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Military Suicides 'Out of Control'
The Northwest Florida Daily News Herald ^ | Monday, November 19, 2012 | Randal Yakey

Posted on 11/20/2012 8:34:10 AM PST by kristinn

CALLAWAY — Libby Busbee pounded on the window of her son’s maroon Dodge Charger as he sat in the driveway of their home earlier this year. Locked inside his car, U.S. Army Spc. William Busbee sat with a .45-caliber gun pointed to the side of his head.

“Look at me,” his mother cried out as she tried to get her son’s attention. “Look at me.”

He wouldn’t look.

He stared out the front windshield, distant, Busbee said, relating the story from an apartment complex in Callaway.

“I kept yelling, ‘Don’t you do this. Don’t do it.’ He wouldn’t turn his head to look at me,” she said, looking down at the burning cigarette in her hand.

A 911 call was made. The police pulled her away from the car.

William, Libby Busbee’s 23-year-old son, was talking with a police officer when he fired a shot through the front windshield of his car, according to the police report.

The police recoiled. William rapped on the window in apparent frustration, the report indicated.

Then the second shot was heard.

“I knew that was the one,” said Libby Busbee.

William Busbee took his life in March with his mother and sisters looking on.

Casualty of war?

William Busbee was no casualty of the war in Afghanistan. He was a casualty of his own mind, his mother said.

Libby Busbee bowed her head, talking as she sat next to a bird-of-paradise on the front porch of her apartment. She could no longer live in the home on 12th Street.

“They wouldn’t let me talk to him,” she said, referring to the day her son shot himself. “I know if he was able to see me he wouldn’t have done it.”

According to a Veterans Affairs report this spring, a veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes. More than 6,500 suicides have occurred since the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began. For every service member who dies in battle, 25 veterans die by their own hands.

According to a Pentagon report, more American active service members have killed themselves in the first six months of 2012 than in the first six months of any of the previous 11 years, The Associated Press reported.

The report reveals 154 service members killed themselves in the first 155 days of 2012 alone. The number of deaths by suicide is 50 percent higher than combat deaths in Afghanistan during the same period and an 18 percent increase over active service member suicides in the first six months of 2011.

And, while only 1 percent of Americans have served in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, veterans of these conflicts represent 20 percent of all suicides in the United States, the VA reported.

SNIP


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: crapmanderinchief; democratsdemoralize; military; oefveterans; oifveterans; ptsd; suicide; suicides; wot
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Statement from the Defense Department:

IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 907-12 November 15, 2012

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Army Releases October Suicide Data

The Army released suicide data today for the month of October. During October, among active-duty soldiers, there were 20 potential suicides: five have been confirmed as suicides, and 15 remain under investigation. For September, the Army reported 15 potential suicides among active-duty soldiers: four have been confirmed as suicides, and 11 remain under investigation. For 2012, there have been 166 potential active-duty suicides: 105 have been confirmed as suicides, and 61 remain under investigation. Active-duty suicide number for 2011: 165 confirmed as suicides, and no cases under investigation.

During October, among reserve component soldiers who were not on active duty, there were 13 potential suicides (nine Army National Guard and four Army Reserve): three have been confirmed as suicides, and 10 remain under investigation. For September, among that same group, the Army reported 16 potential suicides. Since the release of that report one case was added for a total of 17 cases (13 Army National Guard and 4 Army Reserve); five have been confirmed as suicides, and 12 remain under investigation. For 2012, there have been 114 potential not on active-duty suicides (75 Army National Guard and 39 Army Reserve): 83 have been confirmed as suicides, and 31 remain under investigation. Not on active-duty suicide numbers for 2011: 118 (82 Army National Guard and 36 Army Reserve) confirmed as suicides, and no cases under investigation.

“Suicide is preventable, and its prevention is a shared responsibility among all members of the Army family,” said Gen. David M. Rodriguez, commanding general, U.S. Army Forces Command. Rodriguez said that everyone is empowered to intervene and save lives, “effective intervention requires leadership involvement and support, an environment that promotes help-seeking for hidden wounds like depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress and prior knowledge of available local and national resources. We all must take the time to do a self-inventory to assess the presence and impact of stressors in our lives. Of equal importance is the awareness of the needs of others around us. There are no bystanders in our Army family.”

