Posted on 03/26/2011 12:32:27 AM PDT by Rashputin
And if that comes to pass, the reasons for not committing to that course of action will come down to the fact that Israeli subs can launch nukes into places like Washington, London, Paris, etc, etc, etc. (well, not Moscow or Beijing, though)
That said, I can easily see the West then imposing a trade embargo. Which would drive Israel to trade heavily with the up-and-coming countries like China, India, Brazil, Russia, Southeast Asia, and the like.
The expected result of WTF foreign policy. Thanks, nobama, you crass loser.
I think this is something that should not be made light of. This is a grave situation for both the West and Israel. I don’t want this just place at the feet of (.)bama, I want he removed from office for being inept, perhaps a traitor. He can claim it was an intelligence SNAFU or being goaded by the press and others, but he began to sow the seeds of these problems with his mid east tour in 09. The guy has an evil midas touch.
Interesting he has been quiet these past few days since returning home. He probably got an ear full from those in S.A., his once overblown ability to inspire is shown for what it was...blabber. The sad thing is we have him for another almost 2 years and most politicians are afraid to take him on due to his appearing to be black.
Man, if people can’t learn from 45+ years of experience, there isn’t any need to teach.
Only our dictator is complicit in it; he seems to think he’s invincible, untouchable royalty and all that . . when they come for him, he’ll be the first to be flabbergasted . .
THESE ARE ALL MUSLIM STATES WITH MUSLIM LAWS AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE.
IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, LIBYA, PAKISTAN...ETC, ETC...
Libya is 97% Muslim...
Something is happening in the Arab World and we are best advised to seek understanding beyond the headlines. (I don’t know how religious you - at a prayer meeting held in the Jerusalem in the 1980’s it was revealed that God would break the power of Communism and Militant Islam).
It is not 1979. The Islamic revolution has already run out of steam as the Iranian protests of 2009 demonstrated. The current regime in Iran is on its way out - within this decade.
Most Arabs don’t want another Iran. They know it does not work.
It is clear, (from the way most freepers talk)that they have no experience living with Muslims. I live amongst muslims and I can tell you many are not stupid. They are now understanding that:
a.)Sharia is not the way to go. A couple of states in my country tried implementing it, and it was a massive failure.
b.)They need to take a second look at Islam. Many are converting to Christianity and the smarter ones are asking questions like “why do Christian women have a 70% literacy rate whilst Muslim women have a 20% literacy rate?”.
There is a massive convulsion in the Islamic World, and while some want to go back to the 13th Century, many want to move ahead with the 21st Century. The vibe I get from many posters here is that they want the 13th Century to win.
My question to Americans is this: Do you want 13th Century fanatics controlling your Oil supplies? If you don’t want that to happen stop twiddling your thumbs - the least you can do is pray.
Talking about Libya, Gaddafi will go and what happens in Egypt and Tunisia will be the key to what happens there. (Libya lies between Egypt and Tunisia). It will not be an Al Qaeda state.
9YearLurker,
I don’t think you understood what happened in Egypt. A man had ruled Egypt for 31 years and even the cats, dogs and mice in Egypt wanted him to go.
I guess you have never lived under a dictator, I have. It is a nasty experience (it does not matter whether the dictator is supported by either the US or the Soviet Union).
What exactly did you want the US Government to do? Or what exactly could the US Government had done?
The Muslim Brotherhood has not taken over Egypt - and short of invading Egypt there is absolutely nothing the US Government can do to prevent the Brotherhood from taking over, if that is what the Egyptian people want.
The US Army invaded and occupied Iraq only to replace a very nasty secular dictatorship with Iran lite. In Afghanistan.....
The best you can do is pray.
blueplum,
One of the advantages of coming from the so-called “Third World” is seeing the World differently.
I have a friend who works in Iran and I did my PG work with a couple of Iranians.
Iranians are amongst the most highly educated in the Middle East. (And this will shock you) The Mullahs were very successful at educating women. There are more women in universities in Iran than men and the fertility rate in Iran has decreased from 6.5 in the 70’s and 80’s to less than 2 in 2010. (The Mullahs introduced contraceptives,condoms etc)
That is not the profile of a raging demographic time bomb.
There were massive protests against the Iranian regime in 1999 and 2009 (and they still simmer).
Going back to the 5th century BC is not a bad idea, because it would take them back to the era of Cyrus the Great.
Thank you for the informative posts. Can you reveal the name of the African country?
Welcome to Free Republic. I hope you continue to educate us.
lentulusgracchus,
The vanguard of the revolution in Iran will mainly be those born after 1979. (60% of Iranian population is under 30). So they are not likely to have any memories of the SAVAK and the Shah.
Iran is a very interesting case because their own version of “the Brotherhood” has been in power for 31 years. So regime change there will most definitely lead to a more secular regime.
