Barbarians at the Gate: Embracing Our New Barbarian Overlords

I'm feeling rather pessimistic today. Call it sour grapes. So pessimistic, in fact, that you might just call it out right doom and gloom. With an outlook on life and politics and the prospects for our country that usually I just laugh at. Not apocalyptic, per se, but something approaching that.

100 years after the Roman Empire fell there was still something lingering around calling itself the "Roman Empire". 500 years after Rome fell, there was something still calling itself the "Roman Empire". Over a thousand years after Rome fell, there were still people around speaking as if their country was really Rome.

In the East, the "Roman Empire" didn't end until 1453 with the fall of Constantinople.

In the West, the "Roman Empire" didn't end until Napoleon's victory at Austerlitz in 1805 over the last "Holy Roman" Emperor.

Farther East and North, the last Caesar ruled until 1917, when Czar (Czar = Caesar in Russian) Nicholas Romanov (= son of the Romans) II abdicated.

That is to say, the fiction of Rome lasted far longer than Rome itself. The idea of Rome being much more powerful than the actuality.

I can't help but wonder if America does ever fall, will the people living through it realize it is gone? That what future "Americans" call "America" will actually just be a fiction created by them as a way for them to try to reclaim some of the greatness that was once this thing called America? And that transition to the new fiction from the old reality will be lost on many who live through it?

If that is the case, and the America of the future is only related to the America of the past through the fictions we ourselves create, then is there really any hope?

Sure. Think of the Visigoths who sacked Rome, but who 150 years later were living in Gaul speaking Latin. Or better yet, the Ostrogoths who sacked true Rome for the last time, settled down on the Italian peninsula, and taught their children Latin.

100 years after Justinian briefly took Italy back from the Ostrogoths for Eastern Rome, you'd be hard pressed to find any one on the peninsula with even the faintest memory of their Germanic roots.

Further, the Romans didn't just go away. They didn't all die. The new invaders and the old Romans simply ... got on with life. They traded with one another. They lived side by side. They intermarried. Until finally, there were no more Romans and no more barbarians. In their wake they left us the English, the French, the Italians, and so on and so on.

And you know what? The ideas and ideals of Rome were so powerful that they live on today. In us.

As we become more and more like Europe, and less and less like the country that was founded on the principle that we are not Europe, then if there is any hope then it is this: that even as we become more like them, they are becoming more like us.

At some point in the future it will be our ideas which are remembered and venerated. That the fiction of America will long outlast any of its competition. And it will be our children and our children's children which will carry the blood of true America in their veins, even if it is mixed with the blood of those who destroyed the very thing which they will one day idealize.

Maybe this whole analogy is way off. I hope so. Maybe the future has something else completely in store for us. Maybe the next American renaissance is just around the corner. Or maybe we'll all be speaking Chinese.

I really couldn't tell you. But for now my faith is no longer in America continuing as the greatest nation on Earth. I just don't see it happening.

Yes, I see your post was as much about talking with people about Christ as political issues. It is interesting that the same issue with faith, the denial of reality, is a function of world-view.

The two biggest issues in the world today are moral relativism and denial of an objective truth. These are being taught everyday in our schools at every level. The post modern mind is incapable of dealing with the world as it stands as they are unable to discern truth.

Young people are actually being taught that there is no objective truth. When confronted with the idea that the Bible is objective truth, even believers will accept this paradox. It can only be described as insanity.

It was as if satan himself was somehow involved.

schu

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies,

I suppose I two motives that seem to have extremely similar challenges at their core. One, as a Christian, is to help people find Christ for themselves and the other is to show certain individuals how destructive Liberal/Progressive policies are to a persons freedom.

I would like to continue our discussion since it seems at least we have a common understanding.

Overcoming the obstacles presented by our secular institutions, in my opinion, can only happen by either going around them or undermining their efforts. A great deal of forethought and creativeness may be required to craft, not so much a message, but an approach. I have some ideas that we can work on if you’re interested.

The one thing I’m certain of,you must know your audience and create an environment for a substantive discussion to begin. From this point it’s a matter of guiding someone to the logical conclusion. I hate to say it but, the process is a classic sales technique.

My goal would be to actually put together a manual or guide for people to follow when approaching people.

I would really like feedback and some insight as well.

I just now found this, it is really awesome!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMXTlIAN5Q0&feature=g-vrec

The concepts of how to approach those with differing world views is much like what I’m talking about.

While he is speaking about Christian Apologetics, the same principles need to be applied to political ideologies in America.

What are your foundations of belief ?

I'm interested.

The communists have succeeded in their five-decades-long march through the institutions. It's up to us to march through the institutions ourselves.

One thing that Christians can do now, that would have immediate and explosive impact, would be to homeschool their children. The benefit to children should be obvious. But another side benefit is that we would reduce the numbers of a powerful special interest group, government school teachers.

I am of the opinion that changing world-views to the point where people will consider voting for someone of a different view is a real challenge. I do not think it is entirely the same as a Christian conversion as we have a little “help” from the Holy Spirit if it gets to that point.

The problem is we have had 50+ years of institutionalized leftism. Overcoming this inherent advantage will take several generations. In short, I believe it is nearly hopeless to effect change in these institutions given the status quo.

Education, media, government and big business are so infected with the leftist/statist world-view that only a “significant emotional event” (SEE) would evoke even a possibility of a world view change. A long time ago I attended a series of seminars on this topic by Massey, his point is that without this SEE our world view is based upon the nature of the world during those formative years between ages 7 and 12. What You Are Is Where You Were When.

A growing majority of the people have been indoctrinated with this leftist view, they really do not understand what it means or why as it is primarily based upon emotion and feelings. These guys are VERY GOOD at this charade and here we are.

Now this SEE is more than likely to occur sometime in the not-do-distant future given the direction the country has taken. War, economic calamity, large scale social disruption are all things that could spark change. It is not guaranteed that we will collectively move in a direction where a greater amount of liberty is the majority view, however.

I wish you guys the best of luck, but I am a pessimist and I think the die has been cast. Hope I am wrong.

schu

schu,

While I agree with virtually everything you have said and I know there’s more. I can’t help but to think that since Christian Apologetics can be very effective, so can Conservative Apologetics. The process of breaking down a persons flawed logic is almost exactly the same.

And who’s to say that the Holy Spirit would not be with us in the effort to bring people closer to the founding principals of this great nation. Providence, after all,was set in the heart of the framers.

I have many ideas to get people to start to think for themselves. This BTW, is the biggest challenge.

If your still up to providing feedback, I think it would be best to take our discussion to FR mail.

Look forward to hearing from you

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