NOC schools. Perhaps he knew he was not cut out for or did not want to be a leader and had satisfied himself with his pay level. What kind of GT score did he have -if it is still called GT? Otherwise, was he a “good” soldier?
What is a 19-series?
He brought it because he assumed he was going to be denied. He wanted them to give him the excuse he was looking for. He got it.
I agree, they’re not saying anything about former problems and I’ve a hunch they’re there on his record.
If true he flipped over being denied leave there’s more than a few problems.
Best guess is a lone wolf closet moslem from here.
Were NOT being told something.
I've been thinking this right along, too. Add in the no-known combat injury that could relate to his claimed TBI/PTSD and it just doesn't add up.
I would have had this guy pegged for another Timothy McVeigh type. Now, McVeigh was never identified as being an agent for Islamic jihadist assault, but considering how fast it was all hustled through and hushed up, including the quick execution, maybe the Federal government was trying to keep a genie in the bottle back then.
Now, there is nothing to connect this latest assault with another Islamic jihadist terror plot, but there is also a lot going on that is purposely kept isolated from those of us who are compulsive dot-connectors.
It ain’t paranoia if they really ARE picking on you.
We still have a bunch of unknowns on “Why the leave was disapproved.” Could be no leave accrued, in a minus leave status, an operational mission planned or major training exercise tat was the same time as when he wanted leave.
Is it still in effect that only the CO can approve/disapprove leave requests? That was the requirement when I was in during the 70s, 80s, & 90s.
Agenda, man... Always the agenda, above all else.
If it doesn’t advance their cause, it gets pushed aside or buried.
That’s a fair possibility and if true the Army will do their best to debunk it.
I still say the dirtbag wanted a free ride disability out and then decided on revenge when he knew he was not getting what he wanted.
More to it than denial of leave, IMO. We may find out he was also recently denied consideration for promotion. Living off base with a wife and young daughter on an E-4 salary would be a challenge for any man.
“Lopez, his wife and their young child moved to the Killeen area, where Fort Hood is located, in February. Prior to the move, the family lived at another Texas military base, authorities said. The Quail Circle apartment Lopez lived in is approximately two miles from the military post”
He was denied leave last Fall when his mother died. He had to beg for it. They gave him 24 hours. Then they changed it to 48 hours. Then I bet they did not approve paying for his travels due to sequestration. There is more to his snapping. But it will trickle out, I am sure. And I am speculating about the paying for travel part.
I doubt he volunteered for that. If his unit was slotted to go, then he was going.
That Puerto Rican replaced my unit in Egypt.
However, It was a peace keeping mission and was not hard. We were allowed to drink on base and had multiple bars to drink at.
There are two facts that tell me a lot about the shooter.
1st fact: Having issues with leave.
- The Army is all about family when stateside. The fact that he had so much trouble with leave tells me his chain of command did not like him at all. Those reasons are unclear, but from experience, when a soldier has those kind of issues with leave is because he is a dirtbag soldier.
2nd fact: Being a Specialist so long.
- He was in the Infantry. Even if you are a dirtbag, eventually you are going to be promoted. You are going to get enough points over time, and when you are next on the list, they cannot pass you up unless you deny the promotion or have unfavorable action. The only issue he would of had that wouldn’t be his fault is any interstate transfer or him going active. He would have had to wait a year to be on the the promotion list.
Those two things are all I need to know about the guy. He was a POS soldier. Any Army veteran who has been in more than 3-4 years could tell you the same thing.
From what i have read/heard about similar things, there is no such thing, really, as an isolated “snap.” It is a protracted collection of events that leads to this sort of thing, if that is in fact what happened here.
“Work related violence” again?
I guess the only answer is to reduce the size of the military even more to reduce the possibility of more attacks.
So go to the social media...
Fort Hood gunman vented on Facebook about Sandy Hook shooter, Iraq (CNN ^ | updated 7:53 PM EDT, Sat April 5, 2014 | By Ray Sanchez, CNN)
I didn’t know about the earlier leave denial when his mother died. Fits a scenario of one rejection being piled on another. Starts to form a pattern that pushed him over the edge.
Much has changed since I took off the uniform, but I remain in touch through friends, family, and work associations.
