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Catholics Turn on the One
Breitbart Big Government ^ | Nov. 1, 2012 | Joel B. Pollack

Posted on 11/02/2012 8:33:44 PM PDT by Rob in Arizona

Catholic voters have reason to feel particularly aggrieved, given the Obama administration’s battle with the Catholic church over the mandate in Obamacare that employers cover abortion drugs and contraceptives. Those grievances came to the fore particularly sharply in mid-October, after the Vice Presidential debate between incumbent Democrat Joe Biden and Republican challenger Paul Ryan (both Catholics). Ryan brought up the conflict between the administration and the church over Obamacare: “They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.” Biden’s response was total denial: With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy--any hospital--none has to either refer contraception. None has to pay for contraception. None has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact. That is a fact. Ryan responded simply: “If they agree with you, then why would they keep--why would they keep suing you?” The church responded at greater length, with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops publicly disputing Biden’s “fact”: This is not a fact. The HHS mandate contains a narrow, four-part exemption for certain "religious employers." That exemption was made final in February and does not extend to "Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital," or any other religious charity that offers its services to all, regardless of the faith of those served.

(Excerpt) Read more at cdn.breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; FReeper Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; 2012polls; catholic; catholicvote; obama; romney
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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In this comment, I hope to spark any Catholics and like-minded Christians still on the fence to vote for Romney. Some labor under the impression that Obama does not want to see Catholic hospitals, schools, and charities close their doors, and the U.S. bishops are crying wolf.

I am convinced that the President's HHS mandate is not accidental, but deliberate. He knows that (1) Catholic bishops will not betray their principles and provide hospital, school, and charity employees health insurance that includes the funding abortion and birth control; and (2) the Church will pay the huge fines until they have no choice to close the doors to all of these institutions.

Why?

With Obamacare, there will be fewer doctors, rationing of scarcer health care, and ever-increasing costs of an increasingly older citizenry. Who will cost/expend the most of these dwindling resources? The answer:

(1)Unborn children whose prenatal care reveals abnormalities and health problems that will cost the system every year of their life. (It happens: last year, doctors encouraged my sister-in-law and brother to abort their son because they thought he had Downs Syndrome and other ailments; they refused, but he was born with many birth defects).

(2) The elderly whose productive days are long in the past, but whose visits to the doctor's office are weekly, not annually.

(3) The chronically ill.

To curtail the costs incurred by the first category, HHS will want doctors to encourage abortions--that will never happen in a Catholic hospital.

To curtail the costs of the elderly and the chronic ill, HHS will deny them the level of care they now enjoy and encourage euthanasia--again something the Church will never sanction at its hospitals.

Thus, the best way to keep costs down is to get the Catholic Church (and like-minded Christians) out of health care entirely.

As for schools, close down the parochial schools and you have no debates about voucher programs and school choice, less competition for teacher union power, and an education system that can dispense with outdated Judeo-Christian values.

Finally, close down the non-profits, you increase dependence on government programs--and make the so-called 47% a super-majority big government electorate.

What is so scary about this is that Obama is attacking the Church on a doctrinal point that few Catholics actually follow or agree with: the use of artificial birth control. The public has swallowed the media's attempt to frame the issue as about birth control and the Church trying to deny them reproductive freedom. Even my most intelligent friends fail to see that the actual issue is about the First Amendment and the unconstitutional attempt to force an employer to violate his institution's or his own personal religious beliefs in subjugation of a secular government's decree. (They finally see the point when I ask them if I have a Second Amendment right to own a gun or a First Amendment right to free speech (they agree), and then when I inquire whether I have a right to receive their tax dollars to buy a Glock handgun or air time on a radio station to express my political views.)

We need to see why Obama is doubling down against the Catholic Church and other Christians before it's too late.

1 posted on 11/02/2012 8:33:51 PM PDT by Rob in Arizona
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To: Rob in Arizona

I’m a Catholic and it has long frustrated me that so many of my fellow Catholics seem to migrate to the Democrats. Never ever understood that.


2 posted on 11/02/2012 8:35:31 PM PDT by JaguarXKE (If my Fluffy had a puppy, it would look like the puppy Obama ate!r)
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To: JaguarXKE

I’m not Catholic but don’t understand how people like Biden are still accepted in the church ...


3 posted on 11/02/2012 8:42:12 PM PDT by 11th_VA (Keep your laws OFF my Big Gulp !)
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To: 11th_VA

“I’m not Catholic but don’t understand how people like Biden are still accepted in the church ...”

-

That’s how I used to feel about most of the Kennedy men.

.


4 posted on 11/02/2012 8:44:35 PM PDT by Mears
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To: JaguarXKE

“I’m a Catholic and it has long frustrated me that so many of my fellow Catholics seem to migrate to the Democrats. Never ever understood that.”

I am also wondering why “Catholics” like Joe Biden get to remain members in good standing when they should be excommunicated. I know of no instance where a Catholic politician was excommunicated for openly speaking in opposition to his church’s doctrines. I’d make a donation if they would kick out both Biden and Pelosi.


5 posted on 11/02/2012 8:45:29 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

We need the good people anyways. :) Sympathise with you, but I chose to join because the Catholic church is the strongest bulwark against this administration.


