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Fanning: Air Force Having Trouble Keeping Pilots, and Pay Isnít the Problem
Defense One ^ | 11-14-2013 | Tom Shoop

Posted on 11/16/2013 9:13:16 AM PST by Sequoyah101

The Air Force is offering big bonuses to keep its pilots in the service, but they’re not taking them because budget constraints are forcing the service to limit both current flying hours and opportunities to fly the next generation of aircraft,...

(Excerpt) Read more at defenseone.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 113th; airforce; bhodod; defensespending; fkyinghours; gay; nextgenerationplanes; pilots; usaf
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It also isn't JUST flying hours. A lot of the reason pilots are leaving first chance they get is working for this queer, Eric Fanning. A peace time military is bad enough though peace is what we all desire.

At least there is some recognition that morale is horrible but this queer won't do what is needed to fix it and IT is not all about money. Much of it could be fixed by allowing the air crews to train for their mission and leave all the other crap out. It could also be helped along by promoting leaders in whom the air crews have confidence and letting them all just do their main job.

This asshat tool, Eric Fanning, is one of the highest ranking queers in this administration, highest ranking admitted queer in the DoD. He was put in place to make the USAF into a gay house or destroy it. He is destroying it. He is a humiliating insult to the MEN who fly combat airplanes into harms way for a living and obastard intends for him to be an insult to them. Most would leave in disgust right now if they were not indentured. Make no mistake, they are indentured for at least 11 long years as pilots. I believe most or many are looking for any way out they can find. They are balancing though and hoping somehow there will be better days one day and so they are trying to play the game to preserve their chosen profession and careers that they have given so much to.

Old airplanes, failed programs like the F-35 and air tanker replacement, reduced flying hours, force feeding of social engineering every day (it isn't enough to just keep your mouth shut, you are expected to celebrate, endorse and encourage the queer and feminist agenda), nanny state type restrictions on their every action, constant threats of reductions in pay, benefits, mission, daunting and burgeoning paperwork mostly just for its own sake that is done by flight crews because there are no enlisted people to do it. Flying is what they joined to do and it no longer offsets the huge part of the job that just sucks.

Most would chuck it I think but making matters worse they are trapped. It is like being in prison. What they are in is not what they agreed to do 8 or 10 years ago when they signed on and they won't be so deceitful to recommend their profession to younger MEN. It is hard work flying combat aircraft and there has to be a desirable reward for the effort... there is less and less and less every day now.

Like everything else in this administration in these days it is all about politics, a communist ideology and a liberal Godless social agenda.

1 posted on 11/16/2013 9:13:16 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101
if you're a man, how do you work for such a person as Fanning....really, the way the military is pushing homosexuality anymore, why would any red blooded American young man want to join?...

there's always been gay men in the military....they probably did just as good as heteros....but they kept their private lives private...

now its full scale open....who wants that?....

between obammy and hagel and fanning, why would any parent allow their kids to join the military?....we have to just divest ourselves of that corruption until someone of character comes along...

2 posted on 11/16/2013 9:18:45 AM PST by cherry (.in the time of universal deceit, telling the truth is revolutionary.....)
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To: Sequoyah101

Soviet Air Force, Hope and Change Perestroika Russia, 1989 Part Deux. Obamao is an American Mike Gorbachev.


3 posted on 11/16/2013 9:19:53 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Sequoyah101

Starting pay for airline pilots sucks, and jobs are pretty scarce. Not like it used to be.


4 posted on 11/16/2013 9:21:00 AM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Sequoyah101

When your Impostor-In-Chief is Nazifying the military what do you expect good and decent people in that organization to do?


5 posted on 11/16/2013 9:21:36 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: SeaHawkFan

And this is yet another reason the pilots are stuck. Sadly, they are not being told what valuable leadership and decision making skills they have or how to market them. Of course, the economy just plain sucks as well further adding to their fears of leaving and their frustration in being stuck.

Their work ethic and experience is impeccable. They are trained, conditioned and experienced to make 100% binding decisions in split seconds with minimal information and to live with all the consequences. They have the proven ability to learn and retain detailed and complex information that is fed to them from not just a fire hose but a water cannon. They are expected to not only learn but just about memorize a stack of operating manuals that would fill an 8’ table just to fly one aircraft system. They manage enlisted men and other often higher ranking officers every day with relative aplomb. Yet they are not sure what value they can be on the outside of the USAF. I suppose this goes for many of our other young men of the military.