Soldiers and families in need of crisis assistance can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Trained consultants are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year and can be contacted by dialing 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or by visiting their website at http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org .

Army leaders can access current health promotion guidance in newly revised Army Regulation 600-63 (Health Promotion) at: http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r600_63.pdf and Army Pamphlet 600-24 (Health Promotion, Risk Reduction and Suicide Prevention) at http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/p600_24.pdf .

The Army's comprehensive list of Suicide Prevention Program information is located at http://www.preventsuicide.army.mil .

Suicide prevention training resources for Army families can be accessed at http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/suicide/training_sub.asp?sub_cat=20 (requires Army Knowledge Online access to download materials).

Information about Military OneSource is located at http://www.militaryonesource.com or by dialing the toll-free number 1-800-342-9647 for those residing in the continental United States. Overseas personnel should refer to the Military OneSource website for dialing instructions for their specific location.

Information about the Army’s Comprehensive Soldier Fitness Program is located at http://www.army.mil/csf/ .

The Defense Center for Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury (DCoE) Outreach Center can be contacted at 1-866-966-1020, via electronic mail at Resources@DCoEOutreach.org and at http://www.dcoe.health.mil .

The website for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention is http://www.afsp.org/ and the Suicide Prevention Resource Council site is found at http://www.sprc.org/index.asp .

1 posted on 11/20/2012 8:34:15 AM PST by kristinn
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To: kristinn

Once they have seen the horrors of war, maybe it is too much.


2 posted on 11/20/2012 8:38:34 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk
The last thing Democrats want is a strong and powerful military. The Democrats have purposely made the rules of engagement so restrictive, and the stigma of fighting a dirty war against a dirty enemy so heinous, because they want more crippled and emotionally damaged soldiers that have to rely on the VA for their help.

Democrats are happy when soldiers commit suicide...means one less Republican vote, plus it feeds into their long-ago fantasies that our troops are a bunch of homicidal psychos.

3 posted on 11/20/2012 8:42:38 AM PST by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: yldstrk

I wonder what the rate was for Vietnam, Korea and WWII vets.


4 posted on 11/20/2012 8:42:38 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral)
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To: kristinn

Unending war for inchoate purposes at the behest of an amoral system will sap morale.

“When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men’s weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.”

- Sun Tzu


5 posted on 11/20/2012 8:43:35 AM PST by Psalm 144 (For Chicken Little the sky is always falling.)
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To: kristinn

I’d sure be curious to hear from veteran FReepers about what might be causing these tragedies and what might be done to prevent them.

I’m not sure the rest of us are qualified to speculate since we can’t know what it’s like to have been in combat.


6 posted on 11/20/2012 8:44:49 AM PST by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: yldstrk

How are these horrors any different than those experienced by the men in WWI or WWII? Vietnam? I have several uncles still alive who served in Nam. While two of them are relatively normal and well-adjusted, the other suffers from horrible PTSD and, as he puts it, “hasn’t had a full night of sleep in 40 years,” but he’s alive.

A very close friend of mine returned from Iraq in 2010 after 6 tours. He was a shell of the person I remember in college. He told me that they give these boys all sorts of shots and tests before they go into the field, but he was convinced to his dying day that they gave them anti-depressants and Ritalin to keep them sharp. He took his own life just 6 weeks after returning home.


7 posted on 11/20/2012 8:46:23 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: yldstrk

I’m worried about my son. He’s 18 and has enlisted in the USMC. He’s wanted to do this since he was eight. It’s been his sole motivation all the way through grammar, middle, and high school, the only thing that made him keep his grades up and keep working. He’ll be going to Parris Island after Christmas.

But he thinks war is a video game. He has very little maturity, little grasp of how horrible it can be. He thinks that because he has no difficulty field-dressing and butchering a deer that he won’t be affected by the nightmares with which he’ll be confronted. I hope he can survive psychologically as well as physically. Constant prayer going on here.


8 posted on 11/20/2012 8:46:29 AM PST by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare)
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To: yldstrk

They DRUG them with cocktails with only G-d knows what in them.


9 posted on 11/20/2012 8:47:17 AM PST by MestaMachine (TREASON!!!!)
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To: SkyDancer
I wonder what the rate was for Vietnam, Korea and WWII vets.

