Pope Says He Won't Judge Gay Priests

philly.com ^ | 7/29/13 | Nicole Winfield

[SoFloFreeper]

Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip...

"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil.

He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.

[GeronL]

Super FAIL

NAMBLA chapters will be opening in Catholic churches with the next Pope I guess. Hey, maybe the next Pope will be gay, you never know.

[don-o]

And the descent into the sewer is complete. Congrats!

[Syncro]

Thanks for the heads up, metmom.

Looks like an interesting thread, I’ll try to find time to read it later.

[nitzy]

It seems to me you are playing semantics.

Are there any other inclinations that are "objectively disordered" which your pope has publicly announced "is not the problem" and those who have the disordered inclination "should be integrated into society"?

Or is this the first type of "disordered inclination" that he has treated in this manner?

[markomalley]

Um, I am loathe to trust the media....

Good for you...very perceptive.

Exact transcript:

«Si scrive tanto della lobby gay. Io finora non ho trovato in Vaticano chi ha scritto “gay” sulla carta d’identità. Bisogna distinguere tra l’essere gay, avere questa tendenza, e fare lobby. Le lobby, tutte le lobby, non sono buone. Se una persona è gay e cerca il Signore con buona volontà, chi sono io per giudicarlo? Il Catechismo della Chiesa cattolica insegna che le persone gay non si devono discriminare, ma si devono accogliere. Il problema non è avere questa tendenza, il problema è fare lobby e questo vale per questo come per le lobby d’affari, le lobby politiche, le lobby massoniche».

Source: La Stampa

Auto-Translation:

“There is so much being written about the gay lobby. I haven’t met anyone in the Vatican yet who has “gay” written on their identity cards. There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying. Lobbies are not good. If a gay person is in eager search of God, who am I to judge them? The Catholic Church teaches that gay people should not be discriminated against; they should be made to feel welcome. Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem and this goes for any type of lobby, business lobbies, political lobbies and Masonic lobbies.”

Source: La Stampa

[FourtySeven]

Do you have a thread relating to this that was posted earlier?

Is that the only definition for a Breaking News thread? I ask because I did pretty much that (posted the first article about a story) when I first got here but was harangued for it because it wasn't also a story "of national interest".

[demshateGod]

I’m no Pope supporter, but I don’t think any “Christian” can judge Sodomites outside of what the Word of God says, which is explicit in its condemnation. So, we don’t judge Sodomites, the Word of God has already judged them.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Your comments show fairness and good will, so I'm going to try to clarify with a comment or two of my own.

I think the Pope (and the Catechism, for that matter) are referring to the duty not to impose unjust discrimination or isolation on people who are, through no fault of their own, struggling with a sexual disorder.

I had a guy in my RCIA class (adults preparing to be received into the Catholic Church) who I thought might be gay or post-gay or gay-curious or something. I thought this because I noticed a couple of gay-themed book on the back seat of his car (not porn, but what's almost worse, Andrew Sullivan) and then I looked up his Facebook page and there was more circumstantial evidence. Just innocent chat, but looks like he's in a somewhat gay social milieu.

"Matt" never brought up sexuality in our class discussions, but he knew what the Church teaches. He once said, rather obliquely, that some of his friends think he's crazy for wanting to join the Catholic Church, inasmuch as "if he had been a 'cradle Catholic,' he'd have left it by now."

I always make sure my RCIA students know what Christ teaches us through Divine and Natural Law about sex, gender, love and marriage. But I didn't think it my quasi-pastoral duty to initiate the subject with him individually ("Hey Matt, d'you like males or females or what??"), any more than I would interrogate our married converts personally on whether they use contraceptives, --- any more than I would research any of my students about his or her psychiatric history or arrest record.

"Matt" entered the Church two Easters ago, and though he moved out of state, I have kept in touch from time to time. I went to his Facebook page today, and guess what he had there?

Pope Francis on gays: "Who am I to judge any person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?"

I put in my own "like" and added this comment:

That "like" of mine is multi-tasking: I "like" the Pope, the Catechism, Blessed Mary Ever Virgin, the recent extravaganza at Copacabana, and you.

And just one minute ago --- I kid you not! --- he shot back with a "like."

:o) Just another person of good will who seeks the Lord!

It would be wrong to subject him to unjust discrimination, e.g. saying he can't receive the Sacraments (which are good for us all, especially regular Confession) or saying he can't be in the choir or some such thing.

He is, as far as I can see, progressing toward perfection. This is being transformed in Christ. We all have a ways to go.

[demshateGod]

LOL.

[who knows what evil?]

I’m not Catholic, but I think it would be good advice for the Pope to quit using the Alinsky term ‘gay’...they should be referred to as homosexuals or sodomites. Not gay.

[dadfly]

as pope, it doesn’t matter what he “meant.” it’s becoming clearer each day that we Chistians will have little help from this pope in our battle “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

i hope and pray that the man wakes up and begins to think before he speaks.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Bull-compost. Neither "the Pope" nor "the Church" has approved of, accepted or condoned homosexual conduct. Review his words, you know, what's actually between the quotes.

I remember when FReepers used to be sharp as razors about analyzing media spin. Now it's like people are lolling their tongues out there Scoopy-Doo-like, ready to grab the next Scooby-treat from AP and swallow it whole.

[Mrs. Don-o]

YOU sound pretty Christian to me :o)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Pope Francis just reiterated, in so many words, that homosexual acts are sinful.

That constitutes the kind of straight-talking judgment we are all supposed to make.

As I understand it.

[Truth2012]

That doesn’t change my faithful opinion about what the Catholic church is teaching people.

[dragnet2]

What is with it with Catholics that are always saying things that don't mean what is said but mean what the Church says it means?

The reason why some are not specific in their statements?

Occasionally, but not as often was one would think, what is said might not mean what is heard.

In addition, it's because if one does or does not say what they mean, it often does not mean what is specifically said or not said.

[ALPAPilot]

From the Catechism:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yeah, that "Homosexual acts are sinful" theme is really going to ingratiate him to the LGBT apparat.

[Truth2012]

Sorry, in my opinion it sounds as if they are pushing a social gospel, and in my understanding and experience a social gospel does not lead to any victory over the darkness.

I believe it is you, who is refusing to analyze this, with any amount of discernment, because of your worship of the Catholic religion, over the Word of God.

This is like saying I can not condem a glutton, who seeks God and is on a diet.

We are designed to acknowlsege all of our sin, and hand them over to God.

Yes, Homosexuality is a sin, therefore confress and repent because the kingdom of God is near.

Saying ,as long as the sinner has hate in heart but doesn’t act on it- IS FINE WITH ME, says that there is no need for that transformation we read about in Romans and Galatians.

We are to be transformed, reborn, made new- letting the old man die, seeking to become perfect like Christ. The homosexual needs to change his heart and be transformed.

It is very clear. And if the Pope has not been chosen to judge what is right... WHY is he the Pope?

Men and women are send to Judge what is right. Was that not the role of the Pope in the first place?

What sort of leadership is this? (Leadership of a social group, handing out a social gospel that is no different thatn the emergent church movement.)

Are these people victorious over the darkness- look no further than Rick Warren to find out. These people are cut from the same cloth.

Willing misleading you, or woefully ignorant.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"You gotta be Someone Special to grasp divine truth ab initio. No, the Holy Spirit couldn’t possibly be moving among the hoi polloi...."

C'mon, HTRN, you know better than that. We know we all received the Holy Spirit at Baptism. We know the Father will give the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks. We know St. John the Baptist (or shall we call him St. John the Fetus?) was given the Holy Spirit even in the womb.

Can't hardly be more hoi polloi than that.