No, I’ve not lived under a dictator, but I’ve watched decades od both African and Latin American countries veering from bad government to worse with just your attitude of ‘anything is better than what we’ve got’. Already the NYTimes has had to report that the MB is working in concert with the army. There’s little difference between Marxist, theocratic and simple strongman dictatorships—except that the theocratic ones that Middle Easterners go for are part of a major global threat.
The US should not have worked with and blessed the MB, as the Obama administration has, and it should clearly have offered support only for reforms that the people would not have gone for—and so the US should not have been involved in pressuring Mubarak out. Instead we should have backed the real voices of reform in Iran.
“We are all worried,” said Amr Koura, 55, a television producer, reflecting the opinions of the secular minority. “The young people have no control of the revolution anymore. It was evident in the last few weeks when you saw a lot of bearded people taking charge. The youth are gone.”
I noticed that early on. Before the mosques let out...that 1st week there were women (many with heads not covered) and children in the streets with signs. As time went on the live feeds and pictures were not as encouraging. The mobs/gangs that are best organized in the community and funded from afar are the beneficiaries of chaos. Much like Madison, Wisconsin (and america’s robed mullahs) there weren’t any collectivists walking around holding up a pocket copy of the consitution.
Thanks for posting. Very interesting. Ongoing, unfolding history.
Really though, it has nothing to do with learning. It has more to do with shaping a narrative that fits, er exonerates, their future candidates.
Like Egypt, Iraq (97% Muslim) has pretty much killed or scared off all the Christians and Jews....just like they have preached since their beginning.
The US Government is not God Almighty and the US Government is not omnipotent.
The real power in Egypt is the army and if the army wants to work with the MB, the most severe sanction the US Government can apply is to withdraw the 1.6 billion dollar aid granted to the Egyptian army. (But that would have several serious consequences like putting Israel in danger and drawing the army deeper into the hands of the MB).
Egypt is an independent country - I don’t think you have fully grasped that fact. You have three levers to apply - the economic lever, the diplomatic lever and the military lever.
The best bet is the diplomatic lever, and the best diplomacy is conducted in secret. I advise you to pray for your President.
(P.S: What do YOU think the US Government should do?)
Informative posts or propaganda?
There isn’t a day that goes by where you can’t read of Christian persecution and murders and the horrific treatment of Christians by the “religion of peace” by the hands of radical Moslems those who are devout followers based in Africa, and the Middle East.
My guess is the poster is from Tanzania or Zanzibar, judging from the first comment here at FR where the poster was promoting his “Star TV” and glowing review of Al Jazeera (Jihad TV), that has been a mouthpiece for all kinds of terrorist groups ranging from al-Qaeda to Hamas to Hezbollah, inciting violence against U.S. allies in the region for years.
Al Jazeera TV’s own Moslem cleric Yusuf Qaradawi, who regularly diatribes anti-American and anti-Semitic statements had issued a fatwa calling for Gaddafi’s murder. And the son of Zanzibar, our “pres—ent, is following orders. :0)
“I am not an American (I am an African living in Africa). I have access to Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN International, CCTV and Euronews on my cable subscription (I used to have access to FoxNews, but I cancelled it).
Let me tell you frankly, Al Jazeera is leagues ahead of Fox News in terms of content.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2683622/posts?page=7#7
I don’t believe I understand the Egyptian situation as much as you misinterpret my position. I’m saying if the Egyptian protesters haven’t a better, coherent alternative to the status quo, they’ve a worse solution—in which case the _4 best butt out and at most threaten a withholding of our billions. Better to support protesters who offer a better, not a worse, alternative and who are rebelling against the enemies of the US and Israel, not against those who have cooperated with us. To push, as Obama’s team has, the MB and vouch for their peacefulness is the last thing we shgould have done. I also wouldn’t provide free war services in support of the MB and Al Kaeda in Libya. My view is that we should stay out of all such severely misguided countries’ business as much as possible. I’d come to the aid of those who would improve their countries’ governance. Develop our own energy resources and reward good behavior, not bad.
But its arbiters will be those born before, who can remember the polite and cultured society that ruled Iran under the Pahlevis, all of which was trashed by those ninth-century mouth-breathing throwbacks.
I also worry whenever I see opinion that seems to "write off" the Turks: there is still a plurality there, including most of the military, who are guided and illuminated by the legacy of the Ataturk, who had no illusions about Islamists and religiopolitical mystics. Ataturk had known the corrupt old Turkey of the Porte and the regime of the Young Turks, too, and had pretty much seen it all. The people who follow his leadership still have a lot to offer the West, but they did play the demographic game of letting lots of Turks migrate to central Europe and send back remittances, which is a form of economic mining of other economies.
It seems to me that by threatening Europe with an embrace of Islamism, Erdogan seems to be unaware he'd also be threatening a strong source of national income. Put differently, all that Turks living in central and western Europe need is to make themselves such a pain in the ass as would-be vanguards of some latter-day Mahometan conquest of Europe, that the Europeans finally expel them in self-defense.
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