Posted on 02/25/2011 6:41:24 AM PST by La Lydia
"Utah issues 3 types of driver licenses: one for citizens, one for non-citizens who are here legally, and one for illegal aliens. I’m running a bill to eliminate the license for illegal aliens. Here, you can see the documentation that must be presented for each category of license. Citizens present birth certificates or passports. Legal non-citizens present documentation which required biometric information. Much to the contrary, illegal aliens merely present documentation that can be easily forged. Thus, along with concerns that the Utah Driving Privilege Card (DPC) creates a magnet for illegal aliens (only 3 other states offer such a license), a very real concern exists that the DPC creates a pathway for easy creation of a false identity."
If Utah has stopped issuing drivers' licenses to illegals, why is this state senator trying to introduce a law stopping it?
The Utah DMV link you provided was dated 2010. It is obvious that these rules apply to legal citizens and legal non-ctitizens, not illegals. It is the third license that is in question. I see nothing that indicates that Utah has stopped issuing the DPC.
Ah yes. The corrupt Utah Senate. Keep that human trafficking flowing boys!
This law pretends to address illegal immigration while actually encouraging it.
I am a retired diplomat. I have lived in 9 different countries for a total of 25 years and have driven in everyone of them. No country issues driver's licenses to people who cannot prove that they are legally in the country.
Rules on foreigners driving vary from country to country. Status of forces agreements, reciprocity, etc. affect what licenses are issued.
Utah is a definite exception with its issuance of DPCs. It is de facto recognition of an illegal's legal status in Utah. They should be arrested and deported, not issued driver's licenses. Utah is in a sense offering sanctuary to these people.
The link I gave you was for the DPC. Utah uses the DPC, for those who are not citizens. I already explained that. How about you show either the law, or give me the names of the “driver’s license” you think Utah is giving to illegals, and show where it DOESN’T require identity documents to get. I’ve shown you twice that it is required. OR you can call and try and see what you can find out.
The law changed and went into effect OVER a year ago. It hasn’t changed, so there isn’t a change in the existing webpage to indicate the need for a new webpage. Instead of citing third hand statements to try and make your argument, show a law, or an official list of criteria. OTherwise, you’re making statements about “fact” without providing anything more than conjecture.
“I am a retired diplomat. I have lived in 9 different countries for a total of 25 years and have driven in everyone of them. No country issues driver’s licenses to people who cannot prove that they are legally in the country.”
This is anecdote. Here’s a link to information about the International Driving Permit, created precisely for acceptance by goverments in place of meeting individual countries’ driving requirements:
http://moving.about.com/od/internationalmoves/a/driving_permit.htm
“Rules on foreigners driving vary from country to country. Status of forces agreements, reciprocity, etc. affect what licenses are issued.”
This is true, but only agrees with what I had said.
“Utah is a definite exception with its issuance of DPCs. It is de facto recognition of an illegal’s legal status in Utah. They should be arrested and deported, not issued driver’s licenses.”
This is conjecture and based only on your opinion.
“Utah is in a sense offering sanctuary to these people.”
While that may be true, and while I disagree with the conclusion, it can’t be drawn from anything you’ve presented so far.
I read the link. This is not about issuing official state licenses "for those who are not citizens," but rather about those who can't prove they are legally here. Here is the language from the link:
Individuals who are unable to establish legal/lawful presence and who are ineligible for a US Social Security Number.
The law changed and went into effect OVER a year ago. It hasn’t changed, so there isn’t a change in the existing webpage to indicate the need for a new webpage. Instead of citing third hand statements to try and make your argument, show a law, or an official list of criteria. OTherwise, you’re making statements about “fact” without providing anything more than conjecture.
Let's cut to the chase. This is about the DPCs. They need to be eliminated, which is why bills will be introduced to do so. By issuing such documents, Utah is complicit in aiding and abetting illegal behavior, i.e., they are acting as a sanctuary state.
The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 defined the legal relationship between the federal government and local governments with regard to the enforcement of immigration statutes. Specifically, the Act of 1996 states the following without equivocation:
Notwithstanding any other provision of Federal, State, or local law, a Federal, State, or local government entity or official may not prohibit or in any way restrict any government entity or official from sending to or receiving from the Immigration and Naturalization Service information regarding the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual.
Sanctuary cities are against the law. In fact they violate two federal statutes, i.e., Title 8 Section 1373 and Title 8 Section 1644 of the U.S. Code. Those statutes say in plain English that a city or state may not have a policy that prohibits its officers from communicating with the federal government about a person’s immigration status.
When U.S. cities and even entire states declare themselves to be "sanctuaries" for illegal aliens, they act outside the law, and by their actions could be charged with a felony for each violation of federal law by "concealing, harboring, or sheltering illegal aliens.
Sanctuary cities and states demonstrate a complete contempt for the laws of the United States, a contempt that threatens to undermine the Republic. Among those residing in U.S. sanctuary cities are sleeper terrorists, criminals, and others who have utter disregard for our laws and the public safety of American citizens and legal residents of this nation.
Ping!
"According to the American Automotive Association (AAA), this card is recognized by over 150 countries, and is a special license for tourists, authorized by a UN treaty, to allow motorists to drive vehicles in international traffic without any tests or applications. It is proof that the holder possesses a valid driver's license issued by their country of residence."