6 posted on 11/02/2012 8:50:40 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge

The only reason the Democrats control the big cities is because of their control of the Catholic vote. The party would be dead without it.


7 posted on 11/02/2012 8:54:03 PM PDT by arrogantsob (The Disaster MUST Go. Sarah herself supports Romney.)
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To: JaguarXKE

In many elections there are situations where all of the available candidates take morally unacceptable positions on one or more of the non-negotiable issues.
In such situations, a citizen is called upon to make tough choices. In those cases, citizens must vote in the way that will most limit the harm that would be done by the available candidates.

Now, imagine a situation wherein one candidate has a record of fighting for unrestricted access to abortion, and the other candidate would only consider allowing abortion in the cases of rape or incest.

This is simply an example of a situation where all of the available candidates take a morally unacceptable position, but one will most limit the harm that would be done.

We now have leaders in America, like ArchBishop Chaput, who understand that “Social Justice” doesn’t mean substituting charity with corrupt gov’t programs, that buy votes, but help nobody.


8 posted on 11/02/2012 9:02:07 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: vette6387

HHS’s Sebellius was excommunicated by her bishop.

The larger question is: What should Christian churches do about their members, politicians or not, who support abortion?


9 posted on 11/02/2012 9:07:31 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: arrogantsob

Nonsense. What demographic does Portland Oregon and NYC have in common?


10 posted on 11/02/2012 9:11:09 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: D-fendr

“The larger question is: What should Christian churches do about their members, politicians or not, who support abortion?”

Absolutely they should stand up for their beliefs. Membership isn’t automatic. If you don’t really believe in the teachings of your church, you ought to have the character to leave. But if you don’t you should be asked to go. Otherwise just what does the church become? In my view, a great big nothing!


11 posted on 11/02/2012 9:11:46 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: G Larry

Imagine you have two candidates. Both support slavery, one because it’s a unpleasant necessity, and the other, because they believe it’s essential to their way of life.

Who do you vote for?


12 posted on 11/02/2012 9:13:40 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JaguarXKE

Democrats look for social gospel suckers. And it’s not just a Catholic problem, it’s a fundamentalist problem.


13 posted on 11/02/2012 9:13:55 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (cat dog, cat dog, alone in the world is a little cat dog)
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To: vette6387

What about other sins?


14 posted on 11/02/2012 9:14:41 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Imagine not missing the point on purpose.

There would be 45 million more babies alive today under Romney’s “exceptions”.


15 posted on 11/02/2012 9:19:59 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: JCBreckenridge

False choice because, in your scenerio, both candidates support the equal amount of slaves for different reasons.

In the case of abortion, it is one candidate who states only for rape, incest, life of the mother versus the other candidate who nor only supports unlimited abortion but also voted three times to murder late term babies born alive and outside of the mother’s body.

You vote for the candidate who will allow less evil to take place in our society.


16 posted on 11/02/2012 9:28:49 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: Tamzee

Put defunding the largest abortion mill in the mix.


17 posted on 11/02/2012 9:35:39 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: G Larry
Now, imagine a situation wherein one candidate has a record of fighting for unrestricted access to abortion, and the other candidate would only consider allowing abortion in the cases of rape or incest.

If in your imaginary scenario, the candidates are Obama and Romney, your assessment of Obama is correct but your assessment of where Romney stands is incomplete.

the other candidate (Romney) would only consider allowing abortion in the cases of rape or incest or health of the mother

. A distinction made that opens a hole big enough to drive a Mack truck through.

18 posted on 11/02/2012 9:40:49 PM PDT by Holly_P
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To: JCBreckenridge

I had not read your reply yet when I posted my #18.


19 posted on 11/02/2012 9:44:22 PM PDT by Holly_P
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To: D-fendr

And Biden has been excommunicated in several dioceses of Colorado. He cannot receive Communion there. Now if DC would just follow suit!


20 posted on 11/02/2012 9:48:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JaguarXKE
Simple. They do not understand their faith, leaving another to explain it for them. Do Catholics read the Bible? The ones I know do not. I am not being harsh and I love my Catholic breathren, just a thought.
21 posted on 11/02/2012 9:48:45 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: JCBreckenridge

Immigrants


22 posted on 11/02/2012 9:49:08 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: vette6387
I know this is aa long, long list of FR links. But in scanning it you will see that from the very beginning of this HHS fiasco -- till this next Sunday -- Bishops are growing spines! Pray for them!



(Arlington VA) Bishop Loverde's pre-election letter
Catholic Caucus: Letter Bishop Dan Jenky is requiring to be read Sunday by priests[Peoria]
Bishop [Daniel Jenky] to Pro-Abort Catholic Politicians, Bureaucrats, Voters: ‘God Is Not Mocked’
Catholic Bishop: Vote for Obama “Stretches the Imagination” [DiMarzio of Brooklyn]
Why Catholics Can’t Comply with the HHS Mandate
Bishop David Ricken: “This Could Put Your Own Soul in Jeopardy.” [Catholics voting anti-life]
Green Bay bishop urges parishioners to vote against candidates who support abortion, gay marriage
Archbishop Chaput: ‘We Are Catholics Before We Are Americans’
Archbishop Chaput: Democrats have ‘gotten worse’ on abortion because Catholics haven’t left
Uruguay bishops say lawmakers who support abortion are excommunicated
Cardinal George warns US secularization is more serious than elections
Conservatives Praise Billy Graham’s Call to ‘Vote Biblical Values’
Miami archdiocese sues over 'real threat' from HHS mandate
Ontario Bishop Mulhall: We Won’t Let the Government Define Catholic Teaching
Bishop to Biden: No Communion in Colorado Springs Diocese
Archbishop Lori says attacks on life, liberty directly linked
Catholic bishops: Biden’s debate remark on contraception mandate not true