Soldiers ill-equipped for life after war isn't new. Many of the outlaws of the Old West were disaffected Civil War vets. Hell's Angels was started by world War II vets who couldn't stand the idea of living a restricted life after what they had seen in combat.

Still, I blame Democrats for much of this, because they want our soldiers to fight clean, pretty wars against a dirty, savage, ugly enemy and will pronounce them "war criminals" every time given the chance. Also, their pronouncements during the Iraq War were purposely geared to encourage our enemy and demoralize our military (Harry Reid, I'm looking at your sorry-assed self...personally, I'd grab you by your magic underwear and give you a wedgie).

10 posted on 11/20/2012 8:47:51 AM PST by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: kristinn

let su not forget how rapes on men has jumped immensly since don;t ask was done away with last year.
19.000 rapes on reported rapes on men in the military in one year.

Maybe it is time for the left to admit their social changes have made the military worse, their changes have brought in PC and now we et a lesser person serving because Generals , officers and other NCO’s are being promoted based on color, homosexuality etc


11 posted on 11/20/2012 8:48:05 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: kristinn
These multiple deployments are nuts...
12 posted on 11/20/2012 8:48:18 AM PST by Average Al
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To: yldstrk

It is not the horrors of war. When Obama took office, the suicide rate in the military was half of the general population of the same age group in general society. It now exceeds the general population.

With the rules of engagement changing under Obama and the frustration of not being able to protect themselves or the men under them that they are responsible for, they are feeling hopeless. I hear their stories.

I’ve talked to quite a few soldiers who tell me of their men being court martialed for returning fire when shot at by snipers. Of inept commanders pulling the perimeter guards and allowing truck bombs to enter their field bases. I hear the horror stories. Of being put in tents to sleep within range of insurgent fire, who open fire on them at night and then drop their guns. The soldiers are told they cannot shoot back unless the insurgent has a gun in hand and firing.

I hate to say it, but these men are turning their anger and frustration inward rather than at the administration that is creating this mess. It is only a matter of time until this explodes in a different direction. These men are angry!

The reason that Gen Ham was replaced was because he did not hold back on rescuing fellow soldiers in peril. It’s time the military realizes who their real enemy is!


13 posted on 11/20/2012 8:49:42 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: kristinn
My son's friend did this. They had fought and served together in Ramadi and in the Sunni Triangle. We took them to get their new dress blues for the Marine ball. One day, after coming home from Iraq twice safely, he had had enough.

We all still think about him.
14 posted on 11/20/2012 8:50:38 AM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the lance and the arrows as a warning.)
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


15 posted on 11/20/2012 8:52:42 AM PST by Nachum (The List is off the Google blacklist- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: MestaMachine

http://www.cchrint.org/tag/chantix/

~snip~
((In 2009 there were 239 suicides within the Army, including the Reserves, 160 active duty suicides, 146 active duty deaths from drug overdoses and high-risk behavior, and 1,713 suicide attempts, says the Army’s suicide report released in July.

More troops are dying from their own hands than in combat, says the Army report, titled “Health Promotion, Risk Reduction, and Suicide Prevention.” Thirty-six percent of the suicides were among troops who were never deployed.

Also astonishing is the psychoactive prescription drug rate among active duty-aged troops, aged 18 to 34, which is up 85 percent since 2003, according to the military health plan, Tricare. Including family prescriptions, since 2001, 73,103 prescriptions for Zoloft have been dispensed, 38,199 for Prozac, 17,830 for Paxil, and 12,047 for Cymbalta. All of the drugs carry a suicide-warning label.

In addition to the spike in SSRI antidepressant prescriptions, prescriptions for the anticonvulsants Topamax and Neurontin rose 56 percent in the same group since 2005, says Navy Times. The FDA warned last year that taking these drugs doubles suicidal thinking.

In fact, 4,994 troops at Fort Bragg, N.C., are on antidepressants right now, says the Fayetteville Observer. Six hundred and sixty-four are on an antipsychotic and “many soldiers take more than one type of medication.”

Troops may also be taking Chantix, an antismoking drug so linked to violence and self-harm that Secretary of Veterans Affairs James Peake was forced to defend its use before the House Committee on Veterans Affairs in 2008 even in drug trials.))


