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Still Looking Like the Higgs
ScienceNOW ^ | 15 November 2012 | Adrian Cho

Posted on 11/16/2012 9:57:42 PM PST by neverdem

sn-higgs.jpg

Credit: CERN

Still too soon to know. That's the latest word from particle physicists working with the world's largest atom smasher—Europe's Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland—as they try to figure out whether the particle they discovered in July is precisely the long-sought Higgs boson or something a tad different. The key question is whether the new particle decays into combinations of familiar particles at the rates that physicists' standard model predicts. So far, the measured decay rates generally match expectations, but the statistical uncertainties are too large to say anything conclusive, physicists working with the gargantuan particle detectors known as ATLAS and CMS reported today at a conference in Tokyo. The plots above show the measured decay rates relative to the standard model predictions, so that a value of 1 means agreement. (The vertical line in the CMS plot shows the average of all the measurements.) More data will shrink the error bars and yield a clearer picture.

See more ScienceShots.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Technical; Testing
KEYWORDS: higgsboson; physics; stringtheory

1 posted on 11/16/2012 9:57:45 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Couldn’t this somehow be the key to unlimited energy, space & time travel?


2 posted on 11/16/2012 10:01:00 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: neverdem
...as they try to figure out whether the particle they discovered in July is precisely the long-sought Higgs boson or something a tad different.

I could tell you what I think.

3 posted on 11/16/2012 10:11:11 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

no no and no


4 posted on 11/16/2012 10:45:46 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
That's what I get for believing those guys on Big Bang Theory.
5 posted on 11/16/2012 10:50:20 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: higgmeister

I would be interested.


6 posted on 11/16/2012 11:01:43 PM PST by healy61
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To: higgmeister

I would be interested.


7 posted on 11/16/2012 11:01:49 PM PST by healy61
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

One of my favorite shows....and it hits way to close to home with those I know and hang out with


8 posted on 11/16/2012 11:03:07 PM PST by Nifster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

rock paper scissors lizard spock


9 posted on 11/16/2012 11:03:33 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: healy61

I think not so much. My handle is a play on my name as Rob Schneider’s office flunky at the photo-copier would have done, not from being an authority. Still, I’m rooting for the Higgs boson to soon be more than Particle Theory with, hopes that it could advance finding a Unified Field Theory.


10 posted on 11/16/2012 11:39:13 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: SpaceBar
Bazinga!


11 posted on 11/17/2012 4:32:17 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: higgmeister
My handle is a play on my name as Rob Schneider’s office flunky at the photo-copier would have done

The Higg-a-rama...Higg-a-lig-a-ding-dong...Higggggggg.

12 posted on 11/17/2012 4:35:11 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: 6SJ7; AdmSmith; AFPhys; Arkinsaw; allmost; aristotleman; autumnraine; Beowulf; Bones75; BroJoeK; ...
Thanks neverdem.

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13 posted on 11/17/2012 6:39:58 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The entire universe would have to be affected for time travel to take place. In the past it would have to be smaller, and in the future it would have to larger by its expansion.

I doubt if it will ever be possible.


14 posted on 11/17/2012 6:58:04 AM PST by onedoug
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To: SunkenCiv
Higgs at 126GeV/c² ... hmmm... looking very promising for that now.

I honestly thought it would be at a much higher mass.

15 posted on 11/17/2012 7:23:59 AM PST by AFPhys ((Praying for our troops, our citizens, that the Bible and Freedom become basis of the US law again))
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To: onedoug
Doug, you're already a time traveler, albeit you now move in only one direction. ... BUT, if our concept of time was a bit different, say perhaps that time is a volume in which linear (past) and planar (present) time are expressions, then the soulish you and I are in planar time, sensing only linear time via the body, and our brain/mind duality functions to lend meaning to what is of our existence, situated as it is at the junction (planar/present) between linear and volumetric time. We can project our accumulated 'IS' (via our memory function) to anticipate/conjecture what will be, but our duality (the body/soul duality is what I refer to) is 'in' planar temporal reference to the Universe as the bubble in which we exist. The body is trapped and decaying in linear temporal alignment to the Universe, while the soul exists in a different, planar temporal alignment with the Universe. [Sheldon is one of my mentors donchaknow. ;^)]
16 posted on 11/17/2012 9:51:58 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop

pingaling ... this is as simply put as I can express ‘it’ ...


17 posted on 11/17/2012 10:04:09 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

As to the soul, God knows, literally. I believe in “life after death” but haven’t the vaguest notion of how God works it.

If the universe is indeed a “bubble” (M-Theory), and even if there are infinite bubbles, even each with different physics, it wouldn’t preclude God for me. Indeed it would magnify His power.

I tend to agree that we are “trapped” in this universe. And I suspect, again, that we’re trapped within the constraints it places on time by its overall expansion.

May I also deign to ask, who is Sheldon? Drake?


18 posted on 11/17/2012 11:24:43 AM PST by onedoug
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some would led us to believe the answer is 43. In their hearts however they know the answer is actually what it always has been..... forty - two. (which is actually 38)


19 posted on 11/17/2012 11:37:36 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: onedoug
See post eleven ... but it won't be amusing if you have no idea what the TV show 'The Big Bang Theory' is all about.

I was offering the postulate that it is our body which is trapped in this Universe of our perceptions ... except that the soul, which is not trapped in the linear temporal expression of the Universe, is already in a temporal configuration which amounts to non-dissipation, temporally.

