Posted on 10/27/2011 11:08:39 AM PDT by casinva
None of this is ever going to happen. RINO’s will still be in charge and nothing will change.
| Current | FairTax | Cain 999 | Perry FlatTax | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Net Rate (% gross income) |
14.0% | 7.5% | 7.9% | 15.3% |
| Marginal Rate (includes federal taxes on payroll, income, and sales) |
30.7% | 23.0% | 17.3% | 25.7% |
| Increased Disposable Income | reference | 22.3% | 10.9% | 3.1% |
| Reduced Federal Taxes * Perry's alternative was higher than current taxes. |
reference | 46.6% | 44.0% | -9.3%* |
| Employee Payroll Tax Rate | 5.7% | none | none | 5.7% |
| Employer Payroll Tax Rate | 7.7% | none | 9.0% | 7.7% |
| Personal Income Tax Rate | 15-35% | none | 9.0% | 20.0% |
| Retail Sales Tax Rate (exclusive / inclusive) |
none | 29.9% 23.0% |
9.0% 8.3% |
none |
| Business Income Tax Rate | 15-35% | none | 9.0% | 20% |
| My estimated retail price reduction | reference | 10% | 8% | 5% |
| Notes |
|
|
||
| Sources | FairTax.org | HermanCain.com | RickPerry.org | |
But it is part of the proposal. One can say this won’t happen or that won’t happen but if we are analyzing the effect of a plan then let us consider it in it’s entirety not just bits and pieces
Agreeable point that too many are making too big of a deal about the possibility of the federal government raising the 9% national sales tax portion of the 999 / 909 plan in the future. It could happen, but it should not be factored in any comparisons now, and that future possibility was not any deciding factor in the lower-burden-flat-tax result here.
The factors the Tax Policy Center in D.C. primarily considered were:
The 9% + 9% portions of the 999 plan which individuals and families would be paying, (including the personal national sales taxes and the personal income taxes excluding corporate taxes) and applying the 999 “no deductions” aspect, no tax rate deductions permitted with the possible exception of some deductions granted for money given to welfare-charities under the 999 plan,
vs.
A flat tax of 20% with a home mortgage interest deduction, deductions for state and local taxes paid by the individual or family, charitable contributions, and a $12,500 deduction for every person in the family, children and adults alike - none of those deductions, save the one similar charity deduction, available in the 999 plan.
One note added that under the flat tax proposal, a family or individual could choose the older tax code system if they could save even more than under the flat tax code.
It would be the generous deductions permitted on the flat tax study which everyone would benefit from that made such big difference in the end for most people, not the additional slight concern that the federal government would possibly raise the 9% national sales tax in the 999 plan to even more down the road.
Good point of consideration.
Fiscally conservative principles alone provide an environment where everyone has a better opportunity to work hard and get ahead, not just some people, and not just some neighborhoods or areas.
When we start adding components that equalize society to help some and not others, it ceases to be as conservative, even if other conservative measures are used in the process.
While that aspect of social justice was not the focus on this study, this study pertaining more to the end game result of dollars alone compared in these two plans, that is another thing conservative voters and politicians would probably be considering when working towards implementation of either of these plans.
Great point, and I'm sure other studies comparing the two will provide good insight to that aspect of the two plans.
Great fiscally conservative policy is a boom for the entire economy and all individuals who live in that economy.
I'm like you in that I have a 25 year old, a 23 year old, and an 19 year old. My 25 year old is already a successful small business owner, doing well even in a rural Appalachian area and during this dismal time of our nation's economy, and my 19 year old is still in college, but I see my 23 year old who is bright and hard working and who is also struggling to find a job she could grow in as we know she could. As parents, we all want to see a vibrant economy and opportunities not just for us, but also for our children to grasp, grow into, prosper, and enjoy.
Great post! Thanks for the exciting vision and for the encouragement you provide to our country and to everyone here reading your post!
This is how they hit me:
Under Cain’s plan: my taxes go up
Under Perry’s plan: my taxes go down. way down.
Paul Ryan on the Perry Plan: ‘I Can Tell You This: It Would Grow The Economy’
Under Cain’s plan: my taxes go up
Under Perry’s plan: my taxes go down. way down.
One of those hits sure looks better for you than the other one! LOL
Mine was the opposite. Remember that under the Perry plan you get to pick from:
People with large families or large incomes but few deductions will do well with the Perry plan.