16 posted on 11/20/2012 8:53:41 AM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: MuttTheHoople

Haven’t met a Dem or Lib who supported our troops. BTW, that Dem traitor Kerry is up for SecDef??? It’d be the biggest slap in the face to all military who served in Vietnam, or anyone who served. That man along with Hanoi Jane are despicable people.


17 posted on 11/20/2012 8:54:11 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral)
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To: yldstrk

It is not just that. Once a guy leaves the service things change. It is like leaving a family. Every vet I know misses the deep friendships only found in the brotherhood of service. My father and I both served. He has been out for over 15 years and I have been out for 12. The thing that we both miss is the bonds we had with men like ourselves.

In the civilian world, friendships are shallow in comparison. You may have friends but the deep bond is not there. What is happening now, is men are leaving the service and returning home with the weight of what they saw and did. Once away from the service they do not have someone to understand and relate with on a daily bases. This leads to the depression and for too many suicide.


18 posted on 11/20/2012 8:54:38 AM PST by Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
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To: rarestia
"How are these horrors any different than those experienced by the men in WWI or WWII? Vietnam? I have several uncles still alive who served in Nam. While two of them are relatively normal and well-adjusted, the other suffers from horrible PTSD and, as he puts it, “hasn’t had a full night of sleep in 40 years,” but he’s alive."

I, of course, can not specifically address the case of your acquaintances, but I would venture to guess that in past generations, the typical servicemember was much more likely to have been raised within some type of structured religion. While there have always been those who could not handle the horrors of war, there have also been those who could not handle the far more mundane stresses of day-to-day living.

Those grounded in a strong faith tradition are generally speaking, better equipped emotionally, psychologically and spiritually to deal with extreme events.

The modern military is a reflection of the society and its members reflect the increasingly secularized population from which they are drawn.

19 posted on 11/20/2012 8:54:56 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: chrisser

here is my take.

First the poeple joining are good people but some are not suited and should nto be in the military,

PC is killing the military.

Also rapes on men , there has bene a huge jumpon men last year which coincides with letting homosexuals , cross dressers serve openly., 19,000 reported rapes on men in one year and th eleft will say that is just a coincidence, B/S

I know a neighbors kid joined, , why? Bec ause he wanted the benefits, nothing to do with the country he admitted.

There in lies the problem, people today , well many of them join because they want their benefits, free school etc.

I had nightmares, still do sometimes, went through a rough patch but my wife and I got through it.

What we have today is not the world war two guy, the manly guy, no sir what we have is many yong men joining for freebies, and the tests ot get in are pathetic.
Marines now is two pulls ups
women is one pull up

That is it, to graduate is 3 pulls for men and two for women, the running tests is done in sneakers.

Perfect examples, Manning who gave secrets away because he was a homosexual and did to like the law back then.
Hasan , who killed for allah at FT Hood

There should be a better screening for mental and physical, get rid of PC, stop promoting officers based on if they;re black or homosexual or hispanic.


20 posted on 11/20/2012 8:55:20 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: kristinn
According to a Veterans Affairs report this spring, a veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes.

In the aftermath of WWI, they were dropping at the rate of two per day. The numbers have only climbed since then.

21 posted on 11/20/2012 8:55:31 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ('Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep your own...)
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To: Psalm 144

Quite up to date.


22 posted on 11/20/2012 8:56:36 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: kristinn
Just for context. For active duty soldiers.


23 posted on 11/20/2012 8:57:49 AM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: ottbmare

just make sure he doens;t get raped, rapes jumped up to 19,000 last year and that was just the reported ones.

How many are not reported?

My oldest wants marine recon or navy seal, and I;ve told him there is no way in hell he will join whilst these PC policies are in place and obama is President especially after Libya and how oabma dealt with that


24 posted on 11/20/2012 8:57:49 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: chrisser

“I’m not sure the rest of us are qualified to speculate since we can’t know what it’s like to have been in combat.”

I know it is very individual and can get odd. As a young man my father saw action in WWII. His unit ultimately suffered a 90% attrition rate in Europe. As a mature man he volunteered for Vietnam. When he returned stateside he had a lot of nightmares - of WWII. I always found that sad and chilling.