(Archbishop) Chaput: Don’t Let Biden Get Away With Misleading on HHS Mandate
Why the Little Sisters of the Poor Oppose the HHS Mandate
USCCB Responds To Inaccurate Statement Of Fact On HHS Mandate Made During Vice Presidential Debate
Latest Challenge to HHS Mandate Rejected by Federal Court: A Sign of What’s to Come?
Baptist Colleges Sue Obama Admin Over HHS-Abortion Mandate
Who Are We?: Catholic Faith in Light of the HHS Mandate
The New Catholic Debate Over the HHS Mandate
s it Moral to Comply with the HHS Mandate?
Bishop Paprocki warns of 'intrinsic evils' in Democratic platform
Moral Implications of US Health Mandate Weighed by Ethics Panel [Advises Businesses Drop Coverage] Obama Campaign Speech: No Compromise on Abortion Mandate
Pope: U.S. faces threats to religious freedom of ‘unprecedented gravity’
Catholic Group [Priests for Life] to Defy New Obamacare Pro-Abortion Mandate
Federal District Court Upholds Arizona Abortion Restrictions
Catholic business owners score win against ObamaCare mandate
Catholic business owners score win against ObamaCare mandate
First Plaintiff Beats Obama HHS-Abortion Mandate in Court (Breaking News!)
University kills insurance plan for students over Obamacare provisions
National Catholic Register on HHS Mandate - This Shall Not Stand!
Evangelical heavyweight sues: Wheaton College files 24th lawsuit against HHS mandate

Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Law Prof at Catholic College Says Bishops Crossing Church/State Line, Suggests Penalties
Some Lutherans Back Catholic Position on Contraceptive Mandate
Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Government cannot take away true freedom, Archbishop Chaput teaches
Repair my house: renewing the roots of religious liberty
Bishops Take on Soros
USCCB responds to group funded by George Soros which issued talking points ...
New Video: HHS Mandate and Religious Liberty

"Open Letter on Religious Freedom" (Religious leaders protest HHS mandate)
Michele Bachmann: Washington is taking notice of HHS mandate backlash (exclusive) Religious Freedom Reaffirmed; US Bishops Unanimous
Catholic Health Association reverses course on mandate accommodation
Catholic Bishops Gather With Focus on Obama Birth-Control Measure
Bishops, That is a Pretty Nice Tax Exemption You Have There. Wouldn’t Want Anything Bad ...
Florida Bishop Leads Opposition to Obamacare Mandate
Pelosi: Catholic Archdioceses Were Not ‘Speaking’ for Catholic Church When They Sued Administration
The HHS Mandate and Wily Providence
Religious liberty group launches massive HHS mandate site
NY Times Scolds Catholics, Calls HHS Mandate Lawsuits a “Stunt”
NY Times Editorial: Catholic Lawsuits Just "a Dramatic Stunt"
Archbishop: Networks 'missed the boat' on coverage of church's ObamaCare lawsuits
Religious freedom vs. Obamacare
U.S. Bishops Prepare Catholics for Civil Disobedience: ‘We May Need to Witness to the Truth by...’
On the Mandate, a Dangerous Crack in the Bishops' United Front
Surprise! MSM Ignoring Catholic Lawsuits against Government
Protecting Our Catholic Conscience in The Public Square
Notre Dame: Good News and Bad News
Legatus Files Federal Lawsuit Challenging the HHS Mandate

Boston Archdiocese Bails on Religious Freedom Lawsuit
Evangelicals respond to Catholic lawsuits: ‘We are all Catholic now’
Solidarity requires individual involvement, not state programs, Pope says
Catholic Caucus: 43 Catholic organizations [Notre Dame+] sue Obama over HHS
Cardinal Dolan, Cardinal Wuerl, Notre Dame, 40+ Catholic Organizations--Sue Obama
Profs at Jesuit universities lash out at bishops for opposing HHS mandate, gay ‘marriage’
The Declaration of Religious Independence
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Oakland Bishop: Abortion Next Mandated Health Benefit?
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Protest by Catholic activists may hamper Obama reelection bid (Organize! Mobilize! Go!)
Protest by Catholic activists may hamper Obama reelection bid
Catholic Bishops Take on Obama
[Connecticut] Bishops: Don't Make Catholic Hospitals Perform Abortions
Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois Bishop Daniel Jenky
Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop Jenky
Bishop Calls for ‘Heroic Catholicism,’ Rips Obama’s ‘Radical Pro-Abortion Agenda’
Bishops tell Catholics to disobey 'unjust laws
Bishops warned: Obama will seize assets, only proper response is "Courageous Defiance"

