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The US's Stealth Fighter (F-35) Is Too Heavy and Slow
Vice.com ^ | Adam Clark Estes

Posted on 07/03/2013 2:05:52 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants

The Pentagon's pursuit of the Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter jet has been a heartbreaking one. If you're a tax payer, the program's estimated $1 trillion price tag probably breaks your heart a little bit. If you're an aviation enthusiast, the constant whittling away of the do-it-all aircraft's features, which in many cases actually amounts to adding weight and taking away maneuverability, must hurt a little bit, too.

If you're just an everyday American, though, you should be downright shattered that after a decade and a fortune spent, the F-35 will actually be more vulnerable than the aircraft it's replacing. At this point, the Pentagon is literally rewriting its rulebook so that the dumbed-down super jet will pass muster.

The Defense Department's annual weapons testing report reveals that the military actually adjusted the performance specifications for the consistently-underperforming line of F-35 fighter jets. In other words, they couldn't get the jets to do what they were supposed to do, so they just changed what they were supposed to do.

(Excerpt) Read more at motherboard.vice.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; aviation; defensespending; f35; lockheedmartin; stealth; waste
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Might stress the airframe too much.


61 posted on 07/03/2013 5:25:28 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: beelzepug

The F-111 was the one aircraft the Russians feared.


62 posted on 07/03/2013 5:33:51 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: OneWingedShark

Charcoal is mostly carbon. I suggest an experiment tomorrow, if you have time, to see if charcoal burns.

Carbon Dioxide is carbon burned.


63 posted on 07/03/2013 5:43:43 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: The Unknown Republican

The problem was the Air Force wanted a subsonic bomber, and the Navy wanted a supersonic interceptor.

The Air Force would use an aircraft with a thin skin, and variable wing sweep and high lift devices to give a combination of low speed takeoff, high payload, and long range.

The Navy would use an aircraft with a thick skin (for supersonic flight) and variable sweep and high lift devices to give low wind over deck speeds and long loiter time.

The Navy never demanded a capsule ejection system for any aircraft but the F-111B. The F-14 never met the F-111B’s required loiter time at 600 nm from the carrier even at zero nm from the carrier.

The Navy killed the F-111B by the tried and true method of over specifying.


64 posted on 07/03/2013 5:49:49 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

65 posted on 07/03/2013 5:57:09 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Stealth is a family of technologies. Coatings can do some (SR-71 & F117). Shape is a bit better with fly-by-wire coupled controls. If you begin with a no -stealthy airframe there are very real limits to how much stealth you can achieve.


66 posted on 07/03/2013 6:05:17 PM PDT by Tallguy (Hunkered down in Pennsylvania)
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To: The Unknown Republican; pfflier

I knew the EF-111 was quite successful in its role and also that the FB-111 took part in the raid on Libya back in the ‘80s but I don’t think the Air Force never really gave the plane the credit it apparently deserved.

I didn’t mean to criticize the Aardvark at all, in fact, in 1968 when I was stationed at Ft. Benning, Ga. an F-111 did a high speed, low-level pass over the airfield, followed by a full power climb-out till all you could see was a ball of fire in the sky. The noise was deafening. Talk about impressive.


67 posted on 07/03/2013 6:11:21 PM PDT by beelzepug (if any alphabets are watchin', I'll be coming home right after the meetin')
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To: dalereed

The SR-71 was not built on a production line. Neither was the first P-51 which was a flying prototype. The F-35 is in pre-production phase. This is where they iron out the kinks (hopefully) while they arrive at the first production bloc configuration. There is a lot of plant layout work being done simultaneously as production ramps up.

The program is struggling, no doubt.


68 posted on 07/03/2013 6:15:22 PM PDT by Tallguy (Hunkered down in Pennsylvania)
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To: UCANSEE2

What a beauty. I love the sound of that baby.


69 posted on 07/03/2013 6:16:45 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (To stay calm during these tumultuous times, I take Damitol. Ask your Doctor if it's right for you.)
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To: donmeaker

I guess with upgrade packages you never know.


70 posted on 07/03/2013 7:11:07 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

The future is hard to predict.

The A-10 was designed for the rudders to hide the exhaust... but better infra-red guided missiles came out soon after, and the newer ones could lock onto the aircraft inlets.

There are two kinds of wars. One is against a near peer competitor. Think WWI, WWII, and perhaps Korea after the ChiComs got in with Russians flying the Nork planes.