So we have an aspect which is already in the 'life state' which will be more of our configuration than while occupying the body we now have which is trapped in a dissipation state of linear temporal alignment. God has assured us that we shall have another body to which the temporally untrapped soul will be adapted.

I have what some say is an odd conceptualization of 'life after death', since I believe we already have something 'timeless' that is our soul. The Bible tells us 'the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them' and also that 'those who have died in Christ shall God bring with Him at the last trump and shout'.

I wonder, is the arrangement of the soul and spirit within similar to the arrangement of the body and soul within? If so, might we some day have a soul being informed by the spirit, in a non-dissipation temporal state of the Universe?

It's all tied up in our primitive conceptualization of 'what is dimension Time'.

20 posted on 11/17/2012 1:03:08 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Immediately after I posted I thought of “The Big Bang Theory”. Seems I was uncool: ~4ºK


21 posted on 11/17/2012 1:52:02 PM PST by onedoug
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To: MHGinTN; onedoug; betty boop
Thank you so very much for sharing your theories on time, dear MHGinTN!

onedoug, you might find the following article interesting, particularly in its view of physical death as a phase shift.

22 posted on 11/17/2012 9:27:47 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
The request page is restricted

Thank you, Alamo-Girl. Can you think of another way in?

23 posted on 11/17/2012 10:20:10 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
Hmmmm ... let me know if this link works for you.
24 posted on 11/18/2012 6:47:25 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

It’s better. However, all I can access is the abstract. There seems no link to the actual paper.

Sorry to seem to be complaining.


25 posted on 11/18/2012 7:19:48 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Alamo-Girl

I spoke too soon. I found it. Thanks so much A-G.


26 posted on 11/18/2012 7:22:05 AM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
You're quite welcome.
27 posted on 11/18/2012 7:43:08 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4LZRLdyQl4


28 posted on 11/18/2012 7:48:26 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: AFPhys

It was the dress she was wearing.


29 posted on 11/18/2012 7:55:20 AM PST by bmwcyle (Women reelected Obama)
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To: onedoug; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN
Hi onedoug!

Try this link: Paul Wesson's "Time as an Illusion" in PDF. I do believe this is the piece Alamo-Girl was directing you to. It's a dandy!!!

P.S: MHGinTN's speculations on time are fascinating to me. I think he's onto something important here. Certainly I agree with him that our notions of time are rather primitive, being derived from our experiences of direct sense perception. Hint: Not everything in the universe is accessible to direct sense perception, a//k/a direct observation.

30 posted on 11/18/2012 8:27:46 AM PST by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; onedoug; MHGinTN; TXnMA
P.S: MHGinTN's speculations on time are fascinating to me. I think he's onto something important here. Certainly I agree with him that our notions of time are rather primitive, being derived from our experiences of direct sense perception. Hint: Not everything in the universe is accessible to direct sense perception, a//k/a direct observation.

SO very true, dearest sister in Christ!

Another example, we cannot physically sense how fast we are moving through space/time which is over 550,000 mph when we include the rotation of the earth on its axis, its orbital length around the sun and the solar system's around the galaxy. To that we'd have to add the expansion of space/time itself which is accelerating, btw.


31 posted on 11/18/2012 10:34:08 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; onedoug
... we cannot physically sense how fast we are moving through space/time which is over 550,000 mph when we include the rotation of the earth on its axis, its orbital length around the sun and the solar system's around the galaxy. To that we'd have to add the expansion of space/time itself which is accelerating, btw.

So here we are, hurtling through space at 550,000 mph, and instead of getting instant whiplash, we take no "physical" notice at all.

Might this be because we can't take notice of that which we do not "feel" or "observe." Via the bodily sensorium, whose access to information from/of "the outside world" is confined to sight, hearing, smell, touch, taste (and the highly articulated biophysical systems that facilitate the reports of perception/observation to the brain, etc.)

It seems to me there might be some kind of "time problem" implicit in the "whiplash vs. total insensibility" conundrum above.

Perhaps Einstein's concept of inertial frame has wider application than scientists — not to mention we ordinary mortals — usually deal with.

Anyhoot, welcome to this post, my dear brothers, MHGinTN and TXnMA!

[onedoug, the four of us have been kicking around "The Problem Of Time" backstage for a while now. It's been a perfectly marvelous and challenging exchange of knowledge and views, from many different backgrounds. And we have all learned from each other, and are still learning, I do believe. :^)]

Dear MHGinTN, I've been thinking about your account/theory of Time as involving linear/planar/volumetric modes. I just had to follow you there. So, trying to find a "mathematical" model, I started to imagine the problem by analogy to the Cartesian plane — which instantly depicts both the linear and planar dimensions.

At this point, I'm going to run away and draw some pictures. I'll be back ASAP.

Thank you dearest Alamo-Girl, sister in Christ for your outstanding observations!

32 posted on 11/18/2012 3:51:00 PM PST by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; MHGinTN; TXnMA; onedoug
It seems to me there might be some kind of "time problem" implicit in the "whiplash vs. total insensibility" conundrum above.

Indeed there is. And we cannot sense relativistic time any better than we can sense how fast we are actually moving through space/time.

Truly, one hardly ever hears even a physicist complete the sentence when he is talking about the age of the universe, e.g. ... from our present space/time coordinates.

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

33 posted on 11/18/2012 7:43:08 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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