Sadly, they often come out to start a career over because so many on the outside don’t have a clue what they have done or are capable of. They are placed in the queue behind younger much less experienced people and kept behind them. They are older, much wiser and often much more intelligent but their younger “superiors” know this and do all they can to push them back down until they finally give up. Jealousy is an ugly thing.


6 posted on 11/16/2013 9:34:44 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101

You absolutely nailed Sequoyah!


7 posted on 11/16/2013 9:34:59 AM PST by Lake Living
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To: Sequoyah101
No pilots, no cans of whoopass dropping from the air (or freight, or intel, or equipment, or...).

0bama is doing a great job as CIC. Just ask the mullahs in Persia, or AQ in Syria, or Putin in Russia, or...

5.56mm

8 posted on 11/16/2013 9:41:05 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Sequoyah101
"...failed programs like the F-35..."

I get that you don't like this program, but spreading your own opinions around as "fact"only reflects on your credibility...poorly.

9 posted on 11/16/2013 9:46:58 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: M Kehoe

“failed programs like the F-35”

Cost overruns and delays, yes. Failure?

The Marines say they love the F35B.


10 posted on 11/16/2013 9:50:49 AM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: rbmillerjr

“The Marines say they love the F35B.”

The Marines had better say it...or else. Zero will punish those that do not tow the official line.


11 posted on 11/16/2013 9:53:35 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: rbmillerjr; SZonian
You meant that for SZonian, right?

5.56mm

12 posted on 11/16/2013 9:53:41 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Sequoyah101

It isn’t just pilots. I am seeing all kinds of AF officers leave, mainly for the social engineering and political crap. Besides, most AF officers have technical skills that command nice salaries on the outside.


13 posted on 11/16/2013 9:54:31 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: SZonian

Is it a successful program then?

From a pilot’s perspective, it is probably not yet successful. I would think pilots would grade a program by the number of seats available to sit in.

According to LockheedMartin, they have only built just over 100.

So there are still not very many seats for a pilot to sit in.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/july/130725ae_100th-f-35-in-final-production.html


14 posted on 11/16/2013 9:56:03 AM PST by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
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To: cherry

So when has the USAF ever been a military organization?

Signed: USN Retired


15 posted on 11/16/2013 10:05:02 AM PST by Afterguard (Liberals will let you do anything you want, as long as it's mandatory.)
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To: M Kehoe; Sequoyah101

Sorry, meant for Sequoyah.


16 posted on 11/16/2013 10:08:27 AM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: Afterguard

And so it goes.


17 posted on 11/16/2013 10:09:13 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Afterguard
When was part of the USA dear sir.

HTB's Husband USA Retired

18 posted on 11/16/2013 10:09:35 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Afterguard
So when has the USAF ever been a military organization?

I was going to ping some Zoomies, but then I can't stay on for a mud wrestling contest.

And what is worse, I agree with you...

INCOMING!

5.56mm

19 posted on 11/16/2013 10:10:15 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: cherry

Have long suspected that much of the pomp and pageantry in any military originated with closeted gay — and often quite capable — soldiers.


20 posted on 11/16/2013 10:10:41 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: cherry
. . . there's always been gay men in the military....they probably did just as good as heteros....but they kept their private lives private...

now its full scale open....who wants that?....

They have to identify them in order to promote them.

For all those who argue with me on the benefits of "serving openly gay", I ask just one question:

How long do you think I would last in any job if I strutted about declaring that I enjoyed having sex with females in the missionary position at least 2-3 times per week?

It may be true and it may be normal, but it would guarantee only two things:

  1. My employer would find an excuse to terminate me.
  2. The Mrs. would take a frying pan to my head, have me sleeping on the couch or both.

    Note: An affirmative action military promotion is NOT on the above list.

21 posted on 11/16/2013 10:13:28 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Sequoyah101
The country continues to rot from the inside.