It is not anecdotal to state that countries do not issue driver's licenses to people who lack the legal presence to be there. That is the point. Can you name one country, aside from the US, where someone can get an official driver's license without being able to prove legal presence? I'll save you the research. There are none. And that includes Mexico and Canada.
“Can you name one country, aside from the US, where someone can get an official driver’s license without being able to prove legal presence?”
Nothing in the article says anyone is getting an “Official U.S. Driver’s License.” Nor did I ever say anything about anyone without a legal presence. The problem is that you’re flailing to make the point that Utah, and not this Mexican official, is attempting to make the illegals legitimate. I’m done arguing your unsourced blatantly false opinion about driver’s licenses.
In any event, it’s a shame that Mark Shurtleff, (Whom I did NOT vote for), of the Republican party is for this bill because it would let the illegals come “out of the shadows.” It’s also noteworthy that this bill would have gone no where, but that one of the committee members who is against it wanted it to be publicly debated, in an attempt, I hope, to show the true colors of the other politicians in government.
The fact is that illegals are a problem, and a big enough one at that, that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise those who harbor them. Unfortunately there are bleeding hearts and traitors in every state, and they must be rooted out. Before that can be done, they have to be on record in regards to their positions. This vote will do that, whether intended or not. The fact is, that Utah does not issue drivers license to anyone without proper documentation which includes a SSN or Federal Issued Tax ID number, IN ADDITION to other identity requirements, in spite your desire to rant about it.
I’m done responding to your windmill tilting, have a good day.
Better than Muslims - I guess.
Lamanites dear, Lamanites...
Give me a break. The states issue driver's license, not the USG with certain exceptions. The point is that Utah is issuing driver's licenses to people who cannot prove their legal presence in the US, i.e. the DPC. I am using your sources and that of a current Utah state senator who is trying to eliminate the DPC.
The fact is, that Utah does not issue drivers license to anyone without proper documentation which includes a SSN or Federal Issued Tax ID number, IN ADDITION to other identity requirements, in spite your desire to rant about it.
Anyone can get an ITIN. ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs are for federal tax reporting only, and are not intended to serve any other purpose. IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers (SSNs). An ITIN does not authorize work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit.
You seem to be dancing around the issue. I am a member of a grassroots immigration group that lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond. I have been engaged with this issue fulltime for the past four years at the federal and state level. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining outside. Utah needs to eliminate the DPC. Maryland finally came around last year. Washington, New Mexico, and Utah need to stop issuing official state driver's licenses, no matter what euphemism you use for them. You are defending the indefensible. Anyone who knows anything about the immigration issue, understands what Utah is doing.
I’m done responding to your windmill tilting, have a good day.
LOL. Facts are stubborn things.
Yeah Barry is such a girl...
it is recognized as valid by more than 100 countries when used in conjunction with a valid driver's license from your home country. However, it clearly states that law enforcement people have the right to demand your passport, visa or other documents certifying your legal entry and presence in the country in addition.
I cannot speak for other countries but Japan greatly frowns on people using this International Driving Permit as anything other than a temporary measure on a short-term visit.
If you are or expect to stay in the country long-term, they expect you to get a valid Japanese license, the application for which also expects you to prove legal residency in the country. There may be exceptions for people with valid diplomatic credentials. I do not know. I never was one.
But if it is found that you are not in Japan legally, you are in the slammer until deportation can be arranged.
A Canadian acquaintance of mine discovered this the hard way when the flight he was to fly out on was canceled, the last valid day of his visa. When he reported to immigration the very next day for his departure flight, it was noticed that his visa was expired. He spent a couple hours in detention until his story checked out. The Japanese immigration cops were polite and even fed him a meal, but he was not released until they were satisfied his technical visa violation was not deliberate. Good thing he went to the airport early as he barely made his flight out.
How many more ways can we ask legislators everywhere to understand that the I-9 form MUST be filled out correctly to get a job in the USA.????
This is Federal law.
As a bookkeeper, I had to have many an employee fill it out & give me the correct & valid documents the form asks for.
Trying to create a separate type of eligibility for ‘illegal workers’ in Utah is just plain wrong.
Last I knew- the fine for hiring an illegal person for a job was as high as $5000 per day per employee chrged to the employer4.
This kind of action would be a magnet for the illegals.
Robles should be stripped of her position and indicted for false swearing when she naturalized, as well as being prosecuted for being an unregistered foreign agent.
The International Driver’s license is for tourists, not permanent residents of a country. And if the authorities find that you are in the country illegally, they will deport or arrest you regardless of whether you hold an international driver’s license or not. Utah should not be issuing official recognition of the presence of illegals in the state essentially legitimizing their status. They should be reporting them to ICE, not giving them DPCs. Simple as that.
I agree.
True story. Before the State of Tennessee finally begin cracking down on this type of crap, it was actually easier for an illegal alien to get licensed than a U.S. Citizen moving back from abroad. I had an IDL issued from Japan, a valid Japanese driver's licence (much tougher to get than one from a Banana Republic, I guarantee you) and a valid U.S. Passport.
There was a large group of Hondourans in front of me getting licensed with an IDL, a Hondouran passport and driver's license only. I was denied because I hadn't brought in a social security card, a document not required of illegal aliens.
There was a major incident in Tennessee about a decade or so ago when a Latin American gang was involved in a serious crime wave. All had been enabled (even attracted) to stay in Tennessee illegally by this loophole in the state law. There was a major public outcry and the legislature closed the loophole. I hope Utah doesn't have to experience a similar crime wave to do likewise.
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