The Profound, Unapologetic and Timely Reflections of Archbishop Chaput [Catholics in Public Life]
Vatican Cardinal: If Catholic employers provide contraceptive coverage they cooperate in sin
Catholics Urged to Imitate St. Thomas More in Contraception Battle
Cardinal Dolan criticizes Obama contraception policy as ‘radical intrusion' (still)
Calling for Calm (Spokane's bishop wants to talk hot topics,...)
Gvmt minister (Canada) rebukes bishops on Catholic sexual teaching: ‘You’re not allowed to do that anymore!’
Pres. Obama invokes “social Darwinism”. Mr. President, look in the mirror.
WaPo Blog Says Jesus Would Support Obamacare
We Will NOT Render Unto Caesar What Belongs to God! [Archbishop Robert Carlson]
Dolan describes Obama’s about-face on contraception mandate>
(NY Cardinal) Dolan: ‘We Can’t Back Down’ (Appears on the O'Reilly Factor)
Obamacare Mandate in Deep Trouble
ACTION ITEM ALERT! Pres. Obama, through a minion, attacks Catholic chaplains once again
Contraception mandate violates federal law, say legal experts
Virginia AG: If Obama's Mandate Stands, the Gov't ‘Can Order You To Do Anything’
What the media doesn’t want you to know: Americans hate the HHS mandate
As Health Care Law’s Trial Approaches, Two-Thirds Say Ditch Individual Mandate
Catholic Bishops Declare Obama's 'Unjust and Illegal Mandate' 'A Violation of Personal Civil Rights'
Health-Care Challenge Evokes Roosevelt New Deal High Court Clash

First Secular Business Sues Over HHS Mandate
Evangelical leaders urged to mobilize against administration contraception policy
Obama Admin Widens Abortifacient Birth Control Mandate to College Students
Do They Know Who They’re Messing With? (Obama Administration vs. the Catholic Church?)
Religious Freedom and Protecting Healthcare for Women and Children
U.S. Catholic bishops pressured Komen breast cancer charity over Planned Parenthood
New York Times accused of Catholic bashing, double standard on religion
Liberal Catholics Spooked by United Bishops for Religious Freedom
US Bishops Dig-in on Threats Against Religious Liberty: USCCB Statement on HHS Mandate
US Bishops Decry ‘Illegal and Unjust’ HHS Mandate, Call for Prayer and Penance
President Obama Perplexed by 'War on Religion' Charges
No Compromise
BISHOPS DON’T BUDGE ON RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (Catholic Caucus)
Bishops Consider Broader Focus in Birth-Control Fight
Bishop [Lori] Hopes to Restart White House Contraception Talks
Obama Admin Finalizes Rules: $1 Abortions in ObamaCare
Obama's HHS mandate will destroy the Little Sisters of the Poor's ministry to the elderly
Amish, Ok. Catholics, No. (HHS Mandate)
Gloria Purvis: Opposing the Contraception Mandate
Ave Maria University Files Lawsuit Against Obama Administration
Obama’s Contraception Spin Machine (Administration misreads the Catholic Church yet again)
Obama the Apostate (Reckoning with the Catholic Church)

Dolan: White House invoked support of “enlightened” Catholics in refusing to budge on mandate
Deadly health risks for women: The unspoken side of the Obama birth control mandate
HHS mandate threatens Little Sisters of the Poor elder care
The Noise-to-Signal Ratio at the USCCB
Catholic Missionary Suing Government Willing to Risk Health (Crohn's) Over HHS Mandate
Cardinal Dolan: White House Lectured My USCCB Staff On How to Interpret Catholic Teaching
Obama Admin lectures Card. Dolan and USCCB. Dolan responds. (Fr Z Fisking of Article)
HHS mandate could close 13 percent of the nation’s hospitals
Bishop Lori rips America editorial on HHS mandate Priest warns Obama: Better knock the Catholic Church out now - you’ve awakened the giant
Irony - Bar Boots Denver Bishop giving private talk on threats to religious liberty
Top U.S. Bishop to All Bishops: ‘We Did Not Ask for This Fight, But We Will Not Run From It’
Obama Risks $100 Billion If Catholic Hospitals Close
Catholic bishops exhort faithful to oppose Obamacare in a Sunday message
Congress Told HHS Mandate Fines Could Total $620,000
Cardinal Dolan blasts White House contraception plan as 'freedom of religion battle'
The Coming Persecution (a priest's projection on what is to come if Obama re-elected)
The HHS Mandate: Cardinal George and the Bishops Are Fighting the Last War (Excellent Analysis)
Cardinal Dolan indicates possible legal actions; rebuffs "cave-in" Catholics
From Cardinal Dolan: “We Have to be Realistic and Prepare for Tough Times…”

Biden: We 'Screwed up' Contraception Mandate
Priest To Planned Parenthood: ‘Here Comes The Catholic Church’
The Catholic Diaspora and the Tragedy of Liberal Catholicism
A sermon explaining what Pres. Obama is doing.
Holder: 1st Amendment Allows Gov't to Force Catholics to Buy Sterilizat-Contracept-Abortn Insurance
Sebelius Excludes Bishops From Obamacare Mandate Compromise Talks
On "Things Not Subject to Human Government"
Church Could Be Forced To 'Give Up' Public Work, Cardinal George Warns
Cardinal George: No Catholic Hospitals in 2 Years Unless HHS Mandate is Rescinded
The Way Freedom of Religion Should Work
Religious Liberty Homily
Obama Faces More Lawsuits Over Pro-Abortion HHS Mandate
Pope Benedict Defends Religious Liberty
The Sisters and Universal Health Care: Forgetting What Religion Is
Time Magazine Op-Ed: Perhaps “Some Time in Jail” for Catholic Bishops Defending Religious Liberty
Baptist College Sues Over Contraceptive Mandate
Government Assault May Have Just Begun, Cardinal Dolan Warns
Responding to Your Questions for MORE! (Eblast from Grace Before Meals priest)
Seven states, Catholic plaintiffs file largest lawsuit against HHS mandate
Catholic CEO calls mandate compromise 'divide and conquer' strategy