Ordinary leave is generally granted if requested on a timely basis, does not impinge on the unit mission, and the soldier requesting it has sufficient days accrued. During the Cold War that meant that only so many of a unit were allowed to be on leave at any given time and that leaves were restricted during certain key training or deployment events. Some junior NCO’s tried to use leave as a reward, but if a soldier pushed it through the chain of command, that usually didn’t fly.
Things are a little different now. With the current training and deployment cycles, much of the ordinary leave program is tied to block leaves. The whole unit goes on leave together tied to their spot in the cycle. Exceptions are granted, but not often. These block leave dates are well known in advance and soldiers can plan vacations, visits to family, and personal business.
Emergency leave is the big exception, and while not required, a Red Cross message usually greases the skids. I cannot recall ever denying an emergency leave backed by a Red Cross message, even in combat.
I suspect that Lopez was requesting leave out of cycle, he may not have had leave accrued, and since he was newly assigned he may have had more of his share compared to others in the unit and probably had taken leave in conjunction with his PCS (Permanent Change of Station) from Ft. Bliss. Sounds like his platoon sergeant said no, and rather than going up the chain, he went postal. As a seasoned soldier, he would have known that the platoon sergeant did not have the final say.
This guy was trouble spelled with a capital T and he slipped through the cracks. An unfortunate characteristic of an Army in the middle of fighting a war. Certainly was true in my day.
Have to wonder why the information is not being released. Most definitely is in his record with Puerto Rican Guard.
There is no such thing as ‘snapped.’ It’s made up by corrupt defense lawyers to set the guilty free.
What's the matter with a full lieutenant (captain) with 16 years and eight years in grade, if he's happy there and is competent?
If he's a good armored-company commander, what's this urge to help him get lost at sea, in over his head, out of his class as a battcom or regimental adjutant? Anyone? Bueller ...? Bueller ....?
I think your analysis is right on the money.
Add to it 11 years National Guard, 5 active duty, and still on an E-4, and you know something is missing.
Like you say, an emergency leave is not likely to be denied. I’m guessing that’s not it. It’s probably leave during a training cycle. It is possible that the leave in question in the article is the leave from a few months back when his mother died. He felt that leave had been mishandled.
Like greyfriar has said, the company commander is the final say on his leave, but the CO won’t go against his NCO chain without a substantial reason.
I keep coming back to the E-4 rank after all that time national guard and active duty. They could mean there’d been a demotion somewhere along the line or there was a straight-up failure to qualify for promotion.
I’m wondering about only a 4 month tour in Iraq mentioned as his combat record. He’s been active duty the last 5 years at Bliss and Hood. It seems like he’d have seen more time overseas than that....especially with 11 national guard years during 1999-2010.
Using the SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ed Guess) method of reasoning I am going to propose that there are thousands, check that, tens to thousands of people serving in the military right now who are disaffected.
People have flipped over less. One time an airman was denied leave and he held the commander hostage for eight hours. Pissed all over commander during that time. They finally talked him down. Not sure what happened to him after that.
I never spent a year in the military where there weren’t a lot of disaffected folks. By and large, though, they didn’t gun down their NCO chain.
I overlapped the Viet era in my first tour (70-74), so we heard the “fragging” stories, but even those were rare, and even those were perpetrated by folks who’d gone off the deep end.
Let’s say this guy killed his NCOs because of a slow response to an emergency leave after his mother died, and that was 6 months ago. Still seems extreme to me.
Let’s say it was because another leave was denied, and thinking of his leave problem at the time of his mother’s death, he guns down his NCOs. Still seems extreme to me.
After a total of 16 years in the military this guy was an E-4. At most it should take only 2 years to make it to E-4. He then had 14 years to make one more promotion, and he wasn’t there.
Something is missing here.
And they don't go around shooting people.
Frankly, I don't give a frog's fat ass why he did....have the trial then hang his butt.
Reservist make rank slow. We had an E6 who was in his late fifties. The oldest you can stay on active duty at that rank is 47. 27+20=47. USAF age limit is 27 to enter active duty.
I think this guy hit the wall. He decided suicide was his best option. But instead of just offing himself he decided to to take a couple of others with him. There is something missing. But if he couldn’t find it, who can?
No trial possible. He’s dead. Shot himself when engaged by by an armed polecewoman.
Oh, you're no fun anymore. ;)
Slow rank is not the case in the National Guard, especially the Infantry.
It is very easy to make rank in the NG Infantry. And wasn’t he active duty for the last 4-5 years?