Wrong. Your taxes would go down further under Cain’s plan; see esarlls3’s analysis in post #23.
It’s OK to burn off steam sometimes. It sounds like you like the 999 plan, you see the good parts of it, and I imagine it is getting frustrating hearing the same thing over and over again all over the net.
Your comment concentrated on the lowest income earners.
You might also want to see this really good article from Human Events, out a couple days ago, that showed how the flat tax would probably help middle class families the most and that middle class income earners would probably be the highest “takers” of the flat tax.
See here for more info on that:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47098
You: “Well, there’s a very easy way to reduce your tax bill: STOP BUYING A LOT OF CRAP THAT YOU DON’T NEED.”
That will be great on the economy, right?
I spend approx. $900.00/mo on groceries and household necessities. My state tax rate is 8.25% but groceries are not taxed.
The grocery part is approx $ 740.00.
So, right now, I pay $13.00 in taxes on my grocery bill per month.
Under Cains plan, I pay $94.00/mo in taxes on my groceries and household necessities.
That is $81.00/mo in national sales tax just on groceries and household necessities.
That is $ 972.00/year additional taxes on groceries and household necessities per year.
My meds = $ 50.00/mo. That is another $4.50/mo or $ $54./yr.
Now we are at $ 1,026.00/yr in national sales tax.
I pay, after deductions which I explain below, 5% in income tax.
On a gross salary of $ 85,150./yr
Deductions are:
$ 7.750.00 yr........state/local taxes
$ 15,116.00 yr.......mortgage interest deduction
$ 750.00 yr.........charitable contributions
Less $ 10,950.00 dependent deduction for 3 dependents.
Taxes owed = approx $ 6,300.00
An additional deduction from taxes owed:
$ 1,200.00 college tuition for one dependent.
Net Taxes owed = $ 5,100.00 (existing plan)
Under Cain’s plan:
$ 85,150.00 X 9% = $ 7,663.50 (no deductions)
On groceries and household necessities alone = $ 1,026.00
Total tax burden just on income & necessities
Net Taxes owed/paid $ 8,689.50 (under Cain’s plan)
I don’t live in an empowerment zone or opportunity zone.
That is $ 4,383.50 more than I pay now.
Under Perry’s Plan:
Going the 20% flat tax route:
$ 85,150.00 gross wages less:
$ 15,100.00 mortgage interest/yr
$ 7,750.00 local/state taxes
$ 750.00 charitable contributions
$ 85,150.00 minus $ 23,600.00 = $ 61,550.00 net
$ 61,550.00 net less
$ 37,500.00 ($12,500. per exemption: couple + 1 college ...........................student child living at home)
$ 24,050.00 X 20% = $ 4,810.00
So:
Taxes owed/paid
$ 5,100.00............existing income tax plan
$ 8,689.50...........under Cain’s plan
$ 4,810.00............under Perry’s Flat Tax plan
I am looking at the “short flat tax form” from his website and it looks like this:
Your 2014 Income..................................$__________
Subtract Exemptions __ x $ 12,500.00 ea.......{$__________}
Subtract Mortgage Interest.......................{$__________}
Subtract Charitable Contributions.............{$__________}
Subtract State/Local Taxes....................{$__________}
Subtract Capital Gains & Dividends............{$__________}
Your Taxable Income..........................= $___________
Taxes Owed..............Taxable Income X 20% = $___________
It is not $12,500.00 per person OR
It is both the way I see it.
Not either standard deduction OR Itemized Deduction:
It is BOTH
See sample Flat Tax Form Here:
http://www.rickperry.org/content/uploads/2011/10/sample-tax-return.pdf
See post 36 and 37
see posts 36 and 37
I’m tired of hearing the Cain opposition stating that they are worried that the 9% can always be raised. Any tax plan can be raised both current and future. Just place measures that would insure that the rates would not go up.That's true and the fact that more people have to pay (under his original proposal) would make it harder to raise the tax than it is to raise current taxes today.
But the bigger problem with 999 is that it is a sure campaign-loser (the "Cain will tax the poor, not the rich" ads will roll like an avalanche not just from the DNC but from the entire MSM) and Cain recognizes that and has already started changing it, with his zones and other exclusions.
Is it 990? Is it 900? Is it 9xx? Whatever it is, it's not 999 anymore, even according to Cain.
I like Cain, I really do, but I'll repeat what I've posted many times in the past couple of months:
Cain must unchain himself from 999.
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