Catholic Bishop's Prez: Our Rights Don’t Depend on Obama
Obama's defense of religion {Mega BARF-Alert - talk about spin...}
Contraception and the Culture War [Deepening Catholic-Evangelical Relationship]
Cardinal Timothy Dolan issues strongest statement yet against the HHS mandate
Clergy Declare State of Emergency for Churches Over Obama Demands
Father, We're Ready for that Homily on Contraception Now
Contraception, Against Conscience [Why EWTN Will Not Comply With Obama's Mandate]
Bishops Decry Obama birth Control Plan, Yet Catholic Hospitals Report Sterilizations
The Catholic Betrayal of Religious Freedom
Obama Responds to Belmont Abbey Lawsuit. Epic Fail.
Catholic Charities Insists it has not Endorsed HHS Mandate
Chaput emerging as a warrior-bishop
Archbishop Chaput: It’s not a ‘compromise,’ and it needs to be rescinded
Pro-Abortion Fingerprints on HHS Mandate
Dem (Congressman) Scolds Bishop (at House Oversight hearin)
Evangelicals & Catholics Together: In Defense of Religious Freedom (vs. Islam, Secularism)
Catholic priest, pro-life activists arrested outside White House protesting Obama mandate
Obama Contradicted: HHS Banned Consideration of ‘Cost Effectiveness’ in Developing Contraception
BREAKING: Every Single Bishop Has Condemned the Obama/HHS Mandate!
Pro-life nuns: We’re not exempt - Obama mandate would force us ‘to pay for abortion-inducing drugs’

Contraception ruling: Democrats accuse clergy of complicity with GOP at hearing
Catholic League on Sebelius’s admission before a Senate committee
Voris: Obama Able to Neutralize Catholic Resistance Thanks to Bishops’ Past Complicity
Abortion, Contraception and the Church Fathers (Catholic teaching unchanged for 2000 yrs)
Head of U.S. bishops: Obama compromise on mandate ‘a hill of beans’; opposition intensifies
USCCB President: 'Harder and Harder' to Accept Obama's Word
White House Criticizes Bishops, Trumpets Support from CHA, Catholic Charities
Political Science 101: how the White House snookered the USCCB on the 'compromise'
What Did CHA's Carol Keehan Know and When Did She Know It?
Pope Shares Remarks on American Culture with Bishops; Issues Call to Laity By: Msgr. Charles Pope
USCCB President says Obama offered next to nothing; expresses disappointment with Sr. Keehan
Evangelical Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience Against U.S. Government
Liberal Jews Speak Against HHS Mandate
Top nun who supported Obama mandate thanks pro-choice group in private e-mail
Catholic Health Association collaboration with Obama admin on mandate a ‘scandal’: Catholic leader
Obama's revised HHS mandate won't solve problems, USCCB president says
Fr. Frank Pavone: No compromise - the mandate has to go, period
Time To Admit It: The Church Has Always Been Right On Birth Control
Culture with Local Bishops and Issues a Call to the Laity [Ecumenical]
Bishops Reject Obama's 'Accommodation' - President's political hemorrhaging to continue.

HHS Mandate - Nothing Has Changed (Donald Cardinal Weurl)
Obama Chief of Staff: New Pro-Abortion Mandate Here to Stay
WH: We Are Done Negotiating With Catholics
Opponents launch new White House petition rejecting Obama rewrite of birth control mandate
Did the Leaders of the Catholic Church Make a Deal with the Redistributionist Devil?
Archbishop Chaput: HHS mandate insulting and dangerous
Cardinal-Designate Dolan no longer trusts Obama
American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
Notre Dame Faculty to Obama: ‘This Is a Grave Violation of Religious Freedom and Cannot Stand’
White House: No More Compromise on Contraception
Obama's anti-religious implosion
Lew: Obama's latest stance on birth-control mandate final, puts issue to rest (CAPTION)
Pat Buchanan: 'Obama is trampling on God's turf' (Video)
W.H. official: Contraceptive rule stands
Obama chief of staff: No more compromise, contraceptive rule is done deal
Bishops Reject White House’s New Plan on Contraception (Obama continues his "War On Religion")
Faith/Pro-Life Leaders to Challenge Mandate by Praying and Risking Arrest in Front of the WH
Catholic Bishops: Don't Revise, Rescind
Obama's contempt for the Constitution
How the Catholic Church Became Cool Overnight