"The great oak tree had stood on a hill over the Hudson, in a lonely spot of the Taggart estate. Eddie Willers, aged seven, liked to come and look at that tree. It had stood there for hundreds of years, and he thought it would always stand there. Its roots clutched the hill like a fist with fingers sunk into the soil, and he thought that if a giant were to seize it by the top, he would not be able to uproot it, but would swing the hill and the whole of the earth with it, like a ball at the end of a string. He felt safe in the oak tree’s presence; it was a thing that nothing could change or threaten; it was his greatest symbol of strength.

One night, lightning struck the oak tree. Eddie saw it the next morning. It lay broken in half, and he looked into its trunk as into the mouth of a black tunnel. The trunk was only an empty shell; its heart had rotted away long ago; there was nothing inside – just a thin gray dust that was being dispersed by the whim of the faintest wind. The living power had gone, and the shape it left had not been able to stand without it."
(Atlas Shrugged)

22 posted on 11/16/2013 10:14:11 AM PST by Flick Lives (The U.S. is dead to me.)
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To: M Kehoe

What’s the old joke...

Marine colonel asks a private “what time is it”

Private: 9 o’clock sir!

Colonel: Son this is the Marines! As a Marine the time is 900 hrs. Army is 0:900. Air Force. When Mickeys little hand is on 9 and big hand is on 12! But it is certainly not 9 o’clock!!


23 posted on 11/16/2013 10:22:13 AM PST by saleman
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To: SZonian

spoken like a true f-35 acolyte.

Never presented it as fact. This is an opinion board as well.

Nonetheless... even this article appears to be chock full of FACTS about delays, cost over runs, reduced performance expectations and results, higher life cycle costs etc. Many of the problems are created by DoD (including USAF) procurement practices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

Program nearly doubled in price: Cost is 70% higher than planned.

Years overdue: In 2001 DoD said it would be combat capable in 2010. It is now at least SEVEN years behind schedule.

Marines target for combat ready is now 12/2015
USAF 12/2016
USN 2/2019

This article may be from what some consider a spurious souce but seems pretty factual: http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/fy2012/pdf/dod/2012f35jsf.pdf

It may eventually be a fine aircraft but it is a badly run program and that FACT will not change.


24 posted on 11/16/2013 10:30:21 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Pikachu_Dad

Is it a FAILURE? There are problems, but again, is it a FAILURE?

Maybe it’s such a failure that SK is on the verge of purchasing 60 of the aircraft...some failure...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/korea-joint-chiefs-set-back-140332396.html

Pilots, especially fighter jocks are egoists to the max...I really don’t care if there are that many F35’s for them to sit in, they still have aircraft to fly.

They’re probably throwing hissy fits since they weren’t selected as cadre for the training bases, fighter wings etc.


25 posted on 11/16/2013 10:37:07 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Sequoyah101

Some of the technology on the F35 surpasses that of the F22Raptor...which controls the skies and isn’t even sold overseas.

The Raptor has incorporated some F35 technology to make it even more dominant.

As far as cost overruns and delays, this is what happens when you lose your defense industrial base,less competition, less capacity....higher costs and more time to operational.

The same people who moan for less defense spending, were told of these potential problems.

The F35 is being bought by our most trusted allies...to take on Chinese stealth generation aircraft...so apparently, our Asian allies like it.


26 posted on 11/16/2013 10:37:48 AM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: Sequoyah101

FU...and your “acolyte” ad hominem...delays don’t equal FAILURE.

So go and find the rest of your little lying, exaggerating and outright petulant cabal and enjoy you circle jerk.


27 posted on 11/16/2013 10:38:47 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Sequoyah101

I think the mess that is happening at Shaw AFB right now is another reason. There are things in that TSGT’s story that don’t add up to me.


28 posted on 11/16/2013 10:54:36 AM PST by saminfl
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To: SZonian

ac·o·lyte (k-lt)
n.
1. One who assists the celebrant in the performance of liturgical rites.
2. A devoted follower or attendant.

Oh my, we are a bitter aren’t we? Do you have any more dull knives in your bag of epithets?

Some people are destined to fix things and only a select few are chosen to fly them.


29 posted on 11/16/2013 10:57:40 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101
He is a humiliating insult to the MEN who fly combat airplanes into harms way for a living

What do the female pilots think?

