Skip to comments.Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa
Posted on 09/25/2013 11:17:07 PM PDT by Olog-hai
Lech Wałęsa has called for Poland to unite with Germany to form one European state, despite the bloody history between the two countries.
The Nobel Peace Prize winner and former Polish president, whose Solidarity trade union played a key role in bringing an end to the Cold War, said the world had changed and needed new ways of organizing itself.
We need to expand economic and defense cooperation and other structures to create one state from Poland and Germany in Europe, he said.
Speaking to Russias Itar-Tass news agency, Mr. Wałęsa, 69, said national boundaries were not as relevant as they once were.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
First East Germany. Now the Poles want in. I suppose it’s just a matter of time before the Austrians and Czechs come knocking next!
Will they still speak Austrian?
Worked out so well last time
Iv always assumed the Poles hated Germans..........and Russians
wow i must rethink this whole thing
“Iv always assumed the Poles hated Germans”
They must like their money. There are two Poles on Germany’s World Cup soccer team.
There is a German, and a Russian soldier, which one does the Pole shoot first?
The German, of course.....business before pleasure.
During the recent Olympics in London, there was a chap carrying a long fiberglass rod down the street. A passerby stopped him and asked, “are you a pole vaulter”?
“No, German,” he replied. “But, how did you know my name is Valter”?
Walesa could just move to Germany.
Would be a lot easier - LoL!
“They had one thing in common they both hated the Jews.”
That’s messed up. The reason Poland had so many Jews was because they had welcomed them when others didn’t, and when the Nazis and Soviets invaded the Poles didn’t have their Jews wearing stars for easy identification. Many Poles helped Jews and many were killed by the same Nazis.
I’m neither Polish or Jewish, but you do both a great disservice with that comment.
This will make Putin nervous...for those who hate Putin for punking Obama
Nothing makes Russians more nervous than Germany so close to the Russian border....with the Poles as allies
Germany is the economic leader in Europe....and Poland is the most successful of the former Commie bloc. Probably make more than Russia nervous
They can start with Breslau...
And the time before that.
-— Iv always assumed the Poles hated Germans..........and Russians
wow i must rethink this whole thing -—
My Polish dad sure as hell did, understandably. Half his family was wiped out in the war. Maybe time changes things, but I can’t imagine this view being popular.
I can understand a free trade agreement, but that’s about it.
What a dumb idea.
>>Thats messed up. The reason Poland had so many Jews was because they had welcomed them when others didnt, and when the Nazis and Soviets invaded the Poles didnt have their Jews wearing stars for easy identification. Many Poles helped Jews and many were killed by the same Nazis.<<
Most Poles were quite happy to see the Germans haul the Jews away, and they were quick to loot the empty houses.
And then there’s this:
“In Jedwabne, by George Will”:
And then there’s this:
LOUIS CK - Schindler’s List - GOODBYE, JEWS!
Walesa is and has always been a damn idiot. Most likely he was a commie agent put in charge of the opposition to sabotage it.
If you don't believe me, just think... the town was half Jewish and half non-Jewish, according to Gross half of non-Jewish men (so ~12.5% of total adult population) forced several times more numerous crowd of people into a barn (size: 15X7 meters !) and burnt them...
Majority of people treat all Holocaust related stories as true by default, which creates a lot of opportunities for scammers like Gross.
When you can give me a logical explanantion as to why Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe (prior to the 1930s) then I’ll take you seriously (Hollywood quotes don’t count as “facts”).
Well if they put their differences aside there would be one economic powerhouse.
>>When you can give me a logical explanantion as to why Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe (prior to the 1930s) then Ill take you seriously (Hollywood quotes dont count as facts).<<
To make it even worse ... do some research on what happened to Jews who managed to survive the war and returned to Poland to try to reclaim their homes. Oftentimes the Polish gentiles would murder them rather than give up their new living quarters.
You also might talk with some Polish gentiles from the time who are still with us. Almost every single one will tell you that Nazi wartime occupation was preferable to Stalinist post-war occupation. That’s gotta make you think.
