Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Fort Hood shooter snapped over denial of request for leave, Army confirms
FoxNews.com ^ | 4-7-2014 | FoxNews.com

Posted on 04/07/2014 1:53:44 PM PDT by servo1969

Edited on 04/07/2014 1:54:53 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

The spree began in one building of the sprawling complex, where Lopez, who was 34, first pulled his .45-caliber Caliber Smith & Wesson handgun and killed one, injuring 10.

"The deceased and one of wounded had been involved in the verbal altercation with subject," Grey said.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: army; bang; banglist; forthood; forthoodshooting; fthood; hood; movealong; nothingtoseehere; usarmy
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-69 next last
What the h-ll was carrying all that ammo for if not a planned attack?
1 posted on 04/07/2014 1:53:44 PM PDT by servo1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: servo1969

The headline says they know why, the story says otherwise


2 posted on 04/07/2014 1:55:24 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

After the first couple of bangs, a truely free citizen would have been returning fire, but being denied self-protection, yet another gun-free zone is a shooting gallery for madmen.


3 posted on 04/07/2014 1:57:56 PM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

Exactly.


4 posted on 04/07/2014 2:00:03 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

You are right. There really is nothing in the story that supports the headline.


5 posted on 04/07/2014 2:00:07 PM PDT by NEMDF
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: servo1969; jazusamo; P-Marlowe; bigheadfred; Girlene; smoothsailing; 4woodenboats

This jerk killed his NCO chain of command because they wouldn’t approve a leave.

There’s a reason the guy was only a specialist (E-4). He had 11 years in the National Guard and 5 years active duty and he was only a specialist.

We’re NOT being told something.

Just about the only way to accomplish that is by being a colossal screw-up!


6 posted on 04/07/2014 2:02:06 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

Too bad his concern was not about Gov’t spending in excess of revenue.


7 posted on 04/07/2014 2:03:50 PM PDT by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins
He had 11 years in the PR National Guard and 5 years active duty
8 posted on 04/07/2014 2:04:54 PM PDT by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I was a UAV DET CO, and I had a SPC that I needed to promote in the 33W slot. He damn near cried and did NOT want to be promoted. He had been a E-4 for ten years and loved it there. Shrug. Glad I was 19-series until OCS.


9 posted on 04/07/2014 2:05:08 PM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Admin Moderator; GeronL; NEMDF
This story on Fox says: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/07/fort-hood-shooter-snapped-over-denial-request-for-leave-army-confirms/

Fort Hood shooter Ivan Lopez's rampage followed an argument over the denial of his request for leave and did not appear to be due to some ongoing mental problem, an Army official said Monday.

The word came as officials announced findings of their ongoing investigation, which included interviews with more than 1,100 people and a recreation of the shooting last Wednesday, which left four dead including Lopez, and 16 injured.

“We only have one suspect,” said Chris Grey, spokesman for the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command. “We have found no evidence that this man belonged to a terrorist organization.”

Grey, who was flanked by other law enforcement officials, did not take questions at the brief Monday news conference, and said he would not divulge any information that could jeopardize the investigation.

snip

Killed were Army Sgt. Timothy Owens, Staff Sgt. Carlos Lazaney Rodriguez, 38, of Aguadilla, Puerto Rico and Sgt. 1st Class Daniel Ferguson, 39, of Florida.


10 posted on 04/07/2014 2:06:17 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

No mention of his politics. Usually they would have this guy pegged as a pro-second amend, tea party type.

Even when its a lefty like the IRS plane crash guy or Arizona shooter, they try to make him seem tea party-ish

Curious.


11 posted on 04/07/2014 2:06:35 PM PDT by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DCBryan1

Says to me that your troop had problems.


12 posted on 04/07/2014 2:10:08 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Or dumb as a bag of hair. I saw a guy on AFV trying to put on his Navy jumper and the guy had 6 service stripes representing 24 years of service (not gold either which would represent 12 years of good conduct) and he only made it to E-5.


13 posted on 04/07/2014 2:11:31 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants

Dumb as a box of rocks (or hair) fits my definition of colossal screw up. :>)


14 posted on 04/07/2014 2:14:35 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: servo1969
for some reason nobody anywhere, in the lame-stream, wants to answer this question ...
Did Ivan Lopez volunteer for a peace keeping mission to Egypt in mid 2000s while in Puerto Rican National Guard. That answer has to be contained in his records in Puerto Rico.
15 posted on 04/07/2014 2:15:16 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins
Hmmm. Makes me wonder if he had higher rank but was busted in an Article 15 or in a Court?