Then there are the colonial wars, against (as Black Adder put it) natives armed with sharp pieces of melon.

A lot of systems are designed for the first, but end up getting quite a following when they perform well against the second.

“When all else fails,
We have got
The Maxim Gun,
And they have not.”


71 posted on 07/03/2013 7:15:29 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: beelzepug

I grew up just south of Plattsburg AFB, and they would roar down Lake Champlain....

Heck of a plane, and tough for anone to stop. It had problems: The inlets kept being moved out, and the supersonic range kept going down and down.

The Air Force didn’t care. The 300 NM supersonic Range requirement (slick) was left over from the F-105 and its job to throw a nuclear bomb, roll over and run away. They really didn’t anticipate the F-111 being used like that, but didn’t want to do the paperwork to end the requirement because of the bad publicity it would have given.


72 posted on 07/03/2013 7:19:11 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Rather, the things that make a good fighter are more complex now.

As MSgt Mac said, if you learned about Energy Maneuverability from Boyd, you are about 40 years behind the learning curve.

Imagine if you tried to field a WWI army in time for WWII. That is only 20 years difference, and the pace of technology and military change is faster now. Imagine trying to get massive stocks of artillery ammunition forward while your lines were being cut by fighter bombers, your factories were flattened by WWII bombers, and your attacking spearheads were rolled over by medium tanks with half tracks.

Got to keep up with the times, or admit ignorance and go home.


73 posted on 07/03/2013 7:24:31 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: dalereed

And they had an A-12 Oxcart to start from.


74 posted on 07/03/2013 7:26:22 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

The F22 has supercruise which help protect it from heat seekers, the F35 doesn’t and will light up the sensors in after burner. The F-35 probably should have been a smaller, single-engine version of the F22 IMO, with vectored thrust and all the goodies.


75 posted on 07/03/2013 7:27:32 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: The Antiyuppie
Good point and they clearly violated Kelly Johnson's rule to make a jack of all trades.

The thing is, every airplane is a compromise. The problem with single mission machines is that mission isn't usually the mission of the day.

Look at the evolution of the F-16, the lightweight champ that took the belt in several more weight classes the older it got. Such is the way of an aging true fighting champ, but also our shrinking budgets.

The F-22 had to become a bomber, just like the F-15 had to, as did the F-4 before. The list is long and distinguished. You make do with what you have. None the less, to me, the F-35 seems more bomber than fighter, more like the F-105 than an F-8. Time will tell.

Of the choices fielded, during the fly off and the beauty contest, the F-35 was the pick of the litter. I can see many advantages to what they've done...IF they can put enough motor in it. Most of the stealth is in front, so one can make some assumptions from that about its intended missions.

And, given how long this machine will be in service and all the possible scenarios it will need to succeed in, you can get a feel for the challenges they were trying to address.

Good, bad or ugly, we're committed. We'll have to wait and see if they have chosen their compromises wisely. Production is rolling along and I was surprised by how many have been built and who all is currently flying them. There are plenty of the guru level geniuses here and abroad working on it. My F-35 glass is up to about two thirds full and filling slowly.

76 posted on 07/03/2013 7:28:27 PM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Animal Farm meets 1984 in A Brave New World. Crony capitalism, chaos and control.)
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To: GeronL

The heat seekers see the F-22 exhaust just fine without after burner. They can see the inlet too.

F-22 is a great plane, but you have to fight it like a F-22, that is to shoot your enemy before he sees you. If you wait, then you lose a big part of your advantage.

The unstable planes like Gripen or Typhoon have some advantages in close. F-22 drivers should know that, and avoid their advantages. Never give a sucker an even break.


77 posted on 07/03/2013 7:30:45 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

I like the ability of the F22 to fire their AMRAAMS using the radar of a distant AWACS without ever turning their own radar on. The enemy won’t see it coming.


78 posted on 07/03/2013 7:34:08 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

If lockheed candidate was what you say, they would have lost the contest. That isn’t what the requirements were.

Look, We wanted to get a big part of the newly free world to not buy Russian (ex soviet) planes. The F-35 gave a lot of people a chance to get a first class plane when all they had previously had was Soviet crap.

Industrial policy drove the strategy. Weapons design makes the F-35 superior for its role, and keeps its buyers involved in the non-russian markets.


79 posted on 07/03/2013 7:34:45 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: GeronL

Bingo! You win the prize!


80 posted on 07/03/2013 7:35:14 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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