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United Methodist Bishop drops all charges..calls for end of “disciplining”..who perform gay weddings
Patheos ^ | March 10, 2014 | John Shore

Posted on 03/10/2014 12:24:11 PM PDT by C19fan

Last October Dr. Thomas Ogletree (above), a clergyman in the United Methodist Church (UMC), performed the wedding ceremony for his gay son. UMC pastors are not supposed to marry gay couples, family members or otherwise. They’re instead supposed to believe what their Book of Discipline (which is to the UMC what, say, the Tax Code Book is to the IRS) tells them to believe, which is that “homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”

.......................................................

So guess what happened this morning instead of the trial of Thomas Ogletree? The UMC bishop overseeing the trial dropped all charges against the pastor. And he didn’t just drop them, either. He turned them into a huge brass bell he used to ring what will likely be remembered as the death knell of the anti-gay policy of the largest mainline Christian denomination in the world.

(Excerpt) Read more at patheos.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: apostasy; bishop; gay; homosexualagenda; marriage; methodist; roguebishop; sodomy; umc; unitedmethodist
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Not surprised another Mainline Church will now start performing gay marriages.
1 posted on 03/10/2014 12:24:11 PM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan

Not SBC churches.


2 posted on 03/10/2014 12:27:06 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

Yet.


3 posted on 03/10/2014 12:30:24 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: C19fan
The liberal activists within the UMC are going to be responsible for the demise of a mainline protestant church that will splinter into several smaller units. Ain't civil wars grand.
4 posted on 03/10/2014 12:31:21 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Obama is just the symptom of what is destroying the U.S.)
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To: AppyPappy

Not going to happen. What will happen is some queer loving church being renamed with “Baptist” in its moniker and thus being equated to SBC churches so the press can say see...


5 posted on 03/10/2014 12:31:58 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: C19fan

This is sad.

But I wish to posit that this did not happen in a vacuum, but rather in an environment where sexual virtue in general has gotten short shrift.

Adultery is adultery no matter how it’s carried out, and the saying about beams and splinters in eyes, applies. The more sexually virtuous a church, the better leg it has to stand on to admonish and guide homosexual sinners. It is not being hypocrites about the way that God wants it to “possess its vessel.”


6 posted on 03/10/2014 12:32:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

And then the SBC will promptly announce that no, this is not an SBC church (or that it is a now-former one).

There are fewer and fewer men left standing today.


7 posted on 03/10/2014 12:33:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: C19fan
...largest mainline Christian denomination in the world...

The United Methodists were the largest 'mainline Christian denomination'? I thought, given their liberal tendencies, that they were akin to the Episcopalians. Basically, a once large Christian denomination, taken over by wolves in sheep clothing, that was now fading away into obscurity. What's left? The SBC, and a few splintered off Presbyterian groups (Free Pres, PCA, OPC, etc) that still keep the Faith?

I guess people still seek to honor man rather than God.

8 posted on 03/10/2014 12:35:24 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: C19fan

Most churches are just community activity centers now....


9 posted on 03/10/2014 12:36:18 PM PDT by clintonh8r (Don't twerk me, Broi)
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To: Resolute Conservative

I think the Metropolitan Church is basically Baptist.

All the SBC plants in our area do not use Baptist in their name because of the negative connotation.


10 posted on 03/10/2014 12:37:02 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: C19fan

This is another battle in the UMC. The war for it isn’t over. The official Methodist doctrine still forbids it. This guy only oversees CT and NY region.


11 posted on 03/10/2014 12:37:10 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: C19fan
"largest mainline Christian denomination in the world"

Really? I've barely heard of "United Methodist". Had to look up if there is a church in my town -- turns out there is but they sure are invisible.

12 posted on 03/10/2014 12:37:49 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: El Cid

The UMC does not ordain gays, does not perform same-sex marriage and the church is officially pro-life.


13 posted on 03/10/2014 12:38:58 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy

Yep. We visited a church called Baptist when we moved and were church shopping. During our month visit they dropped the term Baptist from their name (voted on it before we started coming). We quit going that day. When called by several people to see why we were AWOL I flat told them why. More than one said it was voted on by the members so they could reach more people who might be turned off by the Baptist theology.

I said good luck with your prosperity gospel we will be looking elsewhere.


14 posted on 03/10/2014 12:42:09 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: C19fan

Wow, the entire world is going nuts.


15 posted on 03/10/2014 12:42:18 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: AppyPappy

So if this fellow’s an odd ball, is he going to get ousted?


16 posted on 03/10/2014 12:43:16 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: C19fan
So guess what happened this morning instead of the trial of Thomas Ogletree? The UMC bishop overseeing the trial dropped all charges against the pastor. And he didn’t just drop them, either. He turned them into a huge brass bell he used to ring what will likely be remembered as the death knell of the anti-gay policy of the largest mainline Christian denomination in the world.

“Send not to ask for whom the dong swings...it swings for the UMC.”

17 posted on 03/10/2014 12:43:31 PM PDT by RichInOC (2013-14 Tiber Swim Team)
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To: C19fan

This may be okay government-to-government, but politicians and popes and clergy BETTER ask the people or there will be eternal resistance. They cannot assume our support and they cannot do it in our name without approval.