On the other hand, promotion can be slow in the Guard if the unit doesn't have a slot to promote into.

They sure aren't revealing much here.

16 posted on 04/07/2014 2:17:26 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DCBryan1

Could it be that this guy really liked him job/his MOS and didn’t want to switch to another job? Perhaps he didn’t want to become a buck sergeant which probably meant going to the A and B NOC schools. Perhaps he knew he was not cut out for or did not want to be a leader and had satisfied himself with his pay level. What kind of GT score did he have -if it is still called GT? Otherwise, was he a “good” soldier?

What is a 19-series?

Thanks.


17 posted on 04/07/2014 2:18:23 PM PDT by miele man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

He brought it because he assumed he was going to be denied. He wanted them to give him the excuse he was looking for. He got it.


18 posted on 04/07/2014 2:22:30 PM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I agree, they’re not saying anything about former problems and I’ve a hunch they’re there on his record.

If true he flipped over being denied leave there’s more than a few problems.


19 posted on 04/07/2014 2:23:54 PM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: jazusamo
more than a few problems

Best guess is a lone wolf closet moslem from here.

20 posted on 04/07/2014 2:27:55 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: xzins
There’s a reason the guy was only a specialist (E-4). He had 11 years in the National Guard and 5 years active duty and he was only a specialist.

We’re NOT being told something.

I've been thinking this right along, too. Add in the no-known combat injury that could relate to his claimed TBI/PTSD and it just doesn't add up.

21 posted on 04/07/2014 2:29:41 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

Bizarro world.

I would have had this guy pegged for another Timothy McVeigh type. Now, McVeigh was never identified as being an agent for Islamic jihadist assault, but considering how fast it was all hustled through and hushed up, including the quick execution, maybe the Federal government was trying to keep a genie in the bottle back then.

Now, there is nothing to connect this latest assault with another Islamic jihadist terror plot, but there is also a lot going on that is purposely kept isolated from those of us who are compulsive dot-connectors.

It ain’t paranoia if they really ARE picking on you.


22 posted on 04/07/2014 2:33:51 PM PDT by alloysteel (Selective and willful ignorance spells doom, to both victim and perpetrator - mostly the perp.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: xzins; servo1969; jazusamo; P-Marlowe; bigheadfred; Girlene; smoothsailing; 4woodenboats; GeronL

We still have a bunch of unknowns on “Why the leave was disapproved.” Could be no leave accrued, in a minus leave status, an operational mission planned or major training exercise tat was the same time as when he wanted leave.

Is it still in effect that only the CO can approve/disapprove leave requests? That was the requirement when I was in during the 70s, 80s, & 90s.


23 posted on 04/07/2014 2:34:31 PM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: icwhatudo

“...Curious...”

Why Curious??

Agenda, man... Always the agenda, above all else.

If it doesn’t advance their cause, it gets pushed aside or buried.


24 posted on 04/07/2014 2:35:04 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: no-to-illegals

That’s a fair possibility and if true the Army will do their best to debunk it.


25 posted on 04/07/2014 2:38:41 PM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

I still say the dirtbag wanted a free ride disability out and then decided on revenge when he knew he was not getting what he wanted.


26 posted on 04/07/2014 2:45:16 PM PDT by soycd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

More to it than denial of leave, IMO. We may find out he was also recently denied consideration for promotion. Living off base with a wife and young daughter on an E-4 salary would be a challenge for any man.

“Lopez, his wife and their young child moved to the Killeen area, where Fort Hood is located, in February. Prior to the move, the family lived at another Texas military base, authorities said. The Quail Circle apartment Lopez lived in is approximately two miles from the military post”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/who-is-ivan-lopez_n_5084315.html


27 posted on 04/07/2014 2:45:47 PM PDT by smoothsailing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: smoothsailing

He was denied leave last Fall when his mother died. He had to beg for it. They gave him 24 hours. Then they changed it to 48 hours. Then I bet they did not approve paying for his travels due to sequestration. There is more to his snapping. But it will trickle out, I am sure. And I am speculating about the paying for travel part.


28 posted on 04/07/2014 2:56:31 PM PDT by petitfour
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: no-to-illegals

I doubt he volunteered for that. If his unit was slotted to go, then he was going.

That Puerto Rican replaced my unit in Egypt.

However, It was a peace keeping mission and was not hard. We were allowed to drink on base and had multiple bars to drink at.


29 posted on 04/07/2014 2:57:59 PM PDT by And2TheRepublic (People like freedom of speech, but only when it's sweet to their ears.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: petitfour

There are two facts that tell me a lot about the shooter.