Perhaps because the Nazis slaughtered the Polish Jews.
My grandfather was shot for refusing to rebuild a bridge blown up by the Polish resistance. My grandmother disappeared, as did an uncle.
How dare you slander the long-suffering Poles who endured Nazism and communism?
“To make it even worse ... do some research on what happened to Jews who managed to survive the war and returned to Poland to try to reclaim their homes. Oftentimes the Polish gentiles would murder them rather than give up their new living quarters.”
You would have to bring that up with the Soviet authorities; they owned Poland for nearly 50 years after the war.
“You also might talk with some Polish gentiles from the time who are still with us. Almost every single one will tell you that Nazi wartime occupation was preferable to Stalinist post-war occupation. Thats gotta make you think.”
I’ve heard that from many Eastern Europeans; they ended up under the butcher of 30 million instead of the butcher of 12 million. As I understand it, the Soviets denied the Jewish survivors access to their properties after the war as well - not nice people.
“How dare you slander the long-suffering Poles who endured Nazism and communism?”
I don’t know if this is sarcasm, but if you read my original post on this thread I believe you’ll see you should be directing that at another person.
>>Ive heard that from many Eastern Europeans; they ended up under the butcher of 30 million instead of the butcher of 12 million. As I understand it, the Soviets denied the Jewish survivors access to their properties after the war as well - not nice people.<<
Well, yes. The truth is that it was not just Germans who hated the Jews. It was practically everybody in Eastern Europe — Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Rumania (they REALLY hated the Jews) and so on. The Holocaust would not have been as “successful” without the cooperation of thousands of people from those nations.
PS: Why do you think so many death camp guards were Ukrainians?
Answer: Because NOBODY in Eastern Europe liked the Jews. No, not the Poles either.
“Answer: Because NOBODY in Eastern Europe liked the Jews. No, not the Poles either.”
They were certainly more tolerant than the rest of Europe; no Monday morning quarterbacking will explain why so many of them chose to live there otherwise. Keep attacking them (despite their own losses in the millions and subsequent enslavement by the Soviet Union); it will warn the rest of the world of the gratitude they can expect in similar straits.
“The Holocaust would not have been as successful without the cooperation of thousands of people from those nations.”
It would have never happened at all if the left hadn’t overturned the Christian monarchies earlier in the 20th century. National Socialism (like Obamunism) had driven Judeo-Christian morality out of the public sphere.
Americans today have to understand that when you remove the Ten Commandments from public building, the public might stop heeding them (especially “Thou Shalt Not Kill”).
>>It would have never happened at all if the left hadnt overturned the Christian monarchies earlier in the 20th century. National Socialism (like Obamunism) had driven Judeo-Christian morality out of the public sphere.<<
You’re probably right.
But the Poles, like most everybody else in Europe, still would have disliked or hated the Jews. Anti-semitism is a pan-European thing.
>>They were certainly more tolerant than the rest of Europe; no Monday morning quarterbacking will explain why so many of them chose to live there otherwise.<<
The Jews didn’t CHOOSE to live in eastern Poland and western Russia; they were ASSIGNED to live there in 1791 when Catherine the Great established the Pale of Settlement. At the time, Poland was under Russian rule. I don’t know a lot about the issue, but from what I gather, Catherine wanted the Jews near enough to provide their skills and talents to the nation; but not near enough to the major cities that they might rouse the rabble against the royal court. This notion you have that the sovereign, benevolent Poles invited their friends the Jews to live among them in flowers and happiness is charming, but fictional. The Poles were neither sovereign nor particularly benevolent. Sorry. Neither they nor the Jews had a choice in the matter. It was the czarina’s doing. If you want to know more, look up the Pale of Settlement.
No worries; I understand.
I guess the most you’ll concede is that Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe because they were the least evil; that’s still messed up. While other European countries had their own SS units (including countries that weren’t even conquered by Germany), Poland never did; they would have never found enough volunteers to staff a platoon.
Don’t let facts get in the way of your bigotry.
>>Dont let facts get in the way of your bigotry.<<
I’m truly sorry my facts about the Poles hurt your feelings.
I’m neither Polish or Jewish; believe me your “facts” mean nothing to me. As an Irishman I tell my children that Poles are our cousins to the east (same faith & humility, similar history dealing with more powerful neighbors); I will continue to do so with pride. I also tell them that the Germans in WWI gave us the rifles to rebel against the “United” Kingdom; to this day friendship exists between the two peoples.
>>I also tell them that the Germans in WWI gave us the rifles to rebel against the United Kingdom; to this day friendship exists between the two peoples.<<
I’m glad you feel kinship and friendship with the Poles. As for me, I appreciate the support they have given the U.S. since 9/11. Have a good weekend.
Thanks; you do the same.
Speaking to Russia's Itar-Tass news agency, Mr. Wałęsa, 69, said national boundaries were not as relevant as they once were.
Britain was never going to give home rule; their continued occupation of the north illustrates that.
I’d rather have Germany review Ireland’s budget than Britain; Germany invested heavily in Ireland over the past 20 years while Britain wanted to keep it as a giant pasture. Ireland’s rebellion wasn’t communist, regardless of what revisionists may say.
Propaganda. Home Rule was a duly-passed Act of Parliament and the only thing that interrupted it was Germany starting WWI. If not for the 1916 rebellion, that act would have gone into force as soon as WWI ended. So it was the rebels that destroyed Home Rule.
Completely false dilemma, “Germany versus Britain”. I take it you don’t believe in an independent Ireland?
It’s absolutely not revisionism that Ireland’s Easter Rising was communistic in nature. Even Lenin called it a communistic revolution, attacking critics of it by saying “no revolution is perfect”. Ignoring James Connolly’s writings on the matter is putting one’s head in the sand.
The Irish wouldn’t have sacrificed their leaders for nothing; Britain was never going to give it up. To this day it is against the law for a Catholic to sit on the throne of England; that speaks volumes.
Neither Germany or Britain is independent anymore; I’d prefer Germany leading the EU than Britain.
How many priests did the rebels kill? That is the hallmark of all communist revolutions...
They did indeed sacrifice their leaders for nothing. Britain did indeed give it up eventually, but it would have happened sooner if not for WWI.
Just like Eamon de Valera sacrificed Ireland’s independence for nothing when he signed the Third Amendment to the Republic’s constitution back in 1972, which puts European law supreme above Irish law. (The Irish were lied to in that referendum also.)
It’s far, far worse and far, far sleazier than one can imagine. (And the priests didn’t die primarily because the rebels failed. People like Bobby Sands expounded the IRA’s goals of a “socialist republic” of Ireland too.)
Here’s another interesting piece. It’s about Polish-Jewish relations today. They do not seem to be good. However, if this is to be believed, you can’t blame the Poles this time.
“Israeli teenagers are a nuisance in Poland”
My own aunt, a devout liberal, complains that many Israeli tourists view the beakfast bar as not just the place for breakfast — it’s also the place to make sandwiches to go for lunch.
Here’s another interesting report:
The problem with Israeli travelers
No matter where you go in the world, Israelis are easily identifiable: theyre rude, impatient and make a lot of noise. Such behavior gives Israel and Jews a bad name. But things dont have to stay that way.
By Yael Miller / Jewish World blogger
I’m not arguing with you now, Kearny. I’m not posting these reports to pass judgment on anybody. I’m just offering them as discussion topics.
As for the bigots, they are happy parroting the New York Times and Obama version of history, you know the "Polish concentration camps" story. The NYT has had something for Poland for decades, and there have been numerous protests about it from their D.C. Embassy and even their Foreign Ministry. The anti-semitism in Eastern Europe is no worse than anti-semitism in American black communities. Oh, and during WWII Jews were being murdered not by some mythical 'Nazis' of unknown origin, but by Germans, OK?!
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