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Air Force chaplains adjust to gays serving openly
Standard-Examiner ^ | July 5, 2012 | David Crary (AP)

Posted on 07/05/2012 12:21:44 PM PDT by madprof98

Col. Timothy Wagoner has been an Air Force chaplain for 20 years, serving a denomination — the Southern Baptists — that rejects same-sex relationships.

Yet here he was at the chapel he oversees, watching supportively as an airman and his male partner celebrated a civil union ceremony.

“I wouldn’t miss it,” Wagoner said at the McGuire Air Force Base chapel, days later. “I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs … I’m supporting the community.”

Wagoner didn’t officiate at the ceremony — he couldn’t go quite that far. But his very presence at the gathering was a marker of how things have changed for active-duty clergy in the nine months since the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy was repealed and gays could serve openly.

Prior to repeal, various conservative groups and individuals — including many conservative retired chaplains — warned that repeal would trigger an exodus of chaplains whose faiths consider homosexual activity to be sinful. In fact, there’s been no significant exodus — perhaps two or three departures of active-duty chaplains linked to the repeal. Moreover, chaplains or their civilian coordinators from a range of conservative faiths told The Associated Press they knew of virtually no serious problems thus far involving infringement of chaplains’ religious freedom or rights of conscience.

“To say the dust has settled would be premature,” said Air Force Col. Gary Linsky, a Roman Catholic priest who oversees 50 fellow chaplains in the Air Mobility Command. “But I’ve received no complaints from chaplains raising concerns that their ministries were in any way conflicted or constrained.”

(Excerpt) Read more at standard.net ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: airforce; armedservices; cowards; homosexualagenda
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"I'm supporting the community."

Evidently not the Christian community, chaplain.

1 posted on 07/05/2012 12:21:49 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: madprof98

anecdotal propaganda stories.

the left is not reduced to citing individual anecdotes as proof of normal for all society.

Obama is doing it by citing anecdotes to attack capitalism.

now we have homosexuals (again btw) USING such idiots as exceptions.

It would not be surprising if this chaplan was a closted one and is “in” to protect his colar of priesthood.


2 posted on 07/05/2012 12:29:24 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: madprof98

In the military, it’s either “adjust” or take a hike. The choice is yours.


3 posted on 07/05/2012 12:29:31 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare is only the beginning. It's all downhill from here.)
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To: madprof98

“I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs “
This took place where? His chapel? I would have to say, he did compromise his beliefs.


4 posted on 07/05/2012 12:30:51 PM PDT by DMG2FUN
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To: madprof98
We need Adultery Celebration Ceremonies to recognize the numerous previously hidden but passionate and personally important relationships that have been concealed for so many generations. I imagine this "chaplain" would be there to support the community, even if he didn't officiate.
5 posted on 07/05/2012 12:30:56 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: madprof98

OMG!!! We have 50 MILLION HUMAN SACRIFICES (abortions), and now all this HOMOSEXUAL CRAP!! It really is enough to make a person go mad!! Is this still a country worth saving??? How did the people of Sodom and Gemorrah feel before they went so evil??


6 posted on 07/05/2012 12:31:47 PM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: madprof98
The Colonel doesn't represent this So. Baptist or any others that I know.
9 posted on 07/05/2012 12:31:58 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: madprof98
"...Col. Timothy Wagoner has been an Air Force chaplain for 20 years, serving a denomination — the Southern Baptists — that rejects same-sex relationships. Yet here he was at the chapel he oversees, watching supportively as an airman and his male partner celebrated a civil union ceremony. “I wouldn’t miss it,” Wagoner said at the McGuire Air Force Base chapel, days later. “I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs … I’m supporting the community...”

He is rationalizing his 'supportiveness', and thereby supporting the entire thing.

Sad.

I know, I am not in a position to criticize, since I don't have to make a choice (yet) between my career and openly supporting homosexuality, but...he is a Baptist Chaplain. How can he be 'supportive' without compromising his beliefs?

This whole thing makes me want to vomit.

11 posted on 07/05/2012 12:32:21 PM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: madprof98

The chaplain should change his denomination forthwith. Universalist would be more appropriate.

