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A Bold Way to Save Education in America
Godfather Politics ^ | November 12, 2011 | Art Robinson

Posted on 12/02/2011 5:15:24 AM PST by 1010RD

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To: netmilsmom

What I was referring to was of a much more spiritual nature. It wasn’t purely about the school system per se....but about our entire cultural milieu.


21 posted on 12/02/2011 10:59:55 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: JenB

Art is familiar with the history of American forced education. Trust me on that. You and I are knowledgeable on such things and hence we home school. The average American doesn’t know and doesn’t get it.

My goal is seeing Art elected. He’s solid, very solid. He’s also big on home schooling: http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/


22 posted on 12/02/2011 12:05:57 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Yep, teachers will grasp any straw if it isn’t their money. The utter myth that tech = improvement is disproved by PBS and Sesame Street.


23 posted on 12/02/2011 12:07:58 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Spartan79

One step at a time. Liberalism is a disease that starts at the Federal level. Think about the average American. They’re conservative at a core level, but liberals have been able to contravene them through national funding and control.


24 posted on 12/02/2011 12:12:30 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Madam Theophilus

He gets it completely. I presume you’re familiar with this book?: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/


25 posted on 12/02/2011 12:15:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Yes, I have read quite a few books on the history of American education, including Gatto’s.


26 posted on 12/02/2011 1:08:03 PM PST by Madam Theophilus
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To: Cboldt
It's not an accident that control has shifted away from localities, and to a central agency.

Epecially when you consider there is zero in the U.S. Constitution that education is a federal function.

27 posted on 12/02/2011 1:50:00 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - it is Showtime!!)
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To: Not a 60s Hippy
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

And these two along thoe lines:

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

28 posted on 12/02/2011 1:55:58 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - it is Showtime!!)
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To: A_perfect_lady

“Much of the money never reaches the students or the teachers.”

Here in NJ much of the money reaches the teachers; they are very well-paid, and their retirement benefits liabilities are drowning many municipalities. What pensioners did to GM in Detroit public employees (most teachers) are doing to NJ; the tax burden on any individual, business, or property makes it a terrible place to be.


29 posted on 12/02/2011 3:44:57 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: 1010RD

Great timing, could ya’ll also take a look over here at the issue of Standards Based Grading creeping into middle schools and high schools?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2814935/posts


30 posted on 12/02/2011 3:48:29 PM PST by BigDaddyTX (Don't Mex with Texas)
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To: 1010RD

I think the assertion that homeschooling wasn’t necessary in the 1950s due to the public school system is off base; while the public schools were better then than today, the fact is that there were a lot more PRIVATE education opportunities than today.

When my father was in elementary school it was required for Catholic parents to send their children to Catholic schools; imagine the size of a Catholic education system that could mandate that. Today it is a shell of its former self, and the state of education today reflects that.


31 posted on 12/02/2011 4:06:04 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: 1010RD

What is worse is having millions of teachers each trying to ‘innovate’ at the kids’ expense. Attempts to innovate are by definition going to include many failures. The material to be learned in K-12 doesn’t change every year and it doesn’t change from one locale to another. There is no need to constantly reinvent the wheel. Today’s technology lends itself to sharing the best teachers amongst every classroom on that subject. The “Teacher” should be an interactive video game that includes lectures, textbook, video material all presented as needed and in response to the student’s input to frequent pop-up quizzes. Each student could learn at their own pace and explore in more depth than any live body could support with individual attention. The adults physically present in the classroom should be relegated to Aid or Tutor, and not trying to create their own curriculum while setting a pace that is limited by the slowest student in the class.

Also, it should be impossible to “teach to the test” and impossible to cheat on a test. Each student’s test should be created separately so the questions are in a random order and although the entire class has the same 50 questions, those 50 questions were randomly selected at the last minute from a database of thousands of possible questions on that topic. (If somebody can memorize the answers to thousands of questions on that week’s topic, then their effort to cheat will result in them learning something despite themselves.) This way the “teacher” has no idea exactly what questions will be on the test, and the students can’t crib off each other because their neighbor’s test problems are in a different order. This will force the teachers to teach the actual subject matter rather than “teach to the test” and students to learn the subject matter rather than counting on cribbing off somebody else.