18 posted on 03/10/2014 12:43:39 PM PDT by Rapscallion (First your image. Than your voice. Then location. Now you really are a subject.)
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To: C19fan

Soon real Christians will have to turn away from the abominations being created by “mainline” denominational churches going rogue and leaving Jesus’ Christianity behind.


19 posted on 03/10/2014 12:44:15 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: C19fan

The UMC will fully embrace the entire homosexual agenda within 4 years.

Leave while you can escape the ensuing rot and stench.


20 posted on 03/10/2014 12:45:01 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

The SBC churches have their own problems, like marketing for $$$.


21 posted on 03/10/2014 12:45:44 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: thackney

I’ve seen UMC in various intensities. The good ones are serious about salvation, almost like an Arminian flavor of Baptist. The bad ones are about mushy self esteem. (I saw one that put on a musical about Daniel with a girl as the title character. Hello, there is a reason it’s not Danielle.)


22 posted on 03/10/2014 12:48:09 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Rapscallion

Pull out the bible and review it. Find out what the inspired word of God actually is. You might be surprised if you read the US Constitution at the same time. Homosexcuality is not a guaranteed right.


23 posted on 03/10/2014 12:48:21 PM PDT by Rapscallion (First your image. Than your voice. Then location. Now you really are a subject.)
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To: fwdude

More like keeping out the supplanters.


24 posted on 03/10/2014 12:48:23 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: C19fan

During the end days it has been prophesized that things like this will occur. Consider the immense damage to peoples faith these “ministers” are doing. I hope and pray to never steer people away from God like those men.


25 posted on 03/10/2014 12:49:38 PM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I would guess “no”. Bishops would be reluctant to kick one out for taking a controversial stand. The church could simply go after any pastor who performed one.

This is all tied to whether the state says you must perform them.


26 posted on 03/10/2014 12:50:19 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: fwdude

And the vacuous “sinner’s prayer”.


27 posted on 03/10/2014 12:51:05 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy
The UMC does not ordain gays, does not perform same-sex marriage and the church is officially pro-life.

I'm glad to be corrected. I thought I had heard a lot of negative things about them the past 10 years (basically the points you refuted: pro sodomite marriage; not strong in taking a pro-life stance; generally preaching a 'social good works program' rather than preaching the Gospel; etc) - but I'm glad to hear that I was wrong.

28 posted on 03/10/2014 12:51:32 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: steve86

One standout from the Mainline implosion is the United Methodist Church. It has lost over 3 million U.S. members since the 1960s, more than any other U.S. church. But, almost uniquely among U.S. denominations, its membership is international, and it now has more than 4.4 million members overseas, mostly in Africa. The church’s global membership just surpassed 12 million for the first time in its history. Just released data shows the U.S. church lost more than 300,000 members just across four recent years, while the African churches gained almost 1 million. The denomination’s most liberal U.S. regions, on the West Coast and in the Northeast, were the fastest declining, while the relatively more moderate Southeast remained almost steady.

http://spectator.org/articles/38044/thriving-christianity


29 posted on 03/10/2014 12:51:47 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: AppyPappy

There would seem to be a point where controversy ends and abomination begins, though.

To date, none of the “gay marriage” states have said that religious ministers “must” perform them. Attempting to do that would really make the merde s’impact le propeller.


30 posted on 03/10/2014 12:52:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

The Methodist church has been circling the drain theologically for a while.

My wife was a choir director at a large UMC in Northern California. She quit after the head pastor told her he was an agnostic.


31 posted on 03/10/2014 12:53:06 PM PDT by DarrellZero
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To: AppyPappy

There is much internal criticism about this.

It boils down to whether the prayer is sincere. If it’s not sincere, don’t pray it.


32 posted on 03/10/2014 12:53:43 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: DarrellZero

I’ve heard of atheist priests and rabbis. Seems some seminaries don’t ask the obvious — do you believe?


33 posted on 03/10/2014 12:54:49 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: El Cid

The UMC is considered “family friendly”. That goes from infants to octogenarians.

My daughter is a member of a Methodist “faith community” where she goes to college. She is spending Spring Break on a mission trip in Central America. We have started a “faith community” as well. It’s part of the new “Let’s open up the model” push by the church. To put it succinctly, it’s a marriage of Sunday School, small group and worship.


34 posted on 03/10/2014 12:57:10 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy

The nonagenarians are outta luck?

(Duck’n & runn’n!)


35 posted on 03/10/2014 12:58:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: C19fan

When certain Episcopalian sects started rainbow weddings for homosexuals, many if not most of their members showed up at Catholic and Orthodox churches as new members.


36 posted on 03/10/2014 1:01:31 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It is vacuous. It completely skirts the issue of whether the “repeater” really thinks they need a Savior. If you don’t think you need a Savior, what’s the point?
But of course, I am colored by my Methodism where you can always Fall from Grace so the prayer doesn’t ensure anything.

Also every Baptist I have met recently come across as Reformed. They define “Once Saved Always Saved” as classical “Perseverance of the Saints”. Strange.


37 posted on 03/10/2014 1:02:25 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: thackney
This is another battle in the UMC. The war for it isn’t over. The official Methodist doctrine still forbids it. This guy only oversees CT and NY region.

The west coast UMC is already joined to the enemy. I left years ago after the minister preached that there was no hell, no devil and no demons. John Lennon would have been proud.

38 posted on 03/10/2014 1:02:47 PM PDT by aimhigh ( Self defense - a human right.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
Not SBC churches.

Not so fast: http://praisephilly.com/80061/woman-sues-church-over-gay-marriage/

39 posted on 03/10/2014 1:02:58 PM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I’ve seen UMC in various intensities.

Sure. People in different areas have different focus by their communities. Probably typical of a general comparison of other denominations comparing their Texas and California groups, or New England compared to Mississippi.

40 posted on 03/10/2014 1:03:05 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: aimhigh

Our current pastor also has a problem with Hell. I imagine many of them do. It makes Santa Claus sound “mean”.

Oh, I mean God.


41 posted on 03/10/2014 1:05:21 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: jeffc
Soon real Christians will have to turn away from the abominations being created by “mainline” denominational churches going rogue and leaving Jesus’ Christianity behind.

And so it was in Sodom and Gommorah.

42 posted on 03/10/2014 1:07:01 PM PDT by Rapscallion (First your image. Than your voice. Then location. Now you really are a subject.)
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To: AppyPappy
The UMC does not ordain gays, does not perform same-sex marriage and the church is officially pro-life.

Maybe in your area. I've seen gay and lesbian UMC pastors in Oregon. The UMC is like the USA under Obama. On paper, we have the constitution, but reality is sadly going down hill quickly.

43 posted on 03/10/2014 1:08:02 PM PDT by aimhigh ( Self defense - a human right.)
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To: AppyPappy

To frame the person who prays it as “repeater” is to beg the question your own self. Watch about smuggling assumptions into the picture.

Yes, SBC Baptist leans either Calvinist or Calminian, with genuine salvation being permanent. That’s a robust affirmation of the destining power of God, which so happens to be true.

There’s a reason Baptists see a lot of miracles. The more ways God is praised, the more ways He blesses.


44 posted on 03/10/2014 1:09:21 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: C19fan

I find this news shocking. I’m shocked the UMC *ever had* a prohibition against homo weddings. UMC is about as lost as a church can get.


45 posted on 03/10/2014 1:16:01 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: C19fan

All the UMC in all of obamas 57 states can OK this God still holds the final vote and he has said its an abomination. So good luck to the Bishops et al. who have swallowed the LGBT line hook line and sinker.
there is a reason that narrow is the gate into heaven.
Freegards
LEX


46 posted on 03/10/2014 1:21:03 PM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: thackney

Sorry, the battle is over and lost. As soon as a “faith” entity entertains the consideration of the benefits/legitimacy of sinful living, it has ceased to be Christian.

The only way I could see this as being otherwise is if the apostate bishop is denounced, removed and defrocked instantly. which of course he will not be. Not from the denomination that hosts an abortion celebration in their national headquarters annually on Roe v. Wade Day.


47 posted on 03/10/2014 1:22:12 PM PDT by crusher (GREEN: Globaloney for the Gullible)
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To: Cyber Liberty

The UMC’s doctrinal legislative body is international and proportional to regular congregants, and the liberal U.S. delegates have been outvoted on the issue by the growing foreign delegations. Given that they can’t change the demographics nor persuade the foreign (heavily African) delegates, my guess is that the U.S. church will separately caucus before the next convention and adopt a U.S. (pro-gay ordination and -marriage) rule, and present it as a fait accompli to the foreign delegates, who will face the hard choice of expelling the U.S. church (and losing its considerable financial support) or tolerating its local rule.


48 posted on 03/10/2014 1:22:41 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: aimhigh

John Lennon was young and reckless with much of his political thinking. Politically he was naive and unrealistic.

John was a tortured soul since he was a little adorable boy. Rent the film ‘Nowhere Boy’ to see a very accurate portrayal of his young life, of how the tragic and abusive conflict of his parents was thrust on him at such as early and tender age. It’s a great teaching aid for parents in divorce to show how parental conflict damages young children.

People close to John (Ringo) say he had come around to Christ and was entering a period of his life where he would devote himself to Christ. Sadly his life was taken before we witnessed the full conversion.

Younger people and their naive thoughts and actions can frustrate us who are older. I won’t judge them.

As we grow older and wiser, it’s amazing how much more we appreciate Jesus Christ and his infinite wisdom; it’s just amazing how awareness grabs hold. So I let young people make their mistakes and try to be there for them when they start to realize they may have made mistakes.

John was loved by so many people even with all his flaws. I am sure he would have led enormous numbers of people to Christ had he lived to express his new found devotion.


49 posted on 03/10/2014 1:29:09 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: C19fan

Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, are all POST-CHRISTIAN Churches.


50 posted on 03/10/2014 1:38:18 PM PDT by ZULU (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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