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Report: Seizing of Pirate Chiefs Questioned in Killings of Four Americans (FBI screw up?)
Fox News ^ | February 24, 2011

Posted on 02/24/2011 9:27:43 AM PST by Pan_Yan

...

The New York Times reports that an FBI hostage-rescue negotiator aboard the U.S.S. Sterett came to believe the two Somalis were not serious when they boarded the vessel. Once those men were taken into custody, U.S. officials told the pirates on the yacht -- called the Quest -- to send over someone they could negotiate with.

The events that immediately followed have been sharply contested and raises questions about the decision to detain the pirate leaders, the Times reports.

American officials said the pirates on the yacht seemed relieved — even “exceptionally calm” — when they were told their senior commander was cooling his heels in a Navy brig.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bibles; fbi; piracy; pirates; somalia; somalipirates
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1 posted on 02/24/2011 9:27:46 AM PST by Pan_Yan
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To: Pan_Yan

Primary error: thinking of piracy as Law Enforcement problem rather than a military problem. Everything else devoloved from there, IMO.


2 posted on 02/24/2011 9:30:42 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: Pan_Yan

if we had a sensible administration we’d bring back keel hauling and hanging. Not to mention having a few thousand UAVs looking for pirates.


3 posted on 02/24/2011 9:31:04 AM PST by utherdoul
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To: Pan_Yan

Earth to FBI: You are not dealing with normal criminals. They are wackos with a terrorist frame of mind.


4 posted on 02/24/2011 9:32:25 AM PST by Pecos (Liberty and Honor will not die on my watch.)
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To: Pan_Yan

These murders are the “fault” of only one group of people: the pirates.

Anybody, no matter who, can make mistakes when negotiating with kidnappers, because you never know what is going through their crazy minds. The only “mistake” I think was made was to treat this like a kidnapping, just a normal criminal act, and not like piracy on the high seas, which is something that requires a military response and not a law-enforcement response (other than good old military justice solution of a speedy trial and swift execution).

That said, the death of these hostages was not the fault of the FBI, the Navy, or anybody but the pirates.


5 posted on 02/24/2011 9:33:00 AM PST by livius
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To: Pan_Yan

All pirates should be shot at sea. PERIOD!


6 posted on 02/24/2011 9:34:14 AM PST by lormand (A Government who robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul)
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To: Pan_Yan

Someone needs to explain to the world why this has been permitted to go on for going on a decade? How difficult would it be to set up decoys and encounters with 1000 pirates and then take them out?


7 posted on 02/24/2011 9:36:40 AM PST by apoliticalone (Conservatism is about the USA, not the international corporations and bankers)
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To: Pan_Yan

Great, we have Deputy Barney Fife in charge of negotiating with real pirates as if they were relatives of Ernest T. Bass. I think I just outed my age:<


8 posted on 02/24/2011 9:37:22 AM PST by crazyhorse691 (Now that the libs are in power dissent is not only unpatriotic, but, it is also racist.)
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To: livius

You are wrong, this was a command failure. This is not the proper role of the FBI. The dead are dead because of Obama and those in official positions who tolerate him.


9 posted on 02/24/2011 9:37:38 AM PST by bvw
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To: Pecos
"You are not dealing with normal criminals. They are wackos with a terrorist frame of mind."

I wouldn't agree with that, at all. They are quite clearly your run-of-the-mill criminals. They aren't pirating to advance some 14th Century religious belief, or to protest against some political policy. They're pirating for cash, which is the motive of virtually every criminal.

Whether it's kidnapping for ransom in Columbia, stagecoach robberies on the great American frontier, or piracy on the Indian ocean, those crimes are all perpetrated by criminals, not people with a political agenda.

10 posted on 02/24/2011 9:38:02 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: livius

How much of great pension and travel expense with those FBI Agents end up with? Is their end dead bleeding on the deck of boat hijacked in the wide ocean? No way! They’ll get promotions and pensions!

It must have been a really cool and fun trip for them. Exotic travel, excitement! But they don’t get hurt. They get PERKS!


11 posted on 02/24/2011 9:40:53 AM PST by bvw
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To: OldDeckHand

Sure we should execute pirates, but isn’t it Negotiation 101 as to what sort of signal you send when you detain the emissary?


12 posted on 02/24/2011 9:41:04 AM PST by Buchal ("Two wings of the same bird of prey . . .")
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To: Pan_Yan

The Gray Lady needs to stop looking for people to blame. Even my 4 year old understands that pirates are bad people and that is why they walk the plank.

The mistakes, if any, were not by the hostage negotiators who were dealing with a bunch of pot smoking paranoid heavily armed leaderless hooligans. Rather the mistake was the Obama administration’s failure to proactively flush out the pirates from their ports and send them to Allah.

We have “no fly” zones, it should not be too difficult to create a “no boating zone.” You enter the zone, you will die.