32 posted on 12/02/2011 4:20:56 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: 1010RD

He doesn’t say so, and it would probably be election suicide for him to say so, but I think public colleges and universities need to be audited thoroughly to determine why costs keep going up. I expect that professors are spending less time per class/student and so more teaching staff is used than necessary. Likewise, the administrative staffs are hugely bloated.

They suffer the same problem that any government bureaucracy does — larger staffs justify higher pay for supervisors, so there is a disincentive to improve productivity.

Basically, they spend more money because they CAN, because students are so desperate and student loans are so easy to get, that universities raise their fees and tuition and the students keep paying. Students complain, but keep coming and paying. The government should stop guaranteeing student loans. Public universities should not be using price to try to decrease demand, they should be using merit to fill their spaces and then either expand the school or reject the extras. Charging people up the wazoo and then just blowing the cash on lighter workloads for professors and bloating admin is bad policy. Especially when every extra $1 the student pays is matched by $3 the taxpayer must pay.

The unavailability of student loans and leaner operating costs at public universities will lead to lower fees at both public and private schools as they must compete with the public schools.


33 posted on 12/02/2011 4:39:40 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kellis91789

I would bet that professor and administrator salaries go up every year, even though the economy has been terrible.


34 posted on 12/02/2011 4:43:36 PM PST by ConjunctionJunction
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks 1010RD.
Tax funding for Oregon schools is now, on average, about $10,000 per student year. Suppose that one of our thousands of great teachers were to be given 30 students, a check for $300,000, and asked to teach those students for nine months. Do you think the teacher would have sufficient resources? (Some schools receive less than the average of $10,000, but even $200,000 would suffice for this example.) The teacher could rent the best room in town, hire an assistant, raise her own salary, buy everything the students need, fully fund all extracurricular activities, and have money left over. The teacher could, of course, do this more efficiently in a school with other teachers. This single teacher example illustrates, however, that education resources are sufficient -- if the resources go directly to the classroom.

35 posted on 12/02/2011 4:46:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: cranked
Besides the FACT that the US K-12 system has become an expensive/costly assembly line, I am sure that the implimentation of ‘teaching to test’

Get rid of the federal control/influence (No Child Left Behind) and lower the amount of state control and you'll move away from teaching to the test.

Public education used to work just fine - it helped us put men on the moon and win world wars.

Of course, back then, the feds weren't as involved, kids weren't in this continual cycle of testing, and schools didn't feel pressured keep on advancing kids that should have been flunked.
36 posted on 12/02/2011 4:52:41 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: Not a 60s Hippy
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

When Bush and Teddy Kennedy were pushing No Child Left Behind, I was so incredibly disappointed at the number of Republicans who thought it was good to increase federal control/influence. That should have been a wakeup call for where the GOP was going.

I went to school BEFORE TEACHER UNIONS.

The NEA was founded in 1857. If you went to school before then, you officially qualify as the oldest FReeper! Even in the 1950s, the NEA had almost three quarters of a million members.
37 posted on 12/02/2011 4:57:44 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: ConjunctionJunction

Yes, and their hours actually teaching go down.


38 posted on 12/02/2011 5:33:13 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: 1010RD

conservative teacher here, FL. . .its tough. I could easily spend my entire day, every day, all year trying to UN-do the crap some of these liberal teachers fill your kids head with. You have no idea.
Furthermore, what we are NOT teaching anymore is far more detrimental to our society. History classes are watered down to PC love-fests. Like our history was made by holding hands and singing kum-bay-yah??? ridiculous.
Money$$ I spend on average, 2,000-2,800 on necessary supplies for my classroom and students every year. If you think your kids benefit in any way from your tax payer dollars you are highly mistaken. High-paid babysitting my friends. Not at all, the schools we grew up in before unions ruled the world. I say, cut the head off and let it bleed.


39 posted on 12/02/2011 5:42:56 PM PST by Partysnobz
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To: cranked

I am a graduate of the South Carolina public school system, class of 1960. I live about fifty five miles from the school I attended. We have a university here and I have spoken to recent graduates of that university who majored in history. I was amazed to learn that they don’t know the history that I was required to learn in the first seven years. I am not exaggerating at all. If a university graduate cannot pass the test he would have had to pass to ENTER HIGH SCHOOL in my era and I am referring to a test on his MAJOR subject then he does not even have an eighth grade education in reality. What are they doing in class?


40 posted on 12/02/2011 6:13:15 PM PST by RipSawyer (This does not end well!)
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