Chuck Colson Reacts to Obama’s “Compromise” on Required Abortion Care for Church Employees
US Bishops: Obama's 'Compromise' Has No Clear Protection...(Needless Government Intrusion)
Protests Continue Over Insurance for Contraception, Abortifacients (Feds Under Increasing Pressure
Bishops to Obama: No dice
Paul VI: “danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities ...”
Michael Moore Goes On Anti-Catholic Twitter Rant, Distorts Contraception Debate
Religious controversy burns Obama again (the rookie Hussein is in WAY over his pay grade)
Another Catholic college vows it will ‘not violate conscience’ on Obama mandate
Lutherans join chorus of voices slamming HHS contraceptive mandate
The Obama HHS 'Compromise' Switches the Tiger for the Lion (Not all Catholics buying Obama's bull)
Hannity on now with Priests, Pastors and Rabbis. Please watch
EDITORIAL: Obama’s free abortion pills
U.S. bishops ‘express concerns’ about Obama mandate ‘accommodation’
What Compromise? This Policy Leaves Religious Liberty in Peril and Planned Parenthood Smiling (Albert Mohler Opinion)
Bishops Renew Call To Legislative Action On Religious Liberty
Southern Baptist leader: Obama gave Christians ‘the dismissive back’ of his hand
Obama's Act of Tyranny
Bishops Were Prepared for Battle Over Birth Control Coverage
'Accounting gimmick' -- Obama compromise still threatens religious liberty, leaders say
Bishops ‘concerned’ over reworded mandate; other Catholic leaders slam as ‘insult to injury’
Obama Bows to Pressure, but His Religious 'Accommodation' Even Worse

Don't Be Deceived! Evil Obama Policy Now Even MORE Evil!
Obama’s Contraceptive 'Compromise' Doesn't Pass the Smell Test ("It doesn't change a thing")
Compromise or Accommodation, it’s still unacceptable. (updated from Catholic Vote)
Pres. Obama’s “Plan B” compromise, Sr. Keehan, and the Magisterium of Nuns
Land Says Obama Mandate Most Anti-Catholic Government Action in 150 Years
Motive, Means and Opportunity: Obama’s Assault on Catholics
(Exempt Catholics) Joe Biden, Bill Daley warned of contraceptive backlash
(Tim) Thomas makes second political statement (Stands With Catholics)
Southern Baptist leader: If Obama mandate isn’t changed, Christians will go to jail
Over 150 congressional leaders demand repeal of HHS mandate
Boehner vows to overturn Obama’s birth control coverage rule
Boehner: Congress to overturn birth control policy if Obama does not reverse course
O'Brien says Archdiocese of Baltimore won't offer birth control coverage
Archbishop of San Francisco says Obama ruling strikes at religious freedom
How Obama Lost the Catholic Vote
‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants.
Unholy War
Six Things Everyone Should Know about the HHS Mandate
Santorum: Obama Hostile to Christians
Understanding Oppostion to the HHS Mandate (Part 1): Why the Church Won’t Pay for Contracept

The Bishops Chickens Coming Home to Roost.
65 Orthodox Church bishops call on Obama to ‘rescind’ the ‘unjust’ contraception mandate
Doug Kmiec Writes Obama: 'Friendship Will Not Permit Me to Disregard Duty to Faith and Country'
Catholic Outcry Over Obama Administration's Birth Control Decision Could Factor In Presidential Race
Standing with the Bishops [Catholic Caucus]
Updated: *167* Bishops (More Than 90% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
Outrage!… Military Tells Chaplains What They Can and Can’t Say About HHS/ObamaAssault on Religion
Updated: *153* Bishops (Over 80% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
href="http://www.sundayscripturestudy.com/this_week.html">An Affront Catholics Agree On [Liberal and Conservative Catholics Against Obama Mandate]

Army Silenced Chaplains Last Sunday
Catholic Military Archdiocese & Chaplains interfered with last Sunday by Pres. Obama’s Admin
The Anti-Catholic President v. the Catholic Bishops
Sen. Rubio introduces bill to reverse Obama birth control mandate
Churches balk at birth control rule - Catholics won’t comply, Bishop Kevin Rhoades says
Protestants and Jews declare to White House: We stand with Catholics
Checking the Air Outside [Bp. Zubik's follow up to Obama's “To Hell with You”]
Mohler [Southern Baptist] Says Insurance Mandate Not Just 'Catholic' Issue
An Open Letter to President Barack Obama Concerning Recent Tyranny (With Pictures!)
Lincoln bishop: prepare for 'suffering' under HHS mandate
Bishop David Zubik confronts Obama
Obama’s ‘war on the church’

Pope hits out at 'radical secularism'
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
Bruskewitz: Fight Insurance Ruling [Sebelius a "bitter, fallen away Catholic"]
Letter from Archbishop John G. Vlazny on the matter of freedom of conscience and decisions by HHS
Bishop Olmsted's Letter to Catholics [Catholic Caucus]
Liberty for the Amish & Quakers but not Catholics. . .
Contraception mandate prompts Peoria bishop to instate St. Michael Prayer (Catholic Caucus)
Phoenix bishop (Olmstead): defy feds on birth control
A letter from Archbishop Dennis M. Schnurr concerning HHS edict
Speak honestly: abortion is ‘the killing of tiny human beings in the womb’ – Denver bishop
Bishop [Daniel Jenky] Blasts Secularist Intolerance, Calls For ‘Assertive Action’ to Defend Church
(Pittsburgh Bishop Zubik comments:) HHS delays rule on contraceptive coverage
Dolan: Natural law, not religious preference, dictates all life sacred
Religious leaders blast HHS over contraception mandate
Mandated Contraception, Sterilization: Caesar Demands Church Violate Conscience
OBAMA’S CONTEMPT FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (mandates coverage of sterilization & contraception)
Implications of Obama Admin move to force Cath hospitals to provide contraception and sterilizations
Catholic doctors’ group launches petition against contraception mandate
Contraception mandate tramples religious freedom, US bishops say

23 posted on 11/02/2012 9:51:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Holly_P

So, you’re confused about which candidate has the more radical abortion agenda?