13 posted on 02/24/2011 9:41:24 AM PST by KingofZion
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To: T-Bird45

“FBI screwup?”

No, USN ROE screwup.

The legal and military aspects of eradicating piracy have been well understood for centuries.

When pirates hoist the black flag (or no flag) they are signing their death warrants - and the death warrants of their families, their ships, and their bases on land.


14 posted on 02/24/2011 9:42:18 AM PST by Jim Noble (House GOP: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.)
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To: Pan_Yan

I think this kind of retrograde navel-gazing is frequently useless except to establish where the blame will be placed.


15 posted on 02/24/2011 9:43:14 AM PST by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: Pan_Yan

One fletcher class destroyer from WW II,,, complete with an authentic naval officer,, that’s all we need. Fbi,,, captains who worry about diversity and sensitivity training.
Not to mention,,, if their home port has 30 hostage ships, why is it mit closed too anything, including fishing boats?


16 posted on 02/24/2011 9:44:55 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Pan_Yan

FBI ignorance on full display, this surpasses the stupid of Waco and ruby ridge.


17 posted on 02/24/2011 9:46:25 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: apoliticalone

“How difficult would it be to set up decoys and encounters with 1000 pirates and then take them out?”

For this clueless admin, very difficult.


18 posted on 02/24/2011 9:46:57 AM PST by Rennes Templar (Karma is coming.)
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To: lormand

“All pirates should be shot at sea. PERIOD!”

That would be a waste of ammunition. A rope tied to an anchor would be sufficient.


19 posted on 02/24/2011 9:48:51 AM PST by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: Buchal
'Sure we should execute pirates, but isn’t it Negotiation 101 as to what sort of signal you send when you detain the emissary?"

I would reserve comment about what the negotiator should or should not have done. First, I'm reticent to believe anything that comes from the New York Times. And second, I'm hesitant to second-guess the on-scene negotiator without access to all the facts he surely would have had.

My point was/is that there is a role for the FBI when American citizens are being held against their will. And, it would be ridiculous not to try negotiate a favorable outcome, before electing to directly engage the hostage-takers. Boarding a ship on the open sea is much riskier than entering a bank or a home in a hostage situation, and look at how LE is loathe to do that. They won't unless they believe their is an immediate danger to the hostages.

20 posted on 02/24/2011 9:50:19 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: Jim Noble

At the Virginia ratification debate Patrick Henry spoke on “due process” for terrorists:

“He was an enemy to the human name. Those who declare war against the human race may be struck out of existence as soon as they are apprehended. He was not executed according to those beautiful legal ceremonies which are pointed out by the laws in criminal cases. The enormity of his crimes did not entitle him to it. I am truly a friend to legal forms and methods; but, sir, the occasion warranted the measure.
A pirate, an outlaw, or a common enemy to all mankind, may be put to death at any time. It is justified by the laws of nature and nations. “


21 posted on 02/24/2011 9:57:08 AM PST by mrsmith
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To: Pan_Yan

I did not know the FBI is now an international police force. Nice to know /sarc Clinton and his fools started a lot of this, IMO, but Obama takes everything to a whole new level. We should just say that we will kill pirates no matter what, even if the hostages die. Then, what would be the point of kidnapping them?


22 posted on 02/24/2011 9:57:32 AM PST by PghBaldy (Like the Ft Hood Killer, James Earl Ray was just stressed when he killed MLK Jr.)
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To: lormand

Why don’t we put a bunch of Navy Seals on boats that look like easy targets and send them into that area? They could draw the pirates in and blow them out of the water.


23 posted on 02/24/2011 9:58:07 AM PST by peeps36 (America is being destroyed by filthy traitors in the political establishment)
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To: DesertRhino

If Obama’s to blame - then he needs to say how he will fix it for the next time.
If FBI’s to blame - then they need to say how they will do differently for the next time.
If pirates are to be blamed - well, .... how will they do it next time...
Because it will be a next time...Somebody better fix this...


24 posted on 02/24/2011 9:58:58 AM PST by savage woman
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To: OldDeckHand
A couple hundred years ago we had problems with pirates. Then we hung or killed everyone of them caught. After a while, pirates that deemed the chance of dying not worth the chance of success gave up the pirate life. No more pirates. It would work now. Once their pirate buddies seen the pirate boats leave and never return they would also give up. No quarter for pirates. Sink them on sight. Might lose some hostages, but after a while people who are potential hostages would understand the rick of entering an area where they may become hostages. Poof, no more hostages.
25 posted on 02/24/2011 10:00:04 AM PST by lynn4303
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To: OldDeckHand

Bringing the FBI to the indian ocean makes a much sense as calling a navy officer to a bank heist. They are no good,,, furthermore, they’ll turn on their host and prosecute them if they feel the need. Useless,,,


26 posted on 02/24/2011 10:00:20 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Pan_Yan
The New York Times reports

That says it all, typical anti-U.S. bias from the press. Those poor little pirates./sarcasm

27 posted on 02/24/2011 10:01:22 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: forgotten man
That would be a waste of ammunition. A rope tied to an anchor would be sufficient.

