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McCain Beats Romney! The Pennsylvania story -- how did it and so much else go wrong?
American Spectator ^ | 11.9.12 | PAUL KENGOR

Posted on 11/13/2012 9:14:41 AM PST by neverdem

Brace yourselves, conservatives. What I’m about to say will hurt, and it should hurt -- and I’m not the first to notice. (Kudos to Rush Limbaugh, who noticed and is hitting this point hard.) Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election not so much because he got fewer votes than Barack Obama but because he got fewer votes than John McCain in 2008.

Additional votes are still coming in, but, as of the time of my writing, Romney received around 57.8 million votes in 2012. In 2008, John McCain received 59.9 million. Romney got over 2 million fewer votes than McCain. And in the final count, he will almost certainly have received considerably fewer votes than McCain.

Obama received 60.6 million votes in 2012, almost 9 million less than he received in 2008. If Romney would have had McCain’s vote total, he would have been much closer in the popular vote and might have even had enough to win the Electoral College. Or, better put, if Mitt Romney had secured just a tiny fraction more votes than John McCain -- as we conservatives were certain he would -- he might have won the presidency.

We know this: Romney won independents by 5 points, and they made up 29% of all voters. McCain didn’t win independents.

What does this really mean? That’s where the hurt comes. It appears to mean that our side lost because we failed to turn out our side. It isn’t so much that the Obama-Axelrod apparatus turned out their side -- though they did -- but that our side failed to...

--snip--

Imagine: If someone had told you that Barack Obama would receive 9 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008, you would have predicted his sure defeat. You would have been wrong. Republicans blew a huge opportunity.

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: pa2012; romney
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Romney also failed to make use of the murderous Benghazigate and Fast and Furious. We have some serious dolts in the stupid party. His campaign advisers should be avoided like the plague.

We need an analysis by congressional district with final, certifiable votes.

1 posted on 11/13/2012 9:14:51 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

“Imagine: If someone had told you that Barack Obama would receive 9 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008, you would have predicted his sure defeat. You would have been wrong. Republicans blew a huge opportunity.”

We didn’t vote. It’s our own stupid fault. Stand back and watch the next years under Marxist rule, you morons who were too pure to vote for Mitt.


2 posted on 11/13/2012 9:17:53 AM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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To: neverdem

“We need an analysis by congressional district with final, certifiable votes. “

It’s the stupid irresponsible purists who wouldn’t vote for Romney that are certifiable.


3 posted on 11/13/2012 9:19:13 AM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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To: neverdem

One word:
FRAUD


4 posted on 11/13/2012 9:19:22 AM PST by 9422WMR (Life is not fair, just deal with it)
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To: neverdem

Did McCain really beat Romney, or did Democrats simply step up their vote fraud this election?


5 posted on 11/13/2012 9:21:50 AM PST by Obadiah (Americans said, "Give us Barabbas!")
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To: neverdem
One word!

SarahPalin

6 posted on 11/13/2012 9:21:54 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: neverdem
The numbers are, I believe, still coming in - and will for a couple of more weeks.

Romney now has 1mm fewer votes than McCain, not 2mm fewer as the article states. Romney may wind up having about the same number of votes as McCain did.

The President now has 7 million fewer votes than last time, not 9mm as the article states.

7 posted on 11/13/2012 9:22:03 AM PST by wideawake
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To: neverdem
The the vote counts in the article are old but relatively similar. From what I've seen so far:

Obama : 62,280,959 Popular Votes

Romney : 58,899,127 Popular Votes

8 posted on 11/13/2012 9:23:42 AM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: wideawake

I read an article somewhere were the writer stated that Romney would end up with the same vote total as Mccain. It takes time to count every vote.


9 posted on 11/13/2012 9:24:49 AM PST by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: 9422WMR

You are in denial. Sure there was some fraud, but Romney had zero GOTV efforts other than operation “Beached Whale”


10 posted on 11/13/2012 9:24:51 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: neverdem
I predicted massive voter fraud MONTHS ago.

I hate being right....

11 posted on 11/13/2012 9:28:12 AM PST by Jerrybob (Truth -- the new hate speech.)
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To: 9422WMR

Two words:

FRAUD AND PALIN!


12 posted on 11/13/2012 9:29:09 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: 9422WMR

Even with all of the voter fraud, Romney should have won by 10 Million votes anyway - people stayed home.


