Posted on 04/11/2012 8:26:05 AM PDT by Red Badger
Quick ~ somebody work this out ~ Coal + Air =, then we take the CO2 and convert that to Methane ~ then we burn that again. Remember to account for the additional O from the atmosphere.
There will be other byproducts that can be handled as solids.
The cost of the catalysts is probably far less than the costs of the lawyers!
Let’s see CO2 has one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms. Methane is CH4, that is one carbon atom and 4 hydrogen atoms. I never see in the article where the hydrogen atoms are going to come from. Besides as cheap as methane is today I don’t see the point.
I think you guys are missing something. It sounds to me like the whole article is talking about a breakthrough in combining CO2 and hydrogen, into methane. Thus its not a perpetual motion machine. The hydrogen will be supplied outside of this process. That is the only thing that make sense to me.
Very interesting!
I wonder whether this science would work with other non-oxidizing metals like platinum or paladium and copper, as our catalytic converters already use these metals to reduce noxious gasses.
Perhaps the resulting methene could be recycled into the combustion process thru introducing it back into a turbocharger
Now if we can figure how to reverse the process we can turn coal into copper and gold.
“The hydrogen will be supplied outside of this process”
Of course hydrogen can be supplied at a cheap price. /s
Actually, this is really promising. It’s true that you need to add energy to convert the CO2 to hydrocarbons, but solar cells are certainly capable of providing the current necessary to facilitate the conversion. If this technology proves feasible, it would be a great step toward energy independence.
BTW, the oxygen to burn the hydrocarbons is simply recycled back to the atmosphere when the CO2 is converted to CH4.
This process also suggests a path to create natural gas inorganically in the earth’s crust: carbonate rocks, heat, and a little hydrogen could do the trick. The difficult part is creating the hydrogen efficiently.
Talk to Al Gore. He has been very successful turning coal into gold. I don't think he bothers with the coppers.
So we steam reform methane to make the hydrogen, to combine with CO2 with yet more energy consumption, to make methane?
This is feeding off the global warming scam of carbon capture, it is a net loss energy system.
The chemical reaction for combustion of methane is:
CH4 + 2 O2 → CO2 + 2 H2O (ΔH = −891 kJ/mol (at standard conditions))
Any reaction converting CO2 back into methane will consume 891 kJ/mol if 100% efficient. And no process is 100% efficient. So (and thermodynamics guarantees this result, hence no 'perpetual motion' machines) converting the same chemical reaction back and forth must ALWAYS result in a net energy LOSS. I'm a physicist, not a chemist, but this is pretty basic stuff.
The reaction took place in water. So I assume the water was the source of the hydrogen.
Maybe this could make coal-to-liquid more efficient? My understanding of the process is that it takes energy (in the form of heat) and CO2. Maybe this method could do the job using less energy?
Ultimately I think the goal of this research was to make it cheaper to reduce CO2 emissions, however it may be useful in other applications.
Thermodynamics should be required education for every citizen. Especially the morons in congress.
The process involves immesing the electrode in water through which CO2 is passed, so the current will break down the water molecules to obtain the hydrogen. The reaction produces 3 molecules of oxygen for each molecule of methane: 2H2O + CO2 = CH4 + 3O2
Then you need to add the energy required to separate the molecular bonds of water.
As an old engineer myself (ChemE), I must agree.
But this is a new age! The laws of thermodynamics, like the Constitution, are full of negative restrictions. We can just hopey-changey them to something else. ;D
The NappyOne
My bad- the reaction is produces 2 oxygen molecules for each methane molecule:
4xH2O + 2xCO2 = 2xCH4 + 4xO2
There is no “free” energy, however if the technology is more efficient than existing processes to create synthetic hydrocarbons it could be useful.
“hydrocarbon fuels with relatively little energy”
Relative to what is the $64 question.
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