25 posted on 11/20/2012 8:57:58 AM PST by Psalm 144 (For Chicken Little the sky is always falling.)
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To: MestaMachine

I was never in combat, but I was active duty 85-89 and we went to the Persian Gulf... and they do indeed give a lot of shots to service members. Also as a reservist from 93-01... shots and more shots. I don’t get shots anymore, not even flu shots. I figure I’m souped up for life with all the shots I got.


26 posted on 11/20/2012 8:59:20 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: Joe 6-pack

Great point, Joe. All three of my uncles are regular church goers and speak openly of their commitment to Christ. My uncle Tom credits religion with getting him out of Nam alive.

My buddy Alan, on the other hand, was a twice-a-year Catholic and even mentioned that they weren’t allowed to have prayers in his platoon due to military regs. I found that disturbing.


27 posted on 11/20/2012 9:00:59 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: tired&retired

Obama’s fault.


28 posted on 11/20/2012 9:01:07 AM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep. Anthony Douglas Williams)
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To: MestaMachine

I’m getting more and more convinced that they are trying to demoralize the military. From ROEs, cutting back healthcare, multiple deployments, no support back home, on and on.

I watched Dr. Zhivago last night with our oldest. They Bolshi’s used the military who was bruised and broken from WW2 to rise up....and they did. Look at what they did to them in Vietnam and hoped for the same result by parading ‘anti-US soldiers’ in front of the media.


29 posted on 11/20/2012 9:01:57 AM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: Angry_White_Man_Syndrome

Part of that loneliness and lack of folks you can relate to could come from these guys not joining vet organizations like VFW and AL for whatever reason. I never understood why they didn’t. I had my application in after I got back from Afghanistan.


30 posted on 11/20/2012 9:04:14 AM PST by chargers fan
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To: libertarian27

They do this even when these guys are on the battlefield...and they give them uppers to keep them alert and on edge.
I have been fighting this fight for a long time. NO ONE LISTENS.


31 posted on 11/20/2012 9:04:41 AM PST by MestaMachine (TREASON!!!!)
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To: tired&retired

exactly

people are saying this is because of war, no it is not.

Vets come back to a place which says thank you and then the the vee is on their own.
They can;t get jobs, the VA is a waste, they don;t have the pals around them

PC is killing the military and last year the homosexuals, cross dressers can serve openly, .
Since that came into affect the rapes on men jumped like it never has.
19,000 sexual assaults on men in one year, just one year, when was that year.?
Last year, the year after homosexuals and cross dressers can serve openly.

Then look around at some who now join, they;re a waste of time, whilst we have good men joining we also get for every good person joining we get a PC idiot or someone looking for their free school, loans paid off, VA etc.

We want to get rid of suicides ot make it go down then stop the PC nonsense, stop letting poeple join who will never handle the military and are more suited to picking tulips in the flower garden.


32 posted on 11/20/2012 9:04:41 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: kristinn

They need God, not pills.


33 posted on 11/20/2012 9:05:27 AM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; kristinn

kristinn:
According to a Veterans Affairs report this spring, a veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes.

Bloody Sam Roberts:
In the aftermath of WWI, they were dropping at the rate of two per day. The numbers have only climbed since then.

************************

That comparison is even more extreme when one considers the incredible numeric difference in the two wars. So many more WWII veterans compared to the Sand Wars.


34 posted on 11/20/2012 9:06:04 AM PST by Psalm 144 (For Chicken Little the sky is always falling.)
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To: yldstrk

Agree He was a casualty of his own mind.


35 posted on 11/20/2012 9:06:34 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: rarestia
One of my uncles was a Ranger. he landed ahead of everybody everywhere ~ but not at Normandy. He missed that because he had been shot at the Rapido River ~ but he survived.

I remember sitting around with him, my father, their other brother, a couple of cousins, and another young man from the neighborhood ~ we were having a beer ~ which at my age they shouldn't have been feeding me, but their talk was of my wounded Ranger uncle's shoulder.

They were passing me around from shoulder to shoulder, except my Ranger uncle ~ his wounds weren't quite healed ~ then my mother and grandmother stopped into the kitchen to see what I was doing.

That event and their faces and conversations are etched in stone in my mind. Forever young and strong and free. All of them had served in the war ~ no complaints ~ but yet my uncle's wounds were always of concern to my father and their friends ~ they never quite healed, and he really wasn't the same young fellow who'd gone off to be a soldier and answered that key question ~ "Would you prefer to mix cocktails at a party or go hunting"?