13 posted on 11/13/2012 9:30:34 AM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: GlockThe Vote

“You are in denial. Sure there was some fraud, but Romney had zero GOTV efforts other than operation “Beached Whale””

So SOME FRAUD is ok?
Please explain how some fraud in voting is OK?
And why is it always the democRATS who are doing the fraudulant voting?
Who the hell is in denial here?
One fraud vote negates the vote of an honest citizen.
What does thousands of fraud votes do?
It corrupts the systems. Which is exactly where we are at.
There is no honor among democRATS.


14 posted on 11/13/2012 9:31:30 AM PST by 9422WMR (Life is not fair, just deal with it)
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To: 9422WMR; All






Sign the petition:

http://www.petition2congress.com/8222/petition-recount-on-2012-presidential-election/







Visit this site. They are keeping a running account of cases of voter fraud and what to do about it:

(ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!)

http://www.ObamaVoterFraud.com/







SARAH PALIN speaks out of massive Obama machine voter fraud:

Sarah Palin News ‏@SarahPalinLinks Between suppression of the military vote and voter fraud, Obama stole another election. http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/46302 …DEMAND A RECOUNT! #VoterFraud

Sarah Palin News ‏@SarahPalinLinks People need to stop pointing fingers within the GOP and investigate the Dems' massive voter fraud and suppression of the military vote.


Mitt Romney tweets about election fraud:

Mitt Romney in 2012! ‏@PlanetRomney #tcot The Competent Conservative: Elections Have Not Yet Been Certified, Here’s What You Can Do:

>> These electi... http://bit.ly/Zzam8Y

http://thecompetentconservative.com/elections-have-not-yet-been-certified-heres-what-you-can-do/

Excerpt

These elections are NOT certified yet. The only way to get this investigated, much less recounted or overturned, is through the Secretary of State of each of the five key states: Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. EVEN IF YOU ARE IN ANOTHER STATE you can help. But it won’t do any good to dilute our effort to challenge California or Michigan or other states. Until a major group gets involved to do more, here is the plan: Contact the Secretary of State of the state in question. See contact information below...

(cont...see http://thecompetentconservative.com/elections-have-not-yet-been-certified-heres-what-you-can-do/)



Hannity and Col Allan West hit voter fraud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-aVy_s76ZY




Photo of Ethiopians brought to Ohio voting stations by busload, 95% of whom did not speak English, and told to vote for Obama, straight Dem ticket https://www.facebook.com/lori.patriot/posts/404694619604138<



Must watch videos!


VIDEO-- Programmer Testifies About Rigging Elections With Vote Counting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hbf3iaEbAuY



VIDEO- Illegal Aliens Caught Voting and Stealing Elections In Florida In Vast Numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ILJDudUpct0



VIDEO- Michael Savage: How Obama fixed the 2012 election: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dmJtaOO2etc



VIDEO- Massive voter fraud discovered in April:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ILJDudUpct0



VIDEO- Whistle blower speaks out about voter fraud: http://www.youtube.com/watch? feature=player_embedded&v=k_rMpQKqZhM





___________________________________________________


We can not wait for 2014 and 2016 to regroup and figure out new strategies. By then it will be too late. The Marxist/Muslim usurper will have completed his planned distruction of America. That's what people fail to understand.

We must act NOW.

Start with the election. If we let the Rats get away with this massive voter fraud, we're no better than a bananna republic.

We must keep digging and pounding him every day, in every way we can- phony birth certificate, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, his hidden life, records....

We are FReepers. We must fight!

Those who shrug and accept this atrocity without a fight are not worthy to be called Freepers!

Join us!! See the 'BARACK OBAMA FRAUD 2012- (MUST READ- MUST GO VIRAL!)' thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2957976/posts




15 posted on 11/13/2012 9:32:26 AM PST by patriot08 (Native Texas girl)
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To: jessduntno

“It’s the stupid irresponsible purists who wouldn’t vote for Romney that are certifiable.”

?? Read the article. All the evidence is that conservatives turned out. There’s other articles out there that are pretty clear that where R’s bombed was that white, working-class men did not, although they lean R. This was probably a candidate and negative-campaign issue. Despite having an attractive, capable, moderate establishment R running, we failed to turn out a key part of our base. I would speculate the working class white men responded to Obama’s class warfare message.