1st fact: Having issues with leave.

- The Army is all about family when stateside. The fact that he had so much trouble with leave tells me his chain of command did not like him at all. Those reasons are unclear, but from experience, when a soldier has those kind of issues with leave is because he is a dirtbag soldier.

2nd fact: Being a Specialist so long.

- He was in the Infantry. Even if you are a dirtbag, eventually you are going to be promoted. You are going to get enough points over time, and when you are next on the list, they cannot pass you up unless you deny the promotion or have unfavorable action. The only issue he would of had that wouldn’t be his fault is any interstate transfer or him going active. He would have had to wait a year to be on the the promotion list.

Those two things are all I need to know about the guy. He was a POS soldier. Any Army veteran who has been in more than 3-4 years could tell you the same thing.


30 posted on 04/07/2014 3:07:36 PM PDT by And2TheRepublic (People like freedom of speech, but only when it's sweet to their ears.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: DCBryan1

31 posted on 04/07/2014 3:18:18 PM PDT by lightman (O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance, giving to Thy Church vict'ry o'er Her enemies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: xzins

From what i have read/heard about similar things, there is no such thing, really, as an isolated “snap.” It is a protracted collection of events that leads to this sort of thing, if that is in fact what happened here.


32 posted on 04/07/2014 3:28:16 PM PDT by cld51860 (Oderint dum metuant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: servo1969; Revolting cat!; GeronL

“Work related violence” again?

I guess the only answer is to reduce the size of the military even more to reduce the possibility of more attacks.


33 posted on 04/07/2014 3:52:24 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: “Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: icwhatudo
No mention of his politics. Usually they would have this guy pegged as a pro-second amend, tea party type.

So go to the social media...

Fort Hood gunman vented on Facebook about Sandy Hook shooter, Iraq (CNN ^ | updated 7:53 PM EDT, Sat April 5, 2014 | By Ray Sanchez, CNN)

34 posted on 04/07/2014 4:02:38 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: “Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: petitfour

I didn’t know about the earlier leave denial when his mother died. Fits a scenario of one rejection being piled on another. Starts to form a pattern that pushed him over the edge.


35 posted on 04/07/2014 4:06:40 PM PDT by smoothsailing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Much has changed since I took off the uniform, but I remain in touch through friends, family, and work associations.

Ordinary leave is generally granted if requested on a timely basis, does not impinge on the unit mission, and the soldier requesting it has sufficient days accrued. During the Cold War that meant that only so many of a unit were allowed to be on leave at any given time and that leaves were restricted during certain key training or deployment events. Some junior NCO’s tried to use leave as a reward, but if a soldier pushed it through the chain of command, that usually didn’t fly.

Things are a little different now. With the current training and deployment cycles, much of the ordinary leave program is tied to block leaves. The whole unit goes on leave together tied to their spot in the cycle. Exceptions are granted, but not often. These block leave dates are well known in advance and soldiers can plan vacations, visits to family, and personal business.

Emergency leave is the big exception, and while not required, a Red Cross message usually greases the skids. I cannot recall ever denying an emergency leave backed by a Red Cross message, even in combat.

I suspect that Lopez was requesting leave out of cycle, he may not have had leave accrued, and since he was newly assigned he may have had more of his share compared to others in the unit and probably had taken leave in conjunction with his PCS (Permanent Change of Station) from Ft. Bliss. Sounds like his platoon sergeant said no, and rather than going up the chain, he went postal. As a seasoned soldier, he would have known that the platoon sergeant did not have the final say.

This guy was trouble spelled with a capital T and he slipped through the cracks. An unfortunate characteristic of an Army in the middle of fighting a war. Certainly was true in my day.


36 posted on 04/07/2014 4:08:06 PM PDT by centurion316
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: And2TheRepublic
I doubt he volunteered for that. If his unit was slotted to go, then he was going.

Have to wonder why the information is not being released. Most definitely is in his record with Puerto Rican Guard.

37 posted on 04/07/2014 4:11:51 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: servo1969

There is no such thing as ‘snapped.’ It’s made up by corrupt defense lawyers to set the guilty free.


38 posted on 04/07/2014 4:17:30 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DCBryan1
The "up or out" philosophy in the U.S. military is an established one, but I've always wondered about its wisdom.

What's the matter with a full lieutenant (captain) with 16 years and eight years in grade, if he's happy there and is competent?

If he's a good armored-company commander, what's this urge to help him get lost at sea, in over his head, out of his class as a battcom or regimental adjutant? Anyone? Bueller ...? Bueller ....?

39 posted on 04/07/2014 5:03:00 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: centurion316; GreyFriar

I think your analysis is right on the money.