36 posted on 11/20/2012 9:07:08 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SkyDancer
I wonder what the rate was for Vietnam, Korea and WWII vets.

That is an excellent question. Also, it would be nice to compare the rates of similar allies, Canada, England, Australia.

I think the suicide rate is directly related to the "deployment tempo". The Army troops are here for a year or 2 and then gone on another one year tour.

One way to test my theory is to compare rates for Air Force and Marines. I believe the Air Force has the shortest average deployment time of about a quarter year. The Marines then follow with an average of about half a year. The Army still insists on their one year deployment.

Check to see if there is a statistically significant difference in suicide rates due to deployment while controlling for other common factors.

My sense is that the nation has burned it's military candle on both ends since bosnia followed by the campaigns in iraq/afghan and then the extended decade+ of nation building in both those nations.

The troops are burned out AND they've seen and experienced stuff normal to war.

37 posted on 11/20/2012 9:07:33 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: chrisser

Stop repeat deployments ,for one thing.

Even some NG units are seeing 2 and 3 tours in a row.


38 posted on 11/20/2012 9:07:47 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: manc

At least during WWII, everyone served in some capacity, odds are if you were over 18, you were fighting somewhere, and of course even on the home front, everyone got involved as well. The country was united.

Every war ever since, has been a case of only a few actually fighting, and back home, it was far from united, as we saw with Vietnam. People back home didn’t relate to the soldiers that were returning, some even despised them, calling them “baby killers.” And of course the saying during the Iraq was “While the military went to war, America went to the mall.”


39 posted on 11/20/2012 9:09:17 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Psalm 144

kristinn:
According to a Veterans Affairs report this spring, a veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes.

__________________________

This is all vets not just recent vets.


40 posted on 11/20/2012 9:09:32 AM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: Angry_White_Man_Syndrome

“Once away from the service they do not have someone to understand and relate with on a daily bases. “

Is it helpful for veterans to have other veterans around? Maybe at work, etc?


41 posted on 11/20/2012 9:10:03 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Witty saying goes here...)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

From ROEs, cutting back healthcare, multiple deployments, no support back home, on and on\

to add, having to share showers, and rooms wiht homosexuals, officers who are queer coming onto the young man,
Why no one ever bothers with this fact is beyond me but I guess many now are PC.

Rapes on men in one year, last year rose to 19,000, no coincidence that homosexuals and cross dressers can serve openly and ten we see a massive jump in rapes.

Then add the fact which no one ever talks about is that many join to get freebies, free school , loans paid off.

My neighbor had a kid just join to get all the freebies and that was it, he couldn;t be bothered about this country and has stated as such.

Why most think military members are all patriotic is beyond me, many are , some are not.

Some should not even serve or get in the military but today it is easy to get in.

Today a marine recruits only has to do two pulls up to get in and 3 to graduate.
Running tests are done in sneakers.
women one pull up , two to graduate

That is a joke

Get back to how it used to be, let people join based on if theyp;re good enough and strong enough, not have PC momma boy joining or lets ave more minorities or homosexuals and even now frigging cross dressers, WTH

Even on this thread some seem to think this is just about war, it is not.
Many kill themselves who have never even been on combat


42 posted on 11/20/2012 9:11:15 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: yldstrk

Once they have seen the horrors of war, maybe it is too much.

Inded! I have worked with WWII and Korean War veterans and they have confided things to me that they witnessed or had to do or experienced at the hands of the enemy How any of them make it back with a sound mind is a miracle.
But the thing is, men who served in those wars did not have the support that the current veterans have. They internalized things and did not speak of them to anyone as a rule. Not family anyway. As an outside party they often told me things and said it was the first time they had spoken of it....and that was decades after the facts. Often we would cry together. There are things I wish I had not been told but I will not repeat them. I just carry them in a very heavy corner of my heart and pray for those who spoke of those things and carried the horrors with them for so long. I have no idea what the suicide rate was for the WWII and Korean War vets. I wonder if it was as bad as the current statistics.


43 posted on 11/20/2012 9:11:27 AM PST by ruesrose (Love is Action!.)
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To: chrisser
I’d sure be curious to hear from veteran FReepers about what might be causing these tragedies and what might be done to prevent them.