It is so damned sad watching the military of which I was a part for more than half my life circle the moral drain.


12 posted on 07/05/2012 12:32:45 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: Ann Archy
Is this still a country worth saving???

I don't think it can be saved.. we reached the tipping point long ago.

13 posted on 07/05/2012 12:34:33 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: madprof98
"I’m supporting the community"

"Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?" James 4:4

14 posted on 07/05/2012 12:35:18 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: FlingWingFlyer

“In the military, it’s either “adjust” or take a hike.”

####

Everyone understands that.

The Queer military had better “adjust” to the fact that they are going to get less enlistments from their traditional and prime source of soldiers: Young, strong heterosexual males.

That demographic will increasingly be telling the military to “take a hike”.


15 posted on 07/05/2012 12:36:11 PM PDT by EyeGuy (Armed, judgmental, fiscally responsible heterosexual.)
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To: madprof98
“But I’ve received no complaints from chaplains raising concerns that their ministries were in any way conflicted or constrained.”

Because they are...

get ready for it...

"FOLLOWING ORDERS!!"

That didn't work at Nuremberg; it isn't going to work at the final judgment either...

16 posted on 07/05/2012 12:38:18 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: madprof98

Even a muslim I know believes we are in the Last Days because Obama is taking the U.S.A. into gay marriage.

Yeah, I’m trying to convert him to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and his Savior.

Funny, when I looked this up a moment ago, I had never noticed it’s a double thirteen. Weird.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+13:13&version=KJV

Genesis 13:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.


17 posted on 07/05/2012 12:39:14 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
"In the military, it’s either “adjust” or take a hike. The choice is yours."

If you believe in the scriptures then there's really no choice, is there? It is only in the fire that's one's convictions are truely tested.

18 posted on 07/05/2012 12:39:23 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: EyeGuy

I agree 100%. In the long run, straight people are going to stop enlisting. Why put up with all the homosexual BS. Homo commanders forcing you to march in “gay pride” parades and other moronic liberal crap.


19 posted on 07/05/2012 12:41:07 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare is only the beginning. It's all downhill from here.)
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To: madprof98

“I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs”

Yes you are, Colonel. But you’re probably threatened with the UCMJ by the Obamanation that is causing desolation (metaphor).


20 posted on 07/05/2012 12:42:12 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

It won’t take too long before we have the same warrior culture in our military as the Dutch.


21 posted on 07/05/2012 12:45:21 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: madprof98
Col. Timothy Wagoner has been an Air Force chaplain for 20 years, serving a denomination — the Southern Baptists — that rejects same-sex relationships.

Yet here he was at the chapel he oversees, watching supportively as an airman and his male partner celebrated a civil union ceremony.

“I wouldn’t miss it,” Wagoner said at the McGuire Air Force Base chapel, days later. “I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs … I’m supporting the community.”


Tell that to the Lord at Judgement time.
22 posted on 07/05/2012 12:47:10 PM PDT by crosshairs
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To: madprof98

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.


23 posted on 07/05/2012 12:47:44 PM PDT by History Repeats (Drink plenty of TEA, but avoid the Koolaid.)
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To: Ann Archy

They probably didn’t think they were evil.


24 posted on 07/05/2012 12:49:01 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: longtermmemmory

He is a Souther Baptist so hardly a Priest.


25 posted on 07/05/2012 12:49:16 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Ann Archy
Sorry, but gotta post it again. We're in the Last Days guys. The signs are all around us. Trying to divide Israel for "peace", hatred of Jews, Jerusalem the unsolvable problem, Iran getting ready to attack Israel a la Ezekiel 38, and all this other nonsense....

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:26-37&version=KJV

Luke 17:26-37

King James Version (KJV)

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:42,44&version=KJV

Matthew 24:42,44

King James Version (KJV)

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

26 posted on 07/05/2012 12:53:17 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: stuartcr; Ann Archy

The Khmer Rouge probably didn’t think they were evil ...

The Viet Cong probably didn’t think they were evil ...

The Sendero Luminoso probably didn’t think they were evil ...

The Red Brigades probably didn’t think they were evil ...

The Moro Islamic Liberation Front probably doesn’t think it’s evil ...