Anchors are MUCH more costly than bullets! But the rope is pretty cheap- and reusable! Hang 'em.

28 posted on 02/24/2011 10:01:39 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: forgotten man
That would be a waste of ammunition. A rope tied to an anchor would be sufficient.

Anchors are MUCH more costly than bullets! But the rope is pretty cheap- and reusable! Hang 'em.

29 posted on 02/24/2011 10:01:55 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: T-Bird45

Bingo.


30 posted on 02/24/2011 10:02:11 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Jim Noble

I fully agree that the military of every branch generally has a screwed-up ROE that is preventing true victory. I believe my point is corollary to a screwed-up ROE by having FBI involved and compounded by DOD lawyers using the ROE as a cudgel over military commanders. A properly employed military force that is given mission-type orders (”Bad guys! Sic-em!”) will achieve results. Best example: SOF in early Afghanistan engagements.


31 posted on 02/24/2011 10:03:27 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: bvw
correct. the fault is with the idiots that concoct a policy that makes no sense and gets people killed
32 posted on 02/24/2011 10:04:03 AM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: PghBaldy
"I did not know the FBI is now an international police force."

The FBI is not an international police force, but the FBI does have agents stationed in dozens, perhaps more than a 100 countries. Over 50 of our embassies has an FBI legal attaché office, staffed with at least one FBI agent. We have agents embedded with dozens of allied police organizations, and those agents work on police investigations that deal either directly with American citizen victims and/or criminals, or crimes against American-owned interests abroad.

The FBI is not a global police force, but it is an American federal police force with a global footprint.

33 posted on 02/24/2011 10:06:21 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: JimRed

Throw them overboard “Sharks have to eat too!”.; to paraphrase Josie Wales.


34 posted on 02/24/2011 10:07:50 AM PST by GOYAKLA (Flush Congress in 2010 & 2012)
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To: DesertRhino
"Bringing the FBI to the indian ocean makes a much sense as calling a navy officer to a bank heist."

Sure it does. The UN Navy does not have assets trained to deal with hostage negotiation. That is a the job of a federal law enforcement agency. If not the FBI, then it would likely fall to NCIS.

35 posted on 02/24/2011 10:10:09 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: OldDeckHand
I wouldn't agree with that, at all. They are quite clearly your run-of-the-mill criminals. They aren't pirating to advance some 14th Century religious belief, or to protest against some political policy. They're pirating for cash, which is the motive of virtually every criminal.

Whether it's kidnapping for ransom in Columbia, stagecoach robberies on the great American frontier, or piracy on the Indian ocean, those crimes are all perpetrated by criminals, not people with a political agenda.

Might be useful to expand your horizons a bit and start doing a little due dilligence before spouting off with such inanities.

It has LONG been known that the Pirates in Somalia are either Islamic Jihadists themselves or supporters thereto.

See: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31458

36 posted on 02/24/2011 10:13:06 AM PST by Conservative Vermont Vet ((One of ONLY 37 Conservatives in the People's Republic of Vermont. Socialists and Progressives All))
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To: T-Bird45

“Mission-type orders”

Like: “Sweep the seas for England!”


37 posted on 02/24/2011 10:15:11 AM PST by Jim Noble (House GOP: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.)
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To: lynn4303
"A couple hundred years ago we had problems with pirates. No more pirates."

There have been pirates since there has been commercial maritime activity. Contrary to apparent popular opinion, our "pirate problem" has never gone away. Piracy has existed, and continued to exist LONG after the Barbary Wars, even in those very same waters.

I don't think you realize what the size of the body of water we're talking about is. The pirates operate far beyond literal waters, extending their reach to an area that far surpasses the size of the United States. Our Navy is just not that big.

No one is saying that pirates shouldn't be dealt with harshly, but to opine that we're going to sacrifice the hostages in the name of the greater good, is farcical. Pirates are criminals. There is a role for us federal police agencies, like the FBI hear, especially when there's an active-hostage crisis.

38 posted on 02/24/2011 10:17:47 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: peeps36

I think the British used a similiar technique against the U-Boats in WWI. They were called Q-Boats. They were freighters with hidden guns that blew away German subs on the surface.


39 posted on 02/24/2011 10:19:49 AM PST by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
"It has LONG been known that the Pirates in Somalia are either Islamic Jihadists themselves or supporters thereto."

Oh wow, you read that on blog, no less. I spent 25-years in navy law enforcement. My "horizons" are expanded just fine. Thanks anyways.

