Posted on 08/30/2013 10:39:56 PM PDT by bimboeruption
As head of state at the Vatican, not to mention the leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics, protocol requires visitors to bow to him when they meet him at the Holy See.
But Francis, who has made the forgetting of formalities a trademark of his papacy, bowed when he met a smiling Rania as she visited the Vatican with her husband King Abdullah II on Thursday.
"Up until the 19th century visitors would kiss the pope's shoes, and the tradition is still that all visitors, women included, bow to him, but Francis behaves as he did before he became pope and is not interested in protocol," a senior Vatican official told The Daily Telegraph.
It is not the first time the Pope has eschewed formality when receiving visitors.
When Cristina Kirchner, Argentina's president, met him in March, a day before his formal inauguration, he gave her a kiss after she presented him with a gourd for mate, the traditional Argentine tea.
"Never in my life has a Pope kissed me!", Mrs Kirchner said afterwards.
When she met the pope in July, Brazilian's first female president, Dilma Rousseff took the initiative, kissing Francis on both cheeks.
Francis' bow was just the latest in a series of signs the pope has no time for ceremony.
On Wednesday he showed up in central Rome for a religious ceremony in an unmarked Ford, without the papal flag or number plate, driven by a Vatican gendarme.
He then entered the church carrying his folded mitre tucked under one arm. The incident recalled his carrying a personal briefcase up the steps to the plane on which he flew to Brazil in July.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
LOL, you just prattle on with nothing, you ignored the most important parts of that post.
You must be a terrible teacher.
Romans 13:6-8
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
And remember, Paul was writing to and about the Romans; and the Roman Empire proved itself willing, through sporadic persecutions over a period of 300 years, to burn, crucify, and cut the heads off of Christians.
So I reckon the Pope was both offering the due diplomatic honors, plus the spontaneity of love --- hasn't anybody commented on the fact that he was bowing to a woman? You know, that subset of the human species whom the Muslims customarily treat like shi'ite?
I guess love in Christ --- a pastor's love --- is so rare, some don't even recognize it when they see it. But some do.
“He bowed and kissed the Koran”.
Show me where where he bowed? JPII could barely stand up and could barely walk, stooping over. In other words he “bowed” to everything. The book was being presented to him, looks like he is looking at it to me, not kissing it. Could he have been kissing it, he could have. You can’t tell.
Christianity cannot be forced on people. They have to be ready and only God determines when. Our Blessed Lord didn’t require that pagans follow Him before He healed them. He scandalized the Jewish leaders by dining with sinners. His closest followers were free to betray Him and two did.
By being polite and kind to members of other religions, the pope is not giving approval to what they believe. He is treating them as he would like to be treated. I believe this is called the Golden Rule.
Look around the region. There are hundreds of thousands of Christians in Syria--- mostly from the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Chaldeans --- who are living as exiles there because they were pushed out of Iraq by the chaotic aftermath of our failed Iraq War. Plus Syria itself --- even without the Iraqi refugees --- is about 10% Christian.
If they ALL get pushed out of Syria by the civil war, the only place they can go in the region will probably be Jordan, which (without refugees) is 6% Christian (majority Greek Orthodox, but some Greek and Roman Catholics, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and Protestant denominations).
The Pope is responsible to the six Eastern Catholic patriarchs, plus the rest of these hard-pressed Faithful of the ancient Churches, to provide for their safety and well-being as best he can.
Why's he meeting the the royals of Jordan? Because he is trying to find diplomatic, political, as well as physical support for the suffering Christian people of the Middle East who are faced with extermination.
It's pretty obvious that this is behind his outreach to the largely secular, non-nutzojihadi Jordanian royalty. Is that a good enough reason for you?
“..hey see a leader of another religion bowing to muslims...”
Appearances/symbolism are everything to those ... people.
To stay on topic, your post seems to be a vote supporting the article.
I appreciate your opinion on this, especially given your experience. I think you are on the mark.
I also think it is easier to take a raw steak away from a pit bull than to take away someone’s sense of entitlement of being ticked off about something they feel is their right to be ticked off about.
Matthew 7:6
When you have a Pope who supports homosexual priest in the
church and wants to forgive them for their perversion, bowing
to an anti-christian rag head should be expected.
Francis is the Catholic version of Obama and is in full
support of the homosexual agenda.