To a moral relativist, that’s probably all that matters.


27 posted on 07/05/2012 12:54:01 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: napscoordinator

“He is a Souther Baptist so hardly a Priest.”

From the article, a second individual:

“Air Force Col. Gary Linsky, a Roman Catholic priest who oversees 50 fellow chaplains in the Air Mobility Command. “But I’ve received no complaints from chaplains raising concerns that their ministries were in any way conflicted or constrained.””


28 posted on 07/05/2012 12:56:31 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Ann Archy
How did the people of Sodom and Gomorrah feel before they went so evil??

Probably smugly self-justified, just as we are becoming today. They didn't start at the extreme end of the spectrum. First they refused to worship and honor God. Then they gave themselves over to wickedness. The He "gave them over".

I firmly believe the length of time from that moment to the bitter end was, and is, a testament to God's mercy, longsuffering, love and grace. He doesn't just blow a rebellious people off the map lightly (their sin has to "come up before" Him).

But at some point of His choosing He does so "with none to rescue".

29 posted on 07/05/2012 12:56:59 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: ArrogantBustard

To the individuals also...but do you really think you can bundle this whole issue along with those groups you mentioned? That’s an incredible stretch to compare those groups with the whole gay issue.


30 posted on 07/05/2012 12:58:28 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: rlmorel

Col Wagoner is a disgrace and I encourage other SBC members to write him and tell in so in the direct tough love manner baptists have ever been known for dealing with those who are doctrinally challenged. a couple hundred letters would probably give this weak man some pause. He is< I note a full colonel, so he could certainly retire today with lose of benefits or pension. He is such a jellyfish I wonder how long he has been an 0-6. I think one has to serve in grade three years to be able to retire in the highest grade one served at. This is perhaps small of me but I wonder if he doesn’t have some months to go before he can retire as an 0-6 rather than an 0-5. The difference in retired pay is Col. Wagoner’s 30 pieces of silver. While it would cost a bit sending this gentleman 30 silver dimes might make a dramatic point to him.


31 posted on 07/05/2012 12:59:31 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: stuartcr
That’s an incredible stretch to compare those groups with the whole gay issue.

Not at all ... Those committed to evil, whether it's mass murder of adults (Khmer Rouge), or mass murder of infants (Planned Parenthood), or sexual perversion (subject of this thread), or prostitution (mafia), or political corruption (democrat Party) ...

They all convince themselves that they're not doing evil, and proclaim their supposed "good intentions" to the world at large.

A moral relativist has no standing to say them nay.

32 posted on 07/05/2012 1:06:06 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: F15Eagle

Oh there are two of them. One is a Southern Baptist at the beginning of the story who witnessed the “marriage” and then the Priest who is in charge of 50 Chaplains. Thanks!!!


33 posted on 07/05/2012 1:08:23 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

;)


34 posted on 07/05/2012 1:12:07 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Pollster1

LOL!


35 posted on 07/05/2012 1:13:47 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: madprof98

Would it be too much to ask all Christian pastors and priests to resign from the military? Is it correct to say they must choose serving God & Christ or a rapidly deteriorating state?


36 posted on 07/05/2012 1:20:46 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Please keep in mind that I was responding to the comment about how those people must have felt. There is a lot of what we call evil in the world, and if you want to lump all of them together, good on you.


37 posted on 07/05/2012 1:23:47 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: FlingWingFlyer

For Christians, there is no choice. One must obey God, regardless of the consequences. As a pastor, this man will face worse condemnation for what he is doing.


38 posted on 07/05/2012 1:27:35 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: madprof98
Many Christians have bought into the 'gay is O.K.' mindset and it has even extended to the clergy in some denominations. Homosexual behavior is condemned by God in scripture and no justifications for effectively condoning it will save this Chaplin from judgement for his decision to abandon the Word of God for the approval of men.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what the left hoped would happen when Obama lifted the pseudo 'ban' on those practicing homosexual behavior serving 'openly' in the military. 'Gay' military personnel would 'come out' and service members would have to 'accept' it or face disciplinary consequences. Effectively forcing our military personnel to endorse homosexual behavior. This would have to include the Chaplaincy. This Colonel is just one example of how that is going to unfold. With 'Christian' Chaplains attending the faux 'marriage' ceremony of two homosexual service members - and pretending that he heartily approves. How sad for this 'man of God'.