16 posted on 11/13/2012 9:32:32 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Theoria

Still pathetic. Party identification was +6 GOP two weeks ago, yet final voting balance was D+6.


17 posted on 11/13/2012 9:32:38 AM PST by BlueStateRightist
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To: neverdem

How is this a surprise? Romney lost to McCain in 2008. McCain lost to Obama in 2008. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that Romney was a bad candidate to run against Obama in 2012.


18 posted on 11/13/2012 9:34:19 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: onyx

All these aftermath analysis are always off first of all the turn out was a lot lower than in 2008 and Obama didn’t win by the same amount either.

Fact is ROMNEY DID BETTER THAN MCCAIN percentage wise.

Romney won more states and had more electoral votes than McCain and his margin of loss was smaller in states like FL, OH, VA, and in PA.

Noway did McCain do better except in the amount of votes and again that’s due to turnout on both sides. McCain’s EV was paltry and his margin of loss in states like FL, OH, and VA weren’t close.


19 posted on 11/13/2012 9:34:21 AM PST by snarkytart
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To: patriot08

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2957976/posts";

B U M P


20 posted on 11/13/2012 9:36:25 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker ((God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.))
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To: 9422WMR

Fraud is never okay but the small amount that occurs is not enough to win if we GOTV. You keep chasing your tail and sounding like DUmpster and their Diebold machine conspiracy.
I’d rather work on realityh and GOTV like we did in 2010 and for the Walker recall.


21 posted on 11/13/2012 9:36:42 AM PST by snarkytart
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To: 9422WMR

I think fraud must be the most plausible explanation. Sure, there are some hard cores that did not vote for Romney, but my impression was that Romney was a far, far superior candidate than was McCain. McCain was every bit as limp on conservative issues as Romney, but McCain ran an even less confrontational campaign than Romney. But it is very, very odd that BOTH McCain AND Romney essentially quit at the very end as if the fix was in.


22 posted on 11/13/2012 9:37:27 AM PST by RatRipper (Self-centeredness, greed, envy, deceit and lawless corruption has killed this once great nation.)
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To: neverdem
Additional votes are still coming in, but, as of the time of my writing, Romney received around 57.8 million votes in 2012. In 2008, John McCain received 59.9 million. Romney got over 2 million fewer votes than McCain. And in the final count, he will almost certainly have received considerably fewer votes than McCain.

Sigh. Add yet another author to the incompetent moron brigade.

It's basically mathemetically certain that Romney will have ended up with more votes than McCain.

23 posted on 11/13/2012 9:38:41 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: neverdem

“That’s where the hurt comes. It appears to mean that our side lost because we failed to turn out our side.”

maybe a simple phrase is apt in this situation

“an echo not a choice”

This comes from Romney’s approach to handling the charge from Obama that so much of the economic ills are from what “he inherited from the previous administration”.

Romney’s response on this was so weak that at the most it only said - “well it wasn’t me either”.

In other words, Romney never forcefully attacked the premise - things were bad because of what Obama inherited.

Failing a forceful attack on that premise, he was not making that much of an example for why Romney.

Just thinkin - opinion not set in stone.


24 posted on 11/13/2012 9:40:46 AM PST by Wuli
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To: jessduntno
It’s the stupid irresponsible purists who wouldn’t vote for Romney that are certifiable.

They're certifiable, but they are also a minority of a minority of a minority, and politically irrelevant.

25 posted on 11/13/2012 9:41:16 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: neverdem

I wonder who all those people standing in long lines voted for. Most of the news I watched showed and talked about the long lines and long waits for people to get in to vote. Where’d those votes go?


26 posted on 11/13/2012 9:45:42 AM PST by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Strategerist

Long Lines and Less votes. Does not make sense. Reports from voters was pretty consistent. Nearly all reported much greater turnout than in 2008. Much longer waiting time than in 2008. Many reported the largest crowds they had ever seen in 2012. Something smells about the count. THE FOREIGNER receiving less votes than 2008 makes sense and would support his losing the independent vote. ROMNEY getting equal or less votes than McCAIN does not support the independent switch to his side.