“but do Americans”
An American citizen is a sovereign individual and bows to
no one but god. A pope, priest, dictator, king, queen, etc.
is no better than any American citizen and deserve no more
than a handshake if the citizens so wishes.
Let's keep an eye on this Pope-Jordan connection and see how it develops. My prediction: Jordan makes accommodation for exiles from Iraq and Syria.
I thought the article was claiming that the Catholic pope bowing to a Mohammedan Queen was a first, not theories about long term Catholic strategies in the middle east.
Slambat, this view is poorly supported by the facts.
In 2010, Bergoglio(Francis) called on Catholics to oppose the Argentine gay marriage bill, calling it the devil's handiwork. (source).
“Let's not be naïve, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God,” Bergoglio wrote, calling on Catholics to join a protest rally in Buenos Aires.
“We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a move by the Father of Lies which aims to confuse and deceive the children of God.”
Bergoglio went on to say that gay adoption is discriminatory to children: “At stake are the lives of many children who'll be discriminated against in being deprived of the human growth that God wanted to be given through a father and a mother.”
Pope Francis' comments were criticized by Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kircher, who signed the bill into law. The president called such references unproductive and a throwback to the Inquisition.
And this is just like Obama? Did you forget your /s/?
Slambat, this isn't true of all Americans -- and keep in mind that there are all kinds of bows, with varying shades of meaning.
Even as deracinated 21st century Americans, we know there is the stage-bow by actors, musicians, conductors and performers (at the curtain call) and, in martial arts, ceremonial bows used to begin and end practice and competitions, and to show respect to the instructors, the shihan and the sensei.
Hand-kissing of women by men, in formal settings, includes a bow --- I know that if it were done to me, it would not be adoration (!), although there's a courtly WWII vet at church, an usher, who always opens the church door and bows when he sees me coming: don't tell my husband, but maybe he has a crush? :o)
A large-ish chunk of U.S. Christians belong to churches with recognized customs of bowing, and not just toward God, but also toward altars and tabernacles, Bibles and crosses, other consecrated objects, toward the priests and deacons, and toward each other.
I'm not getting encyclopedic here for no reason. I'm just showing that cultures with a rich repertoire of honor and courtesy, both human and divine, may find it much easier to appreciate bowing and recognize gradations of honor, with a great deal depending on context.
Exactly. They omitted the real news.
Just exactly what “honors and dues” do you believe we owe these muslim leaders that you go on to rip about treating their own women like “shi’ite”? What exactly according to you are the tributes we ought to bestow on them?
THEY have ideas at the “dues” and “tributes” we owe them. Jizya, being treated like kaffir, being able to be murdered without issue because we’re not even people, being able to taqiyaa us because lying to non-muslims is fine and is a duty in some cases, being able to force conversions on us or death? Burning the bible if it is found in their countries? Killing people who tell the truth about Mohammed?
It’s funny you talk about giving them their honors and dues when you yourself in your own comments rip them about how they customarily treat about half their people like crap simply for being a certain gender.
I’m sure it goes back to getting more with sugar than salt. I agree with you.
Videos and pictures. He was quite bent over later in life, so a bow could be mistaken by some for sure.
True, in a way his bowing to a woman is defiance of the Islamic protocol IMO to beat and abuse them.
True, happy times.
A certain good example of how Christian men offer women public courtesies. I'm sure Raina will long appreciate being treated like a queen and not like a chattel or a utility.
Not only that, but keep in mind that Jordan is one of the few Arab countries that does not have oil, as well as one of the most water-poor countries in a region where water is worth more than oil. In other words,it is not a wealthy countr. And yet King Abdallah continues to allow the entry of refugees from the ongoing turmoil/Civil War aftermath of "Arab Spring": 63,037 refugees from Iraq, 523,059 from Syria and counting. Many of these refugees are Christians. The Islamists therefore see the Jordanian royals as part of the problem, not part of their hoped-for final solution.
Without the Jordanian royals' support, these Assyrian Orthodox and Chaldean Catholic refugees--- hundreds of thousands of them --- are dead meat.
Therefore continued good relations with the Hashemite Kingdom are essential, if Christianity is going to survive in the region at all.
This is so much more serious, and more complex, than the FReeper LoFo refrain of "Poopy Ol' Pope bows to ragheads."
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