Unfortunately for him, while he can make a fool of himself he cannot fool God and will one day answer - as we all will - to God for his actions that disgraced the name he took. That of "Christian'.

39 posted on 07/05/2012 1:28:26 PM PDT by Jim Scott
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To: stuartcr
I was responding to the comment about how those people must have felt.

Yep ... I merely amplified the point.

There is a lot of what we call evil in the world,

A fact not likely to change. Ever. And we call it evil because that's what it is.

if you want to lump all of them together

It's a matter of recognising that various forms of evil differ in degree, not in kind.

40 posted on 07/05/2012 1:32:01 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Pining_4_TX

You are correct. This is clearly a case of asking someone to render unto Caesar that which is God’s.


41 posted on 07/05/2012 1:38:21 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: madprof98

“I wouldn’t miss it,” Wagoner said at the McGuire Air Force Base chapel, days later. “I don’t feel I’m compromising my beliefs … I’m supporting the community.”

Sir, if you do not understand that you did compromise your religion and the moral fabric with which the community of America was founded and stood all these years then you should resign your commission and resign as a religious leader.


42 posted on 07/05/2012 1:39:32 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: madprof98

Abhorrence and Detestation!

Head Quarters, V. Forge, Saturday, March 14, 1778.

At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778) Lieutt. Enslin28 of Colo. Malcom’s Regiment tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false Accounts, found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and do sentence him to be dismiss’d the service with Infamy.

His Excellency the Commander in Chief (George Washington)approves the sentence and with Abhorrence and Detestation of such Infamous Crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of Camp tomorrow morning by all the Drummers and Fifers in the Army never to return; The Drummers and Fifers to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28gw110081%29%29))

Note make sure the )) is on the end of the link.


43 posted on 07/05/2012 1:40:04 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: Jim Scott

Remember this:

06-11-99

Thirteen conservative religious groups are calling on Christians to boycott joining or re-enlisting in the U.S. Army until it bans witchcraft on its posts.

“Until the Army withdraws all official support and approval from witchcraft, no Christian should enlist or reenlist in the Army, and Christian parents should not allow their children to join the Army,” said Paul M. Weyrich, president of the Free Congress Association.


44 posted on 07/05/2012 1:40:23 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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To: madprof98
Prior to repeal, various conservative groups and individuals — including many conservative retired chaplains — warned that repeal would trigger an exodus of chaplains whose faiths consider homosexual activity to be sinful. In fact, there’s been no significant exodus — perhaps two or three departures of active-duty chaplains linked to the repeal.

Of course there's no big exodus, the repeal only just come out. The military is not a 'job' you can just quit. This isn't going to be seen for a couple years as soldiers' contracts finish, and don't re-enlist/re-contract. And of course, with the military trying to down-size right now, it'll be less noticeable, but I'm sure it'll be noticed in a while. Especially when we get into another conflict and military size increases.
45 posted on 07/05/2012 1:41:58 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: madprof98

(Air Force)Academy chapel to add outdoor circle to worship areas (for pagans)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2441709/posts


46 posted on 07/05/2012 1:43:11 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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To: ArrogantBustard

ok


47 posted on 07/05/2012 1:43:11 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Another good link.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1126

The Founders on Homosexuality by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Most people nowadays would be shocked to learn that Thomas Jefferson advocated “dismemberment” as the penalty for homosexuality in his home state of Virginia, and even authored a bill to that effect (1781, Query 14; cf. 1903, 1:226-227).


48 posted on 07/05/2012 1:44:35 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: ScottinVA
The USA has virtually every indicator of a nation near imminent collapse.
Of course, that is true of most nations in the modern world.
49 posted on 07/05/2012 1:47:27 PM PDT by attiladhun2 (The Free World has a new leader--his name is Benjamin Netanyahu)
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To: Coldwater Creek

Agreed on your post #9. The Southern Baptists I know would have BIG issues with being present - as would I (also Southern Baptist).


50 posted on 07/05/2012 1:52:11 PM PDT by JLLH
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