27 posted on 11/13/2012 9:46:49 AM PST by spawn44 (moo)
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To: jeffc
I wonder who all those people standing in long lines voted for. Most of the news I watched showed and talked about the long lines and long waits for people to get in to vote. Where’d those votes go?

They haven't been counted yet.

California has over 3 million uncounted ballots.

If you go to the CNN election results page, a wide variety of states have less than 90% of their ballots counted, including New York.

Most states don't have official certified election results until late Novemeber/early December.

This actually happened in 2008 but people didn't notice - the total votes ended up considerably higher than the total votes reported the day after the election. But with the growth in mail-in voting an even higher percentage of votes are now counted weeks after the election.

28 posted on 11/13/2012 9:49:14 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: spawn44

In my analysis Romney should end up with at least 62 million votes, or over 2 million more than McCain. Of course, Obama will end up with millions more votes than the 62 million he has now.

As I’ve pointed out in numerous posts and threads, there’s no mystery about this, and the day-after vote totals being millions less than the final certified vote total is routine.

What’s new this election is the proliferation of worthless articles by assorted “conservative” idiots comparing the 2012 day-after vote total with the final certified vote total from 2008, and then trying to find a cause for something that didn’t happen.


29 posted on 11/13/2012 9:53:51 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: ModelBreaker

Good analysis; class warfare is a winner for Democrats, or they wouldn’t use it. Our little Republican Party just can’t figure out much of anything, it seems.


30 posted on 11/13/2012 10:07:45 AM PST by Theodore R. (Once again the American people have been found sorely wanting. I think it will continue.)
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To: neverdem

I understand why you feel that way, but polling showed only 4 percent of the public cared about Foreign Policy this time. So I can see why the Romney campaign didn’t jump on it. Turns out it was a mistake, but I can see why they made it.


31 posted on 11/13/2012 10:12:35 AM PST by Crimson Elephant
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To: snarkytart
THREAD
32 posted on 11/13/2012 10:24:17 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: fatima; Fresh Wind; st.eqed; xsmommy; House Atreides; Nowhere Man; South Hawthorne; PaulZe; ...

PA Ping!

If you want on/off the PA Ping List, please freepmail me.

If you see posts of interest to Pennsylvanians, please ping me.

Thanks!


33 posted on 11/13/2012 10:25:46 AM PST by randita
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To: jessduntno
We didn’t vote. It’s our own stupid fault.

We know that the votes were not recorded, we do not know that they did not vote.

Voting Machines create tyrannies not Republics.

If there were a single GOPe spokesperson showing any outrage over fraudulent elections, I might be a little less cynical.

34 posted on 11/13/2012 10:32:00 AM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: neverdem

I guess some people hate Romney more than they love America. Sad.


35 posted on 11/13/2012 10:34:05 AM PST by RPTMS
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To: TexasCajun

IMHO the Ron Paul voters stayed home. Gov Palin advised Gov Romney when he won the nomination to respect the RR supporters and bring them back into the fold. During convention the GOP establishment by voice vote changed the party rules to erect more barriers for non establishment candidates. Move was aimed at the growing Ron Paul faction in the GOP. State GOP replaced RR delegates after they won some of the disricts during the primaries. The GOP do not want any RR visible and will destroy any beachhead in their party that will offend Wall Street bankers and proponents fo the Fed Reserve. Money talks BS walks.


36 posted on 11/13/2012 10:34:21 AM PST by Fee
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To: TexasCajun

IMHO the Ron Paul voters stayed home. Gov Palin advised Gov Romney when he won the nomination to respect the RR supporters and bring them back into the fold. During convention the GOP establishment by voice vote changed the party rules to erect more barriers for non establishment candidates. Move was aimed at the growing Ron Paul faction in the GOP. State GOP replaced RR delegates after they won some of the disricts during the primaries. The GOP do not want any RR visible and will destroy any beachhead in their party that will offend Wall Street bankers and proponents fo the Fed Reserve. Money talks BS walks.


37 posted on 11/13/2012 10:34:59 AM PST by Fee
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To: jessduntno
It’s the stupid irresponsible purists who wouldn’t vote for Romney that are certifiable.

100 years of election maps, by county

38 posted on 11/13/2012 10:36:29 AM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: neverdem

Should read, Palin beats Romney.


39 posted on 11/13/2012 10:41:57 AM PST by Dapper 26
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To: neverdem
"..It appears to mean that our side lost because we failed to turn out our side."