I don't care what god the Somali Pirates pray to, just like I don't care what god the Colombian drug lords, or wild west bandits prayed to. They, like the pirates, are engaging in a purely for-profit criminal enterprise.

40 posted on 02/24/2011 10:21:37 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: OldDeckHand
Whether it's kidnapping for ransom in Columbia, stagecoach robberies on the great American frontier, or piracy on the Indian ocean, those crimes are all perpetrated by criminals, not people with a political agenda.

That said, they are criminals engaging in piracy -- which is in effect an unlawful act of warfare without the official declaration of war by any nation/state. As such, they should not be treated pursuant to any criminal justice statutes but rather as unlawful combatants subject to summary execution.

41 posted on 02/24/2011 10:21:55 AM PST by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: livius
That said, the death of these hostages was not the fault of the FBI, the Navy, or anybody but the pirates.

The pirates pulled the trigger. What set this whole thing in motion was the terminal stupidity of the yacht crew members. They left the relative security of a group of fellow sailors that were in a small flotilla organized to provide safe passage thru these treacherous waters. In my opinion no American lives should have been jeopardized to assist in their rescue. Had no one responded chances are they would still be alive.

42 posted on 02/24/2011 10:23:10 AM PST by BluH2o
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To: Pan_Yan

I feel the Israeli’s deal withhostage situations in the proper way.

The hostages are considered dead when captured and they go in to take out the hostage takers.

That is the only way to deal with them.

Pay them and you will see them again.

Wherever these captured ships they have now are docked ,an International team should go and release the ships and what is left of the hostage’s and destroy anything and everything in their way or that aids the hostage takers.


43 posted on 02/24/2011 10:25:24 AM PST by Venturer
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To: bvw

Exactly.

What’s being missed here is that last time, a Navy Captain was in charge, and had full operational command. He made a unilateral call that the hostage was in danger and gave the sniper team the green light to kill the Pirates.

At the time, an E-mail filtered out, supposedly from a Dev Group guy, who said Obama was trying to screw things up, so the Captain and the SEALs stuck their necks out, made the unilateral call, and took care of business.

I’m guessing Obama learned his lesson. This time he got the FBI there immediately, and gave them operational control. Clearly his intent was to prevent our military from making any unilateral calls to save these people.

I am always fascinated by the lengths to which Liberals will go to betray their own people, and take the sides of our enemies. It would appear that after last time, Obama actually prepped a plan so if pirates ever did this again, our military couldn’t deal with it properly.


44 posted on 02/24/2011 10:26:07 AM PST by AnonymousConservative (Click my Nick - see the evolutionary origin of Liberalism)
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To: forgotten man

“All pirates should be shot at sea. PERIOD!”

That would be a waste of ammunition. A rope tied to an anchor would be sufficient.


Bullets are cheaper than anchors!


45 posted on 02/24/2011 10:27:16 AM PST by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: OldDeckHand; DesertRhino
Looks like the FBI guy got fed up with pirate BS too quick ~ hence locking him in the brig.

Of course there were still 18 other pirates holding the missionaries hostage.

If the objective was to free the hostages, and not just punish the pirates, I think the book says you have to tease the pirates along a little bit longer ~ maybe even invite them to dinner with the captain ~ whatever it takes to separate the pirates from the hostages.

Once you've got them separated then you turn on the pirates and kill them all.

46 posted on 02/24/2011 10:28:27 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: OldDeckHand
The pirates operate far beyond literal waters, extending their reach to an area that far surpasses the size of the United States.

Sorry: I don't understand. Do you perhaps mean littoral (i.e., "coastal") waters?

Regards,

47 posted on 02/24/2011 10:28:52 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: VRWCmember
". As such, they should not be treated pursuant to any criminal justice statutes but rather as unlawful combatants subject to summary execution. "

Whether they should or shouldn't be is wholly irrelevant. We do have laws in this country, and our Armed Forces are compelled to follow those laws. 18 U.S.C. § 1651 demands that "robbery on the high sea" be punished as a criminal act, with a maximum punishment possible of life in prison.

48 posted on 02/24/2011 10:30:21 AM PST by OldDeckHand (So long as we have SEIU, who needs al-Qaeda?)
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To: Pan_Yan
The FBI agent involved was a hostage negotiator from a special team based at Quantico, Va., who was experienced in both domestic and international hostage crises, a law enforcement official told the Times Wednesday.

The trouble comes from Obama's policy of treating international piracy as a law enforcement problem rather than a naval problem, with ALL that THAT implies.

49 posted on 02/24/2011 10:31:46 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: forgotten man
There were hundreds of U-boats destroyed along the US East Coast ~ a variety of techniques were used. Eventually there were no more U-boats.

The singular solution in every case was to poke a hole in the hull!

50 posted on 02/24/2011 10:31:49 AM PST by muawiyah
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