30 posted on 11/16/2013 11:00:14 AM PST by ansel12 ( Democrats-"a party that since antebellum times has been bent on the dishonoring of humanity.)
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To: Sequoyah101

This pick up stakes and leave mentality, will wind up doing to the military just what it did to California.

When are my fellow Conservatives going to learn, that surrendering territory to the Left, is not a gain. It is simply a surrender, and it is the same thing in the long run as painting yourself into a corner.

Man, when to we take a stand and fight back? Lets start retaking territory unless we desire to see the Left’s goals realized.


31 posted on 11/16/2013 12:10:05 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Obama, the Democrat Party, the Left in the U. S., have essentially become the 4th Reich.)
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To: rbmillerjr

With cost over-runs and engineering failures, and a platform that is overweight and loses LO capability when it carries an operational CAS load-out, yes, in my opinion it is a failed program.

Fixes are on the way, costly, but they are improving the platform.

The tanker replacement program is a “failure,” please explain the facts to back that up, please, as I read no reports saying the -46 is anywhere near late or incapable of the mission.

Thanks.


32 posted on 11/16/2013 2:57:11 PM PST by Hulka
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To: Afterguard

Oh, a little inter-service banter. . .but remember this, the Navy, it’s not just a job. . .it’s a silly job (and one wonders about a flying missions where the highlight is the landing). . .and somehow men that hanker to be trapped aboard a ship, surrounded by 5,000 hot sweaty guys. . .well, Obambi is so proud (”pride” is a big thing in certain quarters).

Cheers.

;-)


33 posted on 11/16/2013 3:00:25 PM PST by Hulka
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To: Sequoyah101

Since obama has been occupying The white House , from what I read, the Armed Forces have been catering to homosexuals. Let them fill the vacancy.


34 posted on 11/16/2013 3:01:09 PM PST by sport
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To: rbmillerjr

“so apparently, our Asian allies like it”

They like it because the F-22 is not for sale internationally.


35 posted on 11/16/2013 3:02:44 PM PST by Hulka
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To: Hulka

“Fixes are on the way, costly, but they are improving the platform.”

LOL...only about halfway through the testing phase.


36 posted on 11/16/2013 4:06:44 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: Hulka

I am referring to the procurement fiasco that began, as I recall, with an plan to lease the airplanes in 2002. This was followed by claims of impropriety in the bid process, a protest by Boeing and some assistant sec of the AF being cashiered. The details are murky but the whole of the replacement program has been delayed by this program mismanagement and we hang by a thread for sufficient tankers.

The -46 is a reasonable airplane and should do the job it needs to do to replace the 135 and -10 but it was needed long ago. The failure is that aircraft, much needed years ago, have not yet been supplied.

This excerpt from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KC-X

The current KC-X program follows earlier attempts by the USAF to procure a new tanker. A 2002 plan had the USAF leasing Boeing KC-767 tankers, followed by a 2003 modification where the USAF would buy most of the KC-767 aircraft and lease several more of them. Corruption investigations revealed wrongdoing in the award of the contract and the contract was canceled in 2005, setting the stage for the KC-X program.


37 posted on 11/16/2013 4:32:10 PM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Hulka

“loses LO capability when it carries an operational CAS load-out”

Look at the entire integrated system. If the F35 is in full external capacity, you don’t need Low Observable. Is the A10 low observable? NO.

The F22 Raptor is the best ever air dominance fighter and will clear the skies. The F35 is for strike and defeating A2/AD threats.

Once we have air dominance and access, both will complete the strike and close air support missions.


38 posted on 11/16/2013 4:47:00 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: Sequoyah101

And, they cannot stand the CinC. Neither can I.


39 posted on 11/16/2013 6:55:42 PM PST by jch10 (Joe Wilson, SC, is my hero.)
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To: jch10

That just about goes without saying. Can’t stand is a way too mild for me.


40 posted on 11/16/2013 7:03:21 PM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101
It also isn't JUST flying hours. A lot of the reason pilots are leaving first chance they get is working for this queer, Eric Fanning. A peace time military is bad enough though peace is what we all desire.