What it means is that you cant win elections WITHOUT the base. I would even argue you can't win without a highly motivated base. Nominating a conservative is what motivates the base.

THE SMALL GAIN IN MODERATES DID NOT OFFSET THE LOSE OF CONSERVATIVES!

This is a lesson that the GOP-e refuses to learn.

40 posted on 11/13/2012 10:46:46 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: snarkytart
Fraud is never okay but the small amount that occurs is not enough to win if we GOTV.

Would you please get a hold of that whiner Alan West and tell him a little fraud is OK.

41 posted on 11/13/2012 10:49:48 AM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: jessduntno

It’s your fault for forcing another RINO on conservatives. And this one was pro-homosexual and pro-abortion and pro-open borders and wanted to provide big-box-store jobs to the masses.

Do it again and you’ll get the same results.


42 posted on 11/13/2012 10:53:15 AM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: jessduntno

I said it before, and I will say it again. I am a conservative. If the GOP nominates a conservative, I will vote for them. However, the GOP decided to nominate THEIR socialist in hopes that THEIR socialist would be the DEM Socialist.

I did not, and will not ever vote for a socialist FROM ANY party. I have traveled to and have lived and worked in Europe and I know and have seen first hand socialism. I will not be apart of supporting any form of socialist or their candidates.

You want my vote, fine, nominate a candidate I can support. Until then, the GOP can continue to lose election after election until they learn the lesson.


43 posted on 11/13/2012 10:54:02 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Strategerist
In my analysis Romney should end up with at least 62 million votes, or over 2 million more than McCaint.

In my analysis Romney was not running against McCain.

44 posted on 11/13/2012 10:54:08 AM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: ModelBreaker

“Despite having an attractive, capable, moderate establishment R running, we failed to turn out a key part of our base.”

What, you mean they didn’t know it was election day? Please. We’re screwed for a generation..the SCOTUS, the economy, all of it.


45 posted on 11/13/2012 11:03:26 AM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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To: donna

“It’s your fault for forcing another RINO on conservatives. And this one was pro-homosexual and pro-abortion and pro-open borders and wanted to provide big-box-store jobs to the masses. Do it again and you’ll get the same results.”

Please. We’re screwed for a generation..the SCOTUS, the economy, all of it. We may not get a chance to do it again. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And reckless.


46 posted on 11/13/2012 11:05:18 AM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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To: snarkytart

In 2008 there was no way to win, the GOP was doomed, and the first black president was making history.

In 2012, there was no way the GOP could lose, Carter II was doomed and the country approaching depression.

Mitt Romney, the failed governor of Massachusetts, who lost his chance for reelection and left office with 34% approval, and who has won a single election in 20 years of campaigning, was the problem, he was an artificial construct who had never been a part of republican or conservative politics, who was only focused on a personal drive to be president for no known reason or purpose.

We still don’t know what his politics are, or why he has been obsessed with being president for 20 years.

People here have different feelings on his election disaster, but everyone here can agree that they really don’t know anything about the man himself, or how the one term governor from Massachusetts ever came to be the leader of the conservative/republican agenda in America.

Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, and the anti-Reagan wing of the GOP are behind this mystery of the last 6 years in regards to William Weld’s protege, Mitt Romney.


47 posted on 11/13/2012 11:08:10 AM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: neverdem

Is it possible that a huge number of the base didn’t want to vote for a Mormon?


48 posted on 11/13/2012 11:11:49 AM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: jessduntno

The GOP-E tossed morality out and expected conservatives to go along against very specific moral objections. How could the GOP-E have fooled itself so?


49 posted on 11/13/2012 11:11:49 AM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: donna

“(Kudos to Rush Limbaugh, who noticed and is hitting this point hard.) Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election not so much because he got fewer votes than Barack Obama but because he got fewer votes than John McCain in 2008.”

Four more years of Marxist philosophy shoved into our kids, ObamaCare, economic destruction, John Kerry as Sec. of Defense, a shredded military and AT LEAST 2 maybe 3 more liberal (probably young enough to screw us into oblivion for thirty or forty YEARS) and YOU’RE complaining about the foolish GOP-e? This will teach them, alright. Yep. Nice work. This will teach them GOOD!


50 posted on 11/13/2012 11:19:16 AM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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