Couldn't tell you. I remember being VERY stressed in Iraq after a few months when we were always so ready to kill bad guys and they never, ever showed their faces. IEDs were somewhat common, but even that was rare. The stress was mostly self-inflicted, to be honest. I was trying to will something to happen, but that wasn't going to work. Once I accepted that, the deployment got much easier.

Some of these guys have experienced some pretty bad stuff, but then they're immediately told to relax and not do anything to anyone (lest someone take out his aggression on the nearby village with numerous unknown enemy). It may be the right thing to say, morally, but that crap is typically the last thing you want to hear after your buddy just got splattered all over the road.

44 posted on 11/20/2012 9:14:49 AM PST by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: kristinn

Compare suicide numbers of enlisted combat MOS types with officers/non-combat. Then study day-to-day relations (actual comments and deeds) between soldiers and lifelong civilians in the world (here, at home)—especially when they’re out and working jobs (or looking for jobs). Then you’ll be closer to the truth.

We live in a very “politically correct” (socially pathological, morally bankrupt) and deluded society, and our leadership began to turn against its own nation decades ago. An occasional holiday for false praise, psychological introspection and government offices won’t repair the general disdain and disrespect for men (real heterosexual men, who work with both their minds and their hands).


45 posted on 11/20/2012 9:16:55 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: xzins

wouldn’t say burned out.

We now have men and women who should not be in, many today are not strong enough but because of PC we allow them in.

Our country has grown weak, mamby pamby land lets say.

Get rid of PC, toughen guys up, toughen our sons up, .

19,000 rapes on men last year, that figures rose hugely since homosexuals can serve openly.

Also a vet comes back, people say thank you but as a vet we see those people say thanks and then off to their homnes, their jobs, their friends.
The vet looks around, , can;t get a job, has no where to go, his pals are still serving who understand him and he feels left alone

Also many killing themselves are not or ever been in combat.

It’s time we stopped letting people join who we know can;t handle it.
How many have been raped but have to live with that and can;t tell anyone?.
How many NCO’s and officers have made a move or made a remark to a young guy who has just joined?


46 posted on 11/20/2012 9:17:46 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: yldstrk

It really isn’t a video game...


47 posted on 11/20/2012 9:18:07 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: manc

This is exactly what they want. a crippled military leaves us vulnerable.


48 posted on 11/20/2012 9:18:33 AM PST by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: familyop

Makes me think of a George Carlin rant, about how we’ve softened the language:

I don’t like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse.

I’ll give you an example of that. There’s a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It’s when a fighting person’s nervous system has been stressed to its’ absolute peak and maximum. Can’t take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap. In the first world war, that condition was called ‘shell shock’. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, ‘shell shock’. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago.

Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called ‘battle fatigue’. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn’t seem to hurt as much. ‘Fatigue’ is a nicer word than ‘shock’. Shell shock! Battle fatigue.

Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called ‘operational exhaustion’. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It’s totally sterile now. ‘Operational exhaustion’. Sounds like something that might happen to your car.

Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it’s no surprise that the very same condition was called ‘Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder’. Still eight syllables, but we’ve added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. ‘Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder’. I’ll bet you if we’d of still been calling it ‘shell shock’, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I’ll betcha. I’ll betcha.


49 posted on 11/20/2012 9:19:05 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: xzins

wouldn’t say burned out.

We now have men and women who should not be in, many today are not strong enough but because of PC we allow them in.

Our country has grown weak, mamby pamby land lets say.

Get rid of PC, toughen guys up, toughen our sons up, .

19,000 rapes on men last year, that figures rose hugely since homosexuals can serve openly.

Also a vet comes back, people say thank you but as a vet we see those people say thanks and then off to their homnes, their jobs, their friends.
The vet looks around, , can;t get a job, has no where to go, his pals are still serving who understand him and he feels left alone

Also many killing themselves are not or ever been in combat.

It’s time we stopped letting people join who we know can;t handle it.
How many have been raped but have to live with that and can;t tell anyone?.
How many NCO’s and officers have made a move or made a remark to a young guy who has just joined?

stop this social changes and PC nonsense


50 posted on 11/20/2012 9:19:26 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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