Add to it 11 years National Guard, 5 active duty, and still on an E-4, and you know something is missing.

Like you say, an emergency leave is not likely to be denied. I’m guessing that’s not it. It’s probably leave during a training cycle. It is possible that the leave in question in the article is the leave from a few months back when his mother died. He felt that leave had been mishandled.

Like greyfriar has said, the company commander is the final say on his leave, but the CO won’t go against his NCO chain without a substantial reason.

I keep coming back to the E-4 rank after all that time national guard and active duty. They could mean there’d been a demotion somewhere along the line or there was a straight-up failure to qualify for promotion.

I’m wondering about only a 4 month tour in Iraq mentioned as his combat record. He’s been active duty the last 5 years at Bliss and Hood. It seems like he’d have seen more time overseas than that....especially with 11 national guard years during 1999-2010.


40 posted on 04/07/2014 5:26:02 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: servo1969; jazusamo; P-Marlowe; bigheadfred; Girlene; smoothsailing; xzins

Using the SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ed Guess) method of reasoning I am going to propose that there are thousands, check that, tens to thousands of people serving in the military right now who are disaffected.


41 posted on 04/07/2014 5:26:42 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jazusamo

People have flipped over less. One time an airman was denied leave and he held the commander hostage for eight hours. Pissed all over commander during that time. They finally talked him down. Not sure what happened to him after that.


42 posted on 04/07/2014 5:37:31 PM PDT by USAF80
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred; servo1969; jazusamo; P-Marlowe; Girlene; smoothsailing

I never spent a year in the military where there weren’t a lot of disaffected folks. By and large, though, they didn’t gun down their NCO chain.

I overlapped the Viet era in my first tour (70-74), so we heard the “fragging” stories, but even those were rare, and even those were perpetrated by folks who’d gone off the deep end.

Let’s say this guy killed his NCOs because of a slow response to an emergency leave after his mother died, and that was 6 months ago. Still seems extreme to me.

Let’s say it was because another leave was denied, and thinking of his leave problem at the time of his mother’s death, he guns down his NCOs. Still seems extreme to me.

After a total of 16 years in the military this guy was an E-4. At most it should take only 2 years to make it to E-4. He then had 14 years to make one more promotion, and he wasn’t there.

Something is missing here.


43 posted on 04/07/2014 5:41:24 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred
hat, tens to thousands of people serving in the military right now who are disaffected.

And they don't go around shooting people.

Frankly, I don't give a frog's fat ass why he did....have the trial then hang his butt.

44 posted on 04/07/2014 5:43:02 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Reservist make rank slow. We had an E6 who was in his late fifties. The oldest you can stay on active duty at that rank is 47. 27+20=47. USAF age limit is 27 to enter active duty.


45 posted on 04/07/2014 5:48:44 PM PDT by USAF80
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I think this guy hit the wall. He decided suicide was his best option. But instead of just offing himself he decided to to take a couple of others with him. There is something missing. But if he couldn’t find it, who can?


46 posted on 04/07/2014 6:00:52 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

No trial possible. He’s dead. Shot himself when engaged by by an armed polecewoman.


47 posted on 04/07/2014 6:14:30 PM PDT by MEG33 (God Bless And Protect Our Troops)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: MEG33
No trial possible. He’s dead. Shot himself when engaged by by an armed polecewoman.

Oh, you're no fun anymore. ;)

48 posted on 04/07/2014 6:15:50 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: USAF80

Slow rank is not the case in the National Guard, especially the Infantry.

It is very easy to make rank in the NG Infantry. And wasn’t he active duty for the last 4-5 years?


49 posted on 04/07/2014 6:26:26 PM PDT by And2TheRepublic (People like freedom of speech, but only when it's sweet to their ears.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: xzins; bigheadfred; smoothsailing; jazusamo
Maybe the guy was bumped back to E4 at some point after some infraction?

He claims to have suffered a tramatic brain injury although there was no indication of combat. He was taking antidepressants and Ambien, so who knows if these could have added to aggressive tendencies.

On top of that his facebook postings indicate some spiritual warfare was happening within him. Fort Hood Shooter Ivan Lopez's Chilling Facebook Post: 'The Devil Will Take Me...Green Light And Finger Ready'

I'd be interested in what his meds history was (what he was taking, how long had he been on them, etc.)

It does appear he snapped over the leave issue as the army claims, but to say it was not due to some ongoing mental health issue gives me pause. I'd say he had some mental health issues to have done what he did.
50 posted on 04/07/2014 6:36:16 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-69 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson