Skip to comments.January 20 - A sad day
Posted on 01/20/2014 6:43:00 AM PST by Baynative
I'm watching Martin Luther King's speech at the mall in Washington D.C. - I'm looking at the reflecting pool and thinking where America has gone...
From “content of their character” to Affirmative Action.
From “I have a dream” to you will submit to my dream!
MLK Jr. was not a perfect person. He was checkered. But what mattered was what spirit claimed his life for eternity. And I believe that spirit was God.
It’s the “other guy” who so far appears to have a grip on Barack.
As for pens and phones? Not a bad idea actually. Let’s have a Pen and Phone rally! Let’s show him what Pens and Phones are meant for!
You forgot Eric Holder and the Department of Just-Us.
They back the gays, illegal immigrants, criminals, blacks and hispanics (in that order) and no-one else.
There is no content of one’s character anymore, it is all about votes for democRATS. and the Dept of Just-Us is meant to protect the vote buying election rigging machine.
Where America has gone is the end of her course. But oh, did she have a great run!
And sometimes folks get cynical about MLK Jr.’s imperfections. And they were a lot. He was a reported womanizer. He flirted with communistic ideals. Maybe that’s one reason why God arranged to usher him off this mortal coil that soon. Because God did not want his message to be polluted with scandal.
Let me say something that may draw some ire. Communism is an idea that is not so much wrong as too far ahead of its time. It really depends on cooperating participants, and the most communistic regimes have intensive efforts at mind control. And we are rightly repulsed by the idea. But this is on this evil, mortal coil. Suppose everybody agreed willingly to goodness and God? Well there is a place that does it. It’s called heaven. There isn’t any cruelty to get people to conform, because it’s not needed. Only the “charm” (if I may put it that way, save reverence) of God.
Starting in the 1960’s we decided to water the weeds.
She’s at the end of the worldly rope.
But not necessary at the end of a heavenly one. The experience will be jarring but it will also, IMHO, be marked with miracles.
MLK Isn't The Only One With A Dream
Certainly has strayed very far from his vision, which was rooted in the Bible.
Sickens me to see young black men, who now are free to become ANYTHING THEY WANT TO BE in this country opting to drop-out and gang bang. As if all the sacrifices of that time were for naught.
You really believe James Earl Ray was on a mission from God? Seriously?
The future looks quite glum from a worldly viewpoint. That’s the bad news.
Heaven hasn’t finished gittin-er-done. That’s the good news. (Sometimes I think heaven is full of rednecks, of all colors to be sure. Jesus was born as a redneck.)
Most of us would envision just a big wipe-out of the entire society by a disgusted God. But I say that’s premature at best. Even comparing the place to Sodom, look at the numbers and look at the dialogue of Abraham with God. I don’t see the curtain anywhere close to ringing down on the earth yet. I do see the curtain which tore from top to bottom. Things changed from the Old Testament when Christ died for our sins. God loves now to surprise us with grace rather than with wrath. Wrath may be needed to get our attention to what’s at stake, but then once that attention is gained, grace flows in like a river.
From “content of their character” regressing back to the “color of their skin”.
In the same way that Satan is on “missions from God.”
Communism is atheism, and that idea is demonic and NWO.
America had to intervene in Europe after WWII with the Marshall Plan, because most of the countries were communist at that time and starving due to the lack of food. Yes... WWII, Hitler, and all the fighting devastation caused that, however with communism they were likely to never recover without help.
The Marshall Plan spent 1500 Million Dollars to turn European economies around, and now the thanks we get is the implementation of that curse of communism in our government. The man responsible for the Marshall Law was President Truman (a Democrat) and his Administration, prior to the communist takeover of his party starting around 1963.
God’s word speaks of Christians having all things in common, and sharing (he who gathered much did not have too much and he who gathered little did not have too little)...but that is not communism. Communism is the government owning all things and the people can go to hell and starve, unless they want to give them something...big difference.
Jesus said ‘render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s’ speaking of that current government’s taxes. He never claimed the world system was ok, in fact the opposite.
One has only to look at the poverty of citizens in communist countries and the officials living in prosperity on the taxpayer dollars, it’s only the elite who benefit.
Capitalism is what Winston Churchill said ‘Socialism is the equal sharing of misery, whereas Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings’...I’ll always take the latter.
I have no idea what that means, but I doubt that you know either.
It wouldn’t be wise or fair to forget that we have come a long ways regarding discrimination—which is very important—since MLKJ’s time.
That’s an interesting objection, though. It’s the kind of objection that comes from people without a robust faith in the Lord.
The Lord allows for evil agents to do evil things and STILL for goodness to prevail in the end. We look at individual events in a vacuum and want to proclaim a moral judgment on the whole. That’s foolish; only God has a grasp of the whole. Fortunately for us, we also were sent Christ (and the bible, which tells us much useful detail about Him) to save all the willing, so we can have a glimpse of God’s vision too.
I don’t disagree. Communism in this mortal coil is a recipe for hell.
I know far, far better than you wish to give credit for.
As a primer for you, go read the book of Job.
I.e. please do not presume to hold me captive to your ignorant attitude. But do something to help your ignorance. You probably will find Job hard to swallow. You will probably say what kind of cruel God would let Satan just DO that. And then God’s explanation was to display His surpassing glory before Job... what is God, some crazy egotist?
Well, no. God is the one who blesses. But we are in a battle zone, this mortal coil. However God is so wise that God can give selective permission to evil and STILL arrange for goodness to win in the end.
The need to rethink and redesign school discipline practices is frankly long overdue, said Education Secretary Arne Duncan, speaking in Baltimore alongside Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. as the two leaders unveiled what were described as the first national guidelines on school discipline
I think there is a sort of bell curve example to illustrate America's attitudes toward acceptance.
After Dr. King's speech and through much of the 70s there was a true movement toward becoming a color blind nation. But as the race baiters became more vocal and injected themselves in issues and when militant organizations like New Black Panthers and LaRaza worked to foment separation the trend began to slide.
When I was in college ('68-'72) there was a building atmosphere of cooperation and getting to know each other. There would never have been talk of a Black Student Union or Latino Caucus.
But you have to keep context in mind, as well as some theological truth.
Hell is the devil’s feeble imitation of heaven. Sin is the devil’s feeble imitation of righteousness. But instead of generosity and joy, all he can create is poverty and misery.
Communism is trying to implement heaven on earth with only hellish resources. It Will. Not. Work. (Unless your goal is to create a kakotopia.)
Note please that with the early Christian church, many things were voluntarily shared in common. If not literally donated, then offered for shared use (such as homes). That is a little preview of heaven. And it depended on all agreeing on the love of God down to the hilt.
They decided to implement a collective society along the classic Marxism lines of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
It was a disaster. People who worked hard resented their surplus produce being handed to those who did not work as hard. So they eventually produced only enough to meet their own needs. Eventually the concept had to be scrapped.
That's a great description of many facets of American culture; from education and justice to social interaction and employment.
Bouncing from pillar to post with no guide.
Remember even punishment is not intended by God for its own sake. “His wrath lasts but a moment, his lovingkindness endures forever.” It brings attention to what’s at stake, i.e. good and evil. With the robust rejection of any idea of the grace of God, has come a profound inability to deal sanely with the concept of penalties.
Talking about these things to people is a bit like trying to describe water to a fish. It’s so ubiquitous that it’s hard to transcend it in thought.
I’m sorry to tell you that this was not a duplication of the power of the early church. So your straw man falls flat.
In our over-hyped modern parlance we might call it a CINO (church in name only).
Don’t compare weak churches to strong ones.
[Don’t compare weak churches to strong ones.]
Well, actually, DO compare them. And learn some lessons.
[Well, actually, DO compare them. And learn some lessons.]
And in fact the chesty-thumpers over the trumpeted Christian roots of America would do well to note that, as the saying goes, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.” I don’t want to say it was NOTHING, but it was weak even historically speaking. It was a mile wide, an inch deep.
Oh my, we prided ourselves on our religion. I am sorry to put it that way, but I am being utterly candid. That’s how we got unstable arrangements with Caesars being expected to carry the gospel, then getting all bent out of shape when Caesars reverted to being honest, self-revering Caesars.
The early churches were an inch wide, a mile deep. That made the voluntary sharing system possible.
I am pained to see the sloppiness with which non-equivalent situations are compared here on FR. It results in impotent thinking, because we are chasing around after blurry forms.
Oh, don’t get me wrong—I’m not for the reverse discrimination that has become our norm.
But to downplay what MLKJ symbolizes and how unjust too much of our country was until his time is noxious.
I know a white fellow who lived during Jim Crow years of the south and he is utterly disgusted at some of the things he saw. He is an interesting one to talk about rednecks to, because he saw the ugly side of redneck that prided itself in “not being nigger.” I kid him about good rednecks from time to time, trying to get him to put it in a broader context, and actually he does see, it’s just that something so ugly is hard to put in a broader context.
But as I pointed out, the voluntary sharing system was an epic fail.
In fact, if you truly knew your history, you would know that the early churches were incredibly corrupt and ridden with scandal. Especially the Catholic church of Medieval times.
And as I pointed out, spiritual milieu matters.
If you think I was coming at this thing in the slightest to insinuate that a religious system could make communism work for a country in this mortal coil, then please disabuse yourself of that notion. At once. Because it dishonors what I have to say and because you look silly flailing at a straw man :-).
Being a church doesn’t mean being a very powerful one. You can be saved and still be weak on earth. What one displays of God’s glory on earth is up to the Christian.
I’m talking theory that applies to powerful churches. Which also tend to either helpfully inspire or else repel the lukewarm believer. Like I said, inch wide, mile deep.
Communism is an idea that is not so much wrong as too far ahead of its time.
Later in the post, you were implying that Communism is a good idea and that we just aren't ready for it yet because we haven't willingly accepted goodness and God. So yes, it would be good to have you explain what you are talking about.
There is a time when we will be in heaven (if saved).
Clear enough? Do you feel sheepish now?
I mean... what am I supposed to do, “feel sheepish” and tie myself to an earthbound viewpoint? I have long left that. Without a view of eternity, we can’t even make sense of earth.
Incidentally what do you think the 1000 years of iron rule by Christ on earth (if it happens according to a more or less literal read of the book of Revelation) would be like.
To be fair the scripture is silent. But if anyone had the knowledge to be able to make a system, that is like a pyramid balanced on a tip, work, it would be God directly.
I’m trying to raise people’s sights past earth. Maybe I am failing.
No, I'm afraid that I do not yet feel sheepish. You still didn't answer my question on why you feel that Communism is an idea "before it's time". When will the time for Communism be? Are you saying that in heaven, we will be Communists?
A person is judged entirely by the color of skin, but it’s the reverse of what MLK is insinuating.
Doesn’t make it less ugly, but it helps to explain it.
Growing up in the ‘60s in the North, where I wasn’t exposed to it directly, my mother always explained it as an ugly, class-driven, compensation reaction.
A truly great American was born today: “LanceyHoward”
He would have been 60 today.
Lancey loved this country and made no apologies for its greatness.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY my “biggest brother”.
This is, and always will be, the path taken when government tries to manage morality.
Yes, we will be, with the One ruler that can actually make radical mutual sharing work, and the One population that can carry it out. It’ll look like those early churches and even better. Infinity wide, infinity deep.
This is by no means an endorsement of attempts to try it in any circumstance without the necessary conditions. Meritocracies together with compassionate PRIVATE gospel ministries are the best thing in this fallen world.
I am afraid you cannot see to a transcendent God. And if this is the test that shows you cannot, I suggest you send God a knee mail and sure! ask Him for wisdom to refute what I say. If you can.
What I rather press on you is the realization is that hell has taken a radically heavenly idea and cynically misused it in a situation where it cannot succeed.
I’m sorry to correct you, but the intensity of gospel which was present in the 1st century churches had fizzled down to very little by the time the bible was recognized as a canon.
It was not an epic fail in the 1st century, not while God was actually cracking down on the likes of Ananias and Sapphira. Be part of the scene and follow the rules, or else don’t be part of it.
The two situations are not the same. Christian faith had passed from Team A (the Jews) to Team B (the Gentiles). Team A was the one which God wanted to carry it out. However the baton passed to Team B rather than lose that witness altogether.
It isn’t GOING to have the power to do it, probably, until Christ comes back. But in the meantime, those who can privately drill down into the gospel power should by all means do so, and they may become part of microcosms of sharing in Christ’s power. You could even call those microcosms small-c “communist.”
God has no opposite. There is no “pure” evil. There is misused goodness. Even in hell, tormented souls willingly stay there, reviling God while heaven laughs at them, because they are so rapt in Satan.