They probably get disciplined for getting a lock during war games and saying, "Gonna shove one up his ass". Applying PC standards to fighter pilots is akin to suffocating them and removing their stress vents which keep them sane and competent.

41 posted on 11/17/2013 3:02:27 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: rbmillerjr

The selling point was the F-35 would be LO.

It will not in most configurations, especially USMC configurations.


42 posted on 11/17/2013 10:12:04 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Sequoyah101

Oh, I get what you are saying; the program bidding process was flawed, not the actual program (tanker) itself.

The lease was a crime, worked out between very senior Boeing execs (went to jail) and a corrupt AF Sec trolling for a Boeing job for her, her daughter and her daughter’s husband.

The Sec was prosecuted, the daughter fired (woefully incompetent recent college grad hired at a senior executive level), but the husband is a good engineer and remains with Boeing.

The crime was discovered when internal Boeing people turned in the leadership for the violations.


43 posted on 11/17/2013 10:17:43 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Hulka

Yes, the procurement process has been a failure. It should have been pretty simple to get a much needed tanker replacement in a whole lot less time than it took.

Pretty shameful affair wasn’t it?

I still don’t think much of the F-35 though. It is a force fit. Every time someone defends it they have to make excuses for it. e.g. “it can carry a bigger load externally but it is no longer LO”. It does not do what it was supposed to do. It is also hurt by short range and say what you may about engine reliability, the Navy and their pilots liked the Scooter but would have liked it a whole lot more if it had two engines. What makes it more insulting is that Lockheed lobbied to shut down their own F-22 production run in favor of the much more profitable F-35. They did it for money and no other reason. I can’t imagine there was not some hanky panky going on there as well.


44 posted on 11/17/2013 10:33:18 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101

Good points, though I disagree about the shutting of the F-22 line.


45 posted on 11/17/2013 10:45:47 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Hulka

Point taken though I feel more research into the matter would suggest otherwise. It was a furball of agendas though and so just about anything could have happened.

Thank you for a civil debate of the issues. Let’s both declare victory and move on to something else?


46 posted on 11/17/2013 11:37:10 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101

Cheers, my FRiend, and see you around the threads.


47 posted on 11/17/2013 12:14:50 PM PST by Hulka
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To: Hulka

“The selling point was the F-35 would be LO.
It will not in most configurations, especially USMC configurations.”

I kept up to date on F22 and F35 capabilities early in the process. I haven’t kept ujp with every update on the aircraft, but all I recall is that the designation for the F35 went from VLO to LO...Very Low Observable to Low Observable.

I have read nothing that the Marine F35B variant is not LO.

Perhaps there is new info out there and I haven’t read it.

If you have and links to this, I’d love to see it.


48 posted on 11/17/2013 8:08:20 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: rbmillerjr

No worries.

External load-outs for CAS mission is part of its major LO failing.
The F-35 can’t carry a munition load for CAS solely internally, not for a loitering multiple-pass CAS mission, and this means it loses any sort of “LO” capability.
(”LO” meaning 5th Generation.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouT1qtgY9qQ
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/february/120220ae_f-35a-conducts-external-weapons-test.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pictures-f-35-bulks-up-with-external-weapons-load-368548/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/joint-strike-fighter-13-flaws/ (”Most ominously, the report mentions — but does not describe — a “classified” deficiency. “Dollars to doughnuts it has something to do with stealth,” aviation guru Bill Sweetman wrote. In other words, the F-35 might not be as invisible to radar as prime contractor Lockheed Martin said it would be.”)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-35-design.htm: “”But the F-35. . .and it is not as stealthy as the F-22.”

Many more links out there, but the fact is, it must carry on external hard-points, JASSM and JDAMs or SDBs to have a CAS weapons load. . .and that means external carry and that means loss of LO.


49 posted on 11/18/2013 7:56:20 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Hulka

I’ll read these, as I like to keep an open mind.

But as I’ve stated before, once you are in a close air support mission, there is no need for Low Observable, we would have air superiority, and thus we would load with max external weapons for that role. Our A10 CAS aircraft was not LO. The F35 is LO when only using internal loads. And with it’s advanced AESA and DAS, it could bug out if an unexpected threat were to come.

So, I don’t see your overall point.


50 posted on 11/18/2013 8:05:17 AM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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