24 posted on 11/02/2012 9:52:29 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Rob in Arizona

The movie Hope and Change for free on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/#!watch/409925

Get the word out and send the link to all your lefty friends.


25 posted on 11/02/2012 9:52:54 PM PDT by diamond6 (Hulu has "The Hope and the Change" for free: http://www.hulu.com/#!watch/409925)
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To: Holly_P

Electing a man who imposes his entire view on abortion for the nation is not an option.

What is an option is defunding Planned Parenthood and nominating SC judges with a chance to overturn Roe v. Wade - which would put the question back to the states.

Versus one who does the opposite.


26 posted on 11/02/2012 9:53:52 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Catholic Ping!


27 posted on 11/02/2012 9:54:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: D-fendr; All

George Weigel, well known papal historian and catholica writer, was talking about this on Raymond Arroyo’s “World Over Live” last week.

He said that there is no Catholic Vote, that there is a Practicing religious vote

Religious people who attend regular church functions vs peoople who do not are not together a voting block.

People, by the way, who call themselves Catholic but who do not use access to church regularly cannot be chased down by the church and told not to attend or to hand in their registration.

Politicians who publicly proclaim solidarity to abortion and the other non negotiables are sandalous and probably shouk be turned away and are experiencing that lately.


28 posted on 11/02/2012 10:06:18 PM PDT by stanne
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To: vette6387
I know of no instance where a Catholic politician was excommunicated for openly speaking in opposition to his church’s doctrines.

Research New Orleans Archbishop Joseph Rummel's excommunication of Judge Leander Perez, Jackson G. Ricau and Una Gaillot. Bishop Alejo Zavala excommunicating Crisoforo Nava Barrios. Bishop Heriberto Bodeant in Uruguay. Pope Gregory VII's excommunication of Emperor Henry IV. Pope Gregory IX's and Pope Innocent IV's excommunciation of Emperor Frederick II. Pope Clement VII's excommunication of Henry VIII. Pius V's excommunication of Queen Elizabeth I. The excommunication of all Nazi party members by the German Bishops in 1931.

It is rare but it happens.

29 posted on 11/02/2012 10:11:20 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: arrogantsob
You could air out your post and fertilize the car with it.


30 posted on 11/02/2012 10:16:24 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Salvation
And Biden has been excommunicated in several dioceses of Colorado.

Once again you are incorrect. There's a big difference, that you need to learn - re The Eighth Commandment - between an interdict and an excommunication. Stop spreading that which you know not to be true.

31 posted on 11/02/2012 10:19:25 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Fungi

How many Catholics do you know, personally?


32 posted on 11/02/2012 10:21:57 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

You really want a number? Do have a number in response?


33 posted on 11/02/2012 10:29:59 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Some bishops are now speaking out strongly. They tend to be the younger ones. The old guys are products of the post-council period, and are very liberal, and in any meaningful sense, many are closer to the Episcopal bishops. in their theology. than the bishops of the ‘50s.


34 posted on 11/02/2012 10:35:10 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: stanne

The last time that Catholics voted as a bloc was for John Kennedy inn 1960. They were a powerful l faction of the Democratic Party until the radicals took it over in 1972. Then they pushed out the serious Catholics.


35 posted on 11/02/2012 10:39:52 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: D-fendr; Salvation

We need to be careful to clarify the distinctions, which I daresay very few people understand, between denying Communion per Canon Law (915 or 916) and excommunication, whether Latae or Ferendae Senteniae.

There is also a distinction between being counseled not to present for Communion which may leave the burden on the individual, and a priest being compelled by Canon Law to refuse it, or the Bishop instructing the priests of his diocese that they are thus bound.

Sibelius has NOT been publicly excommunicated, but there is reason to suppose that she and the others often mentioned (Biden, Pelosi, etc) may be essentially excommunicated LATAE (internally, not publicly, not decreed by an ecclesial authority).

The Church is rightfully cautious about imposing its severest penalty and thus removing someone from spiritual privileges and sacraments, thereby further prodding them along the road to Hell. Ferendae is an extreme last resort, every encouragement to repentance is made first.

(Hi Salvation, haven’t seen you in a while! Been offline and happy to be back on FR now.)


36 posted on 11/02/2012 10:45:25 PM PDT by baa39
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To: G Larry
So, you’re confused about which candidate has the more radical abortion agenda?

I don't usually reply to replies that start with the word "so". They always try to put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

It was you who tried to soft pedal Romney's stance on abortion. I agreed with you that Obama's stance was evil.

Furthermore, I know which candidate's stance is the lesser evil but don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining, Romney is a damn'd liberal, he's just the lesser liberal.

37 posted on 11/02/2012 10:46:28 PM PDT by Holly_P
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To: RobbyS

Yes, and perhaps more germane than their age is that this new breed of bishops are from a slowly growing group of those often chosen by Pope Benedict. There certainly are some common (and welcome) trends and traits in both his consecration of new bishops and his elevations to archbishop positions.


38 posted on 11/02/2012 10:54:04 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Tamzee

Since when has Romney said that he’s going to ban all abortions except those for rape?


39 posted on 11/02/2012 10:57:00 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Salvation

Atheists. Both cities have among the highest number of atheists/non believers. They are also solidly democrat, something like 95/5.

This is why big cities support the democrats.


40 posted on 11/02/2012 11:00:16 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: baa39

The Holy Father is an old man in a hurray. He knows that the Church is threatened with collapse in the West because so many priests are like the late Cardinal of Milan. I gather than he must be surprising himself with the energy he has managed to summon since he became pope. He seems the quintessential mild-manner professor. But the strength is there. It now seems that he is this century’s Leo XIV.


41 posted on 11/02/2012 11:05:10 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Holly_P

So, Holly_P (just kidding!).

Good point about the lesser of two liberals. The difficulty is that a true conservative can no longer get elected in this now-socialist, welfare state, polygolt (not melting pot) country.

I don’t suppose Ronald Reagan could get elected today, partly due the the 24/7 institutional and social media (vastly slanted left) which did not exist in 1980, and partly due to slow but inexorable trends: the increasing liberalization that comes with each generation due to the schools, the lack of fathers in the home, thus more self-indulgent whiners in every generation, and the increasing misunderstanding of the critical role of a free market economy to a well-functioning and literate democratic citizenry.


42 posted on 11/02/2012 11:06:17 PM PDT by baa39
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To: RobbyS

Astute observation. With the 2 dicasteries this year, it’s pretty clear he’s stacking the deck for the next conclave. At 85, the Holy Father is incredibly impressive, and no doubt his mind is still razor sharp. God bless him.


43 posted on 11/02/2012 11:10:55 PM PDT by baa39
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To: baa39

“partly due the the 24/7 institutional and social media (vastly slanted left) which did not exist in 1980”

What we had were the (vastly slanted left) newspapers, Time, Life, Newsweek, US News, NBC, ABC, and CBS, and that was about it. The leftards were the gatekeepers of what the American people could know or find out.

If you wanted to read the National Review, you had to subscribe, because it wasn’t on the stands. Most people had never heard of it.

When I discovered how biased the media were, around 1982, and started talking about it, people looked at me like I had one eye in the middle of my forehead. *Nobody* believed it.

Walter Cronkite, the crypto-commie scumbag, was “the most trusted man in America.” When he said “the war is now unwinnable” after our military utterly destroyed the Viet Cong in the reaction to the Tet Offensive, we didn’t have any way to fact-check his BS. We didn’t know, and couldn’t find out.

No, the news situation is manifestly better now. Not only do we have many sources of information, but many, many more people know that the dinosaur media are very biased.


44 posted on 11/03/2012 1:28:23 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Fungi

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass? The first part of the Mass is readings of the Bible. One reading from the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John and two from the other books of the Bible. I’ve been attending Mass for 63 years and it has always been a part of the Mass I’ve attended. Unless you sleep through Mass you will always hear the teachings of the Bible. And no matter what Catholic Church you attend, whether in St. Louis or New York, they will all have the same readings that day.


45 posted on 11/03/2012 1:45:11 AM PDT by Guardian Sebastian
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To: Rob in Arizona

Here in NJ the government has been very successful in closing down Catholic hospitals and schools; for the former they required the emergency rooms to treat everyone regardless of their ability while constantly reducing the reimbursement from the state for those unable to, and with the latter they simply taxed everyone so much for the public education that they couldn’t afford private schools.

It was a brilliant plan, was carried out successfully, and without a whimper from the hierarchy.


46 posted on 11/03/2012 2:36:11 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: arrogantsob

“The only reason the Democrats control the big cities is because of their control of the Catholic vote.”

Our cities haven’t been Catholic in decades; many of the recent Hispanic immigrants aren’t Catholic, and blacks rarely are. Here in NJ our capital (Trenton) closed its last Catholic high school years ago. Dems control the big cities because they buy votes with wealth redistribution from suburbs into the cities.


47 posted on 11/03/2012 2:40:18 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: JaguarXKE

“I’m a Catholic and it has long frustrated me that so many of my fellow Catholics seem to migrate to the Democrats. Never ever understood that.”

Same with me!! I started to realize after some reading and even personal observation that a lot of it had to do with generations of blue collar catholics continuing to vote democrat because of the unions in the big city areas. Their reasons to vote democrat disintegrated over the years but they kept pulling the lever anyway. It ran in their families, so to speak. 30 or 40 years ago this may have made sense, but no longer.


48 posted on 11/03/2012 4:16:03 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Mears
Last Sunday, our favorite priest, now at a neighboring parish, called out Joe Biden by name. We live in NoVA. Father DeCelles is doing God's work amd his sermons are fantastic.
49 posted on 11/03/2012 4:28:17 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Salvation

Meant to ping you to the above : )


50 posted on 11/03/2012 4:30:15